Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 6)
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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hu tao felt the need the back up her RationalMadman town read with something more substantial because she was being called out for TMIing the read, so she went and looked at a game or said she did but didn't actually critically think about whether RationalMadman's meta is indicative of anything for this game-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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While I was worse and less good at staying properly level-headed back then than I am now, it is a massive compliment you saying and meaning this (though if you are scum it may be untrue).In post 973, Elements wrote:
Yeah sorry that was kinda my pointIn post 972, Thomith wrote:
They were also years ago.In post 970, Elements wrote:
Did you look at the town games? They're just as differentIn post 969, Hu Tao wrote:
He replaced into the one I readIn post 966, Elements wrote:
you found one that wasn't a replace in?In post 962, Hu Tao wrote: I quickly skimmed through a RM game just in case where he was scum and yeah he is different here.
I had a look and he's different in every game on this site
I feel like my play as town and scum is wildly different to when I last played in 2011/2012.
The past town games are just as different as the past red games so looking at any of them doesn't really tell us anything
I do doubt that it's meant as a compliment but it is. This is the apex dream of a competent mafia player, to not have to lurk to achieve that but actively participate in games and be unreadable relatively. That being said, I do have tells I think. I tend to fundamentally tunnel more as Town (as opposed to just incidentally tunneling while not pushing as hard for the person I'm voting) as scum. Now that I've said that you can be sure I'll adjust it in future games if there are any.-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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" (as opposed to just incidentally tunneling while not pushing as hard for the person I'm voting) as scum. "
The ) is meant to be after 'as scum' not before it after 'voting'.-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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For any interested here are my updated reads. This time I'll do it as groupings rather than just eliminating players from my scumpile and exploring the rest.
To avoid mod's eye getting caught by the message, I will use italics instead of Bold for the Titles.
Strong Town- Hu Tao (the snowball nature of her tryharding this game vs not caring at all and defending me among other things when I see 0 scum motive to do so in the situation as well as her eagerness to push on Dannflor and keep pushing make me strongly townread her).
- Grovyle (I can't fully explain this one in 'true logic' but there is something about the combination of not giving a damn yet giving a damn about things that actually matter that is adding up to be a very strong Town vibe)
Weak(er) Town- Thomith (it began around exactly when the bandwagon on him escalated how he handled it and everything after, including significant paranoia that I had partner-framed him as Scum there, it's much more about his later posts than earlier posts in the DP)
- Dannflor (there is just something about how he's writing things, going about this an operating I feel he'd be annoyed with me as either alignment so him not faking that isn't the tell but he's using the anger to rush the DP and aggressively handle things, which is how Town tends to use anger unless they totally lurk or troll).
- camelCasedSnivy (out of the 3 people who made a proper wagon happen on Thomith, this was the first vote and best reasoned vote. There's also something to be said about Snivy's posts, I feel they accurately display talking to people to get things out of them rather than just posting for the sake of it)
- Gibdo, this is somewhat a gut/vibe read. I can't explain it very consciously in logic but there are tones in what he's saying, ways he went about things, the lack of letting go of voting me even when the wagon happened yet letting go when he rethought things and the fact I don't think he and his partner Awesomeming as a duo would lead on me. It isn't in the words he's saying but in things surrounding them and how he's gone about his lurky style.
Straight up can't read either at all or anymore (meaning they've both towntold and scumtold equally in the 'anymore' category)
Nickriviera, drippinggoofball, saltiestcactus
Everyone knows who my strongest scumread is. I've already justified it.
Those left are:
Elements and Black.
The problem is I do not believe it's a 3/3 thing to say it's Awesomeming, Elements and Black. This team feels wrong, I think the third is in my 3 nullreads instead and only 1 of Elements or Black is in the 3.
Black is not just scummy after replacing but I get significant psyche-read type hints that KJQ doesn't replace out there and then, not in that way not while actually leading on Hu Tao with a strong enough gutread as Town. It seems to me she didn't want to let her partners down, felt she couldn't bring her A game and replaced out.
However, I do see her doing that as Town as viable, especially if her feelings of negativity were stronger than she was letting on (not just struggling to get into the game but actively hating it). In fact if she was Town and felt Hu Tao, who I believe she has some history with based on interactions here, was scum and didn't feel good being on opposite sides on top of disliking the game there does seem to be reason to replace out as Town.
Elements has been antitown the entire DP in such overt ways I don't really know what to say. The problem is I know of players like this and they will absolutely do it as Town. Especially as she outed as vanilla Townie, it's got vibes of 'vote me off idgaf I am ready to rumble let's wagon everyone for the hell of it and ask RM to explain things over and over and over again for the lols'.-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Well this is false. I've self voted as town. Now you're just outing false reads. You've been in a game I've self voted. So now I know you're scum.In post 971, Dannflor wrote: I think Hu Tao would care more about being run up as town-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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For everyone else,
This is the game I was town and self voted. To prove Dann is lying. He was IN this game. So he's just caught lying.In post 155, Hu Tao wrote: I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.
VOTE: hu tao
She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Also, another thing. In this same game he said he didn't see the confidence I had in reads.
Yet this game he's saying he doesn't see the confidence I have in my RN read. If he was town he would have learned from these things and not tunnel and at least bring up this situation or think about it. He's just been tunneling mindlessly. This is not Town!DannIn post 139, Dannflor wrote: hu tao i'm struggling to believe your confidence in your notascum read is real
i don't understand the difference between notascum's entrance and KJQ's entrance for one-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Here from this game. Dann is not dumb, he knows what he's doing. If he was town he would reference this game or other games and have at least a little pause, but this game has been pretty much a tunnel and is very unlike town him.In post 619, Dannflor wrote:
I largely agree, and I've gone back and forth on Rational a bit myselfIn post 608, Gibdo wrote: I mostly agree, but I'm not comfortable writing off Rational as obvious town. If he's experienced as he has repeatedly claimed, it's still very possible he's just causing a huge scene now to mitigate suspicions on him later.
Right now, I've settled on him likely being town but I've had doubts
I think Hu Tao is expressing an unnatural amount of confidence because she *knows* Rational is town-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I've brought you all the evidence that Dann is scum this game, so can someone actually take it seriously. He's a good player, but he's been scummy in his contradicting-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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this is exactly why I think your behavior this game is offIn post 979, Hu Tao wrote:
Well this is false. I've self voted as town. Now you're just outing false reads. You've been in a game I've self voted. So now I know you're scum.In post 971, Dannflor wrote: I think Hu Tao would care more about being run up as town-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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like the reason and emotion around why you self voted was because people weren't believing you and were suspecting you
conversely, in this game, you have a lot of bravado and seem to be trying to act like you don't care about the wagon on you
I think you'd care a lot more specifically because you cared more in that game-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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even now, I don't feel like you actually care about your scum read on me when you compare how you're behaving now versus how you behaved with your naerys scum read in that game-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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You are 5/7. You have to either out or vote with a wagon that can defeat yours. I am not budging, not onto Dann yet. I believe he is Town and is agitated and not thinking straight. If he is scum, I wholeheartedly buy the idea he's been what I've primarily seen Elements as and is the wagon blazer distracting from Awesomeming.In post 983, Hu Tao wrote: I've brought you all the evidence that Dann is scum this game, so can someone actually take it seriously. He's a good player, but he's been scummy in his contradicting-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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For her to have more fire she'd have to be as assertive as I am and that's not her nature. She is being fiery, she's just failed to build a wagon on you. You're not scaling her fierceness or aggression to her personality type.In post 987, Dannflor wrote: like where's the fire Hu Tao?-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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If she was the type to bite your head off, she would be doing it right now. It's her version of fighting back what she's been doing to you Dan.-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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From what I understand, Dann is saying he thinks your panic and crack under this level of pressure as Town to the point you'd self-vote. He believes you resisting it this well is a scumtell, not the other way around.In post 980, Hu Tao wrote: For everyone else,
This is the game I was town and self voted. To prove Dann is lying. He was IN this game. So he's just caught lying.In post 155, Hu Tao wrote: I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.
VOTE: hu tao
She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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you'd not your-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I don’t necessarily think Hu Tao would self vote again but I think there would be more passion or agitation behind her reaction to the whole gamestate
As it is 961 reads like false bravado-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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There are some contradictions in his logic but they're deeper and beyond voting you off. He said I was wrong on everything this game yet I townread him early on. He's gone from playing it very safe and cautious to haphazardly voting on any wagon Elements gets on or encouraging her to join him and end up now on you. He is a very scummy player in that sense but I believe this is a playstyle thing he'd do as either alignment and this early into a DP1 I'm not willing to read very many past games just to land my vote on somebody, I'll skimread/scan if they're in a recent or current game but that's about it (the reasoning is to not waste effort on a player who may well end up nightkilled anyway as that's a waste of my time and energy to invest into unless I literally have no scumreads in the game itself left).In post 983, Hu Tao wrote: I've brought you all the evidence that Dann is scum this game, so can someone actually take it seriously. He's a good player, but he's been scummy in his contradicting
How about this. You give me games where he's been Town that you believe show he acts very differently as Town. I'll read some of his DP1 there.-
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RationalMadman He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Do you not find it strange that while saying this, Awesomeing is trying to campaign for votes on you such as here? :In post 961, Hu Tao wrote:
Good news, I'm not being faded this gameIn post 950, awesomeming327 wrote: I do not want to fade hutao before getting dripping camel and salty to get a little more content inIn post 953, awesomeming327 wrote: Dr nick, what are you thoughts on hu tao? You said before that you scumread her right-
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Elements she/herBloopshe/her
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VOTE: DannflorI agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
All my completed games-
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DrNickRiviera He/HimGoonHe/Him
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Combo of feeling better about Thomith, and wanting Goof to do more, they are being a bit too passive for my liking
I have only seen her get real fired when she was scum and being on the verge of a limIn post 971, Dannflor wrote: I think Hu Tao would care more about being run up as townHI EVERYBODY!-
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camelCasedSnivy he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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