Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Glork]

Blah blah, on vacation, filler post.


Corio or Xtox are def the play today.

[Glork]

EBWOP: I'm still not really sure why there's a wagon on dahill -- it seems like the four votes currently on him are for things that I haven't thought to be a particularly big deal, though maybe I've just been tunnel-visioned on the two likely scumbaggoes. I'll check out dahill soon (as in, over N1 probably) and get back to you with a verdict.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

dahill1: 4 (Pathetric, charter, Coriolanus, Tuberkulos)
Xtoxm: 3 (Incognito, Yosarian2, dahill1)
Coriolanus: 3 (Glork, Assmaster, Rally Vincent)
Glork: 1 (Xtoxm)
Rally Vincent: 1 (Erratus Apathos)

Not Voting: 0

[Coriolanus]

as i was writing this, i noticed a general trend. you seem to be under the impression that i believe anything that's not scumhunting doesn't count as a contribution. you interpreted my post way, way too literally: one of my jobs is to hunt scum, yes, as opposed to defending myself against things i can't defend myself. that's because the defense would have been completely useless: i meant what i said. but that in no means makes scumhunting the only contribution a player can make. in my view, you're perpetuating this misconception on purpose. the fact is, most of the points you made were contributing something, it just wasn't obviously "scumhunting".
Point 1: there was no discussion to be had there. i told you i meant what i said, and i still do. i wasn't going to hack up a defense to nothing.
Point 2: then maybe you should bother to follow your own example. several of your posts state a position but don't "scumhunt".
Point 3: you quoted it! no, i don't write "SCUMHUNTING COMMENCES HERE:" as a heading to my posts, because i figure that if you're stupid enough to require it you shouldn't be playing this game. what you quoted was a joke, but as long as you didn't take it for one, i think this point is valid. it's stating a connection between yos and dahill.
Point 4: i was responding to a question. that's not a valid use of a post?
Point 5: i was responding to a question. that's not a valid use of a post?
Point 6: your first point is silly. there was simply nothing to defend. and i have been defending myself for a while now. and if i did defend myself, you'd criticize it for

not being scumhunting.

Point 7: Pathetric covered this well. my defense of the xtoxm wagon is a significant contribution. it was this point that caused me to write the introduction above. this is a valid piece of discussion that you're discounting for no reason.
Point 8: it's really divided into several points:
a. i already covered this before.
b. that's because it's

your

thought, not my thought.
c. what else was there to apply? screaming in all caps? that your forté, glork.
d. and not ONCE did you ask.
Point 9: still a valid contribution.
moving on to the next post.
Point 1: that's kind of your job there, buddy.
Point 2: again,

your

thought. i've stated why i support the dahill lynch. i'd also consider yosarian, because he's done nothing but restate his case for xtoxm over and over again, whipping and beating the horses, but the wagon won't move anywhere. but damnit, i want to see the dahill wagon go somewhere. and i might have, if you didn't make this game an obsession over what i've done. it's paralyzed my options.
Point 3: well, i actually don't know what the point of this is.

[Coriolanus]

I'd also say something more along the lines of Corio wants to make it publicly known that he's here and 'scumhunting' when I don't see the need to make it this known to everyone.

where have i done so?

how much experience do you have playing with Xtoxm? Are you in any way basing your read of him in this game off of the single Freedom Force game that the two of you played together? What was it about Xtoxm's reactions make you think he's "obviously town" as you mentioned below?:

One game, as his mason buddy, in Freedom Force. I am, somewhat. I think Xtoxm is town because of how awkward he was in the beginning of the game, suggesting someone who isn't taking instruction from anybody, and how quick he was to vote for himself. That takes balls that scum I think just wouldn't have.

Alright. I'll appease the Glorks of this game and write my thoughts on the

entire game

. I'll even clean up my language and write in capitals!

Dahill is scum because he hasn't made a single contribution to this game that I consider original. He's made it clear he agrees with Glork and Yosarian, and he's defended himself pretty well, but otherwise, he's completely stagnant. I wanted to bandwagon him because I wanted to get something out of him; now that I know I won't get something out of him, I want to proceed to a lynch.
Moving on to Yosarian seems natural. I think dahill being scum actually significantly lowers Yosarian's chances, because dahill would be interested in getting on Yos' good side. However, I hugely dislike Yos' presence on the Xotxm wagon. He built a nice case, but I think is was based on a large number of assumptions, which is why I followed up questioning those assumptions. He actually seems afraid of pursuing anyone else. It needs to be noted, however, that I rarely ever get Yos' alignment correctly.
In the scummy category is also charter, who's presence here is completely new but was brought about by your prodding of me. charter is all to willing to agree with you, and his posts are too infrequent for my tastes. I would just like to see more of him. I know this is a reversal of my original thoughts, but eh.
I'd like to see Incognito really strongly attack somebody. But I also need to know him better. Right now, he seems fine, but a bit distanced for me.
Arriving to you, Glork. I can't read you well. You're obnoxious in every game, but you get the job done, which makes it difficult. I'm biased by your unfortunately innaccurate attack on me. So I'm going to leave you be for now.
Primate is unfortunately not doing anything noteworthy to me. Nothing. He's half-assing in Assmaster. I would like to see him actually assemble a case against me similar to yours. This is primate, of course, that I'm talking about here. But anything's better than nothing.
My thoughts on Xtoxm and Pathetric are clear. Tuber is making legitimate contributions and is doing well for this game, so I think he's town. I honestly haven't looked into Rally Vincent at all.

There you go! The whole shebang. Alternatives to xtoxm and dahill include Yosarian, Primate, and perhaps Rally Vincent.

[Yosarian2]

I didn't say it is a bad thing. I just think that you focus too much on Xtoxm, even as he isn't willing to defend himself any further. Either we lynch him or not, but for now he is dealt with. We could still use the remaining time for other things.

So...you would focus

less

on someone because they're refusing to defend themselves?

That dosn't make sense. You focus more and more on them, until they start defending themselves and making sense.

[Xtoxm]

Xtoxm, who is your number 2 suspect besides glork?

Yos. They're pretty much on level pegging, actually. My 3rd i'm not so sure about. I'd have no qualm with Dah at this point.

Patrick:

Yeh, my last 3 posts had little direct game relevance. So? Do you have a problem with that? I asked when deadline was because I wanted to know.

And i'll have you know I put a great deal of thought into my games. Most of my games, anyway.

[Yosarian2]

Xtoxm, who is your number 2 suspect besides glork?

Yos. They're pretty much on level pegging, actually. My 3rd i'm not so sure about. I'd have no qualm with Dah at this point.

Patrick:

Yeh, my last 3 posts had little direct game relevance. So? Do you have a problem with that? I asked when deadline was because I wanted to know.

And i'll have you know I put a great deal of thought into my games. Most of my games, anyway.

So, why have you still refused to defend yourself, or answer my question, or respond to any of the points against you? Do you think you can just accuse the people who suspect you of being scum and that means you don't have to respond to their accusations?

[Xtoxm]

I have nothing to defend against.

I don't think I understand your other point.

[Yosarian2]

I have nothing to defend against.

Um...how about all the reasons I gave for suspecting you?

1. You need to explain why you thought i was "assuming you were town" or whatever, when my post pretty clearly said nothing of the sort

2. You need to explain the contradiction between your claim that you knew no one would hammer you, and your logic that Glork was scummy because he thought someone would hammer you when he put you at -1.

It might also help your if you explain why on earth you thought it was a good idea to claim vanillia just because you were at -2, or give us some kind of reason why we might not want to lynch you. Or, heck, make a rational argument for why you think Glork is scum. If you want to live, you need to do something useful.

[Xtoxm]

So Yos either isn't reading, or is just plain BSing. I might change my vote if he continues...

[Coriolanus]

So Yos either isn't reading, or is just plain BSing. I might change my vote if he continues...

please answer the points in 309.

[Xtoxm]

No. All have been previously addressed.

[Coriolanus]

then just quote where you have addressed them.

[Yosarian2]

So Yos either isn't reading, or is just plain BSing. I might change my vote if he continues...

Um....wtf are you talking about?

No. All have been previously addressed.

No, they clearly have not. The closest you came was to repeat your initial point and say again:

Yos is scummy because his post is directed at someone he either knows or believes to be town, he expresses anndoyance at the fact i'm town and claimed my role, rather than finding me suspicious for it (which later changes to once he realises his mistake).

While constantly ignoring my ACTUAL question, which was WHY, and HOW, you could have ever game to the false conclusion that I "either knew or believed" that you were town. I certanly never said anything of the sort.

I don't know why so many other people in this game seem to be giving you a pass and letting you get away with just ignoring everything I say to you, but I will not.

[Erratus Apathos]

What are your opinions on Xtoxm, Coriolanus and Dahill?

I don't feel like the cases against any of them are substantial. Maybe it's just me, but I can't really read xtoxm the way he's been playing, in the same way that I can't really read natirasha ever. I don't think that Coriolanus's "i'm in the business of scumhunting" post implies that he can't talk about anything else. And that idea that dahill is scummy for agreeing with Yos and Glork on Coriolanus's alt defense being strange is just beyond stupid.

If it comes down to one of those three, I'd prefer xtoxm lynch over Coriolanus or dahill, since it's no-read versus two town-leans.

i think that there are other tactics that can be used outside of scumtells. i read an article on MTGS by a player named azrael that can explain my philosophy pretty well, but since this conversation is hopelessly vague and isn't going anywhere i don't think it would be of much use.

I've read that, and didn't understand it at all.

I didn't reply because I wanted to see if he would insist on an answer or not. Up until now, it didn't seem to bother him. He is convinced enough to vote and pressure me, but then he doesn’t follow it up. Makes me wonder, why.

I thought you just didn't have access since you weren't posting at all. Was I supposed to infer you were lurking?

But since you now mentioned it, I might as well. EA considered it a defense of Yosarian, while it was a mere reaction to him "not liking Yosarians contributions", which in fact I didn't see as something not to like.

What's the difference?

My guess right now is that Coriolanus is scum. I wouldn't have a problem with lynching someone else then Xtoxm if that player is a more promising lynch - yet, if we don't find some, an Xtoxm lynch will at least prevent that we'd have to deal with his self-vote etc. again on Day 2. But Coriolanus is so reluctant to lynch Xtoxm today

at all

. I'm beginning to think he'd like to Xtoxm around on Day 2 as a bait.

That last bit implies you know xtoxm is town.

[Xtoxm]

That last bit implies you know xtoxm is town.

No, it doesn't. However, Yos slipped up earlier.

[Yosarian2]

That last bit implies you know xtoxm is town.

No, it doesn't. However, Yos slipped up earlier.

Look, for the last bloody time, tell me how you could possibly have interpreted my post that way. Because every time you keep repeating that and you keep not explaining yourself, I become more and more convinced you're scum who's trying to BS your way out of trouble.

[Coriolanus]

quoooooooote them

[Assmaster]

Sorry about not really being here over the past few days, I've had the good fortune to be extremely ill over Christmas, and what with having all the family up and all the events and all, I've been continuously very tired. You get me back later today.

[Xtoxm]

Patrick's explanation actually makes good sense, so i'll lift my comment about him. Glork and Yos still look scummy. At first I found Corio's "come back later" comment scummy, but actually I think I agree with Ass it's not such a scumtell. Dahill i'm not sure about, could be scum, i'd vote him if needs be.

I'd also completely forgotten i'd played with Ether.

Yos is scummy because his post is directed at someone he either knows or believes to be town, he expresses anndoyance at the fact i'm town and claimed my role, rather than finding me suspicious for it (which later changes to once he realises his mistake).

I have already explained why I claimed, perhaps someone isn't reading the thread thoroughly?

Hand waving generally means an improper/incomplete explanation.

I usually claim by L-2, and way it was going I could see I was always going to end up claiming today anyway. I just felt like it.

[charter]

Been busy, I'll read up when I get a chance.

[Rally Vincent]

I didn't say it is a bad thing. I just think that you focus too much on Xtoxm, even as he isn't willing to defend himself any further. Either we lynch him or not, but for now he is dealt with. We could still use the remaining time for other things.

So...you would focus

less

on someone because they're refusing to defend themselves?

That dosn't make sense. You focus more and more on them, until they start defending themselves and making sense.

If he refuses to defend himself again and again, you won't get anything out of him, no matter how much you poke him. If you deal with him almost exclusively, you neglect the other players. The outcome of Xtoxm will not change. Either we lynch him or not. I know Xtoxm's attitude isn't helpful, but what do you expect to get out of him?

My guess right now is that Coriolanus is scum. I wouldn't have a problem with lynching someone else then Xtoxm if that player is a more promising lynch - yet, if we don't find some, an Xtoxm lynch will at least prevent that we'd have to deal with his self-vote etc. again on Day 2. But Coriolanus is so reluctant to lynch Xtoxm today

at all

. I'm beginning to think he'd like to Xtoxm around on Day 2 as a bait.

That last bit implies you know xtoxm is town.

No. If you want Xtoxm to serve as bait, it doesn't matter if he is town or scum, especially since he already draws so much suspicion on him.

[Incognito]

Urgh I was kinda banking on this game having a deadline extension considering the holiday. I'm catching up still on the recent stuff.

I'd like to see Incognito really strongly attack somebody. But I also need to know him better. Right now, he seems fine, but a bit distanced for me.

I don't think I've been completely devoid of attacking others; I haven't exactly tunneled on anyone in particular like I feel a few others in this game have but for the most part, I think I've mainly been gathering information and trying to feel people out.

No. If you want Xtoxm to serve as bait, it doesn't matter if he is town or scum, especially since he already draws so much suspicion on him.

How exactly would this work if Xtoxm is scum? What exactly would he be drawing out as a hypothetical scum bait?

With the deadline approaching, I could see myself leaving my vote where it is or switching it to either Coriolanus or Assmaster if a wagon develops on him. I haven't really mentioned much about him, but I've been receiving really strange vibes from him, and I'm still bothered by the apparent double standard that's existed with him in this game.

[Pathetric]

I'm actually getting a bit wavery on Xtoxm now, too...I'm painfully aware that only a small part of my read on him is based on his own behavior. But his wagon still gives me a bad feeling, and I still definitely dislike Dahill, so, meh. The impending deadline is actually a bit of a relief to me.

A question to Incognito, Glork, Yosarian2, Erratus Apathos, Rally Vincent, probably some other people I'm forgetting:
Are you in fact aware of the full case against Dahill? What do you think of the contrast between this and this?

Coriolanus's reveal as Simenon really bothers me as I know Simenon is an experienced player and therefore I'm really questioning what it was he was trying to get at earlier when he mentioned that the lack of Glork death "really disappointed" him.

This is odd. It ignores the actual likelihood of this playerlist speedlynching Glork--a likelihood Simenon would be perfectly aware of. If anything, this would have been more scummy from a newbie's keyboard.

Incidentally, Primate is still town.

Spartan warrior,
-Ether