Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Sir Tornado]

Sir T, if you are battling despression, then this game isnt for you....sorry.

Mod, Please replace me.

Shouldn't I play until I get replaced?

[The Fonz]

Votecount:

Sir Tornado (4): Shanba, OhGodMyLife, Natirasha, Hoopla, Der Hammer
Der Hammer (3): Hoopla, Xylthixlm, Seraphim,
Tubby216 (3): SensFan, Yosarian2, xyzzy
Seraphim (2): Claus, curiouskarmadog
OhGodMyLife (2) - farside22, tubby216
Xylthixlm (1): Sir Tornado
curiouskarmadog (1): iamausername
Shanba (1): Battle Mage

not voting: Killa Seven, skitzer, militant, vollkan, Ectomancer

Best wishes to Sir T... looking for a replacement, as with K7.

[Der Hammer]

Unvote

, in light of a replacement being found.

[Der Hammer]

*of Sir T that is.

[Sir Tornado]

Unvote, in light of a replacement being found.

You haven't explain why you voted me in the first place though. You accuse me of being scum and asking the vig to do mafia's dirty work for them, but why would mafia want to NK a claimed miller? This was the sole basis of your vote, which, you have now hastily withdrawn under another pretext without answering why.

[Sir Tornado]

One more thing, your unvote is totally baseless. I am not being voted because I am lurking (or, atleast you are not doing that for that reason). It isn't a pressure vote to get me posting. So, why the hell do you unvote because I am being replaced? When you already KNEW I was going to be replaced when you put that vote on me in the first place? What is your logic here? Am I suddenly less scummy to you because I am being replaced?

[tubby216]

One more thing, your unvote is totally baseless. I am not being voted because I am lurking (or, atleast you are not doing that for that reason). It isn't a pressure vote to get me posting. So, why the hell do you unvote because I am being replaced? When you already KNEW I was going to be replaced when you put that vote on me in the first place? What is your logic here? Am I suddenly less scummy to you because I am being replaced?

qft

[Battle Mage]

One more thing, your unvote is totally baseless. I am not being voted because I am lurking (or, atleast you are not doing that for that reason). It isn't a pressure vote to get me posting. So, why the hell do you unvote because I am being replaced? When you already KNEW I was going to be replaced when you put that vote on me in the first place? What is your logic here? Am I suddenly less scummy to you because I am being replaced?

qft

QFT. Let's string up Shanbatat.

BM

[Yosarian2]

First of all,. I hope everything gets better for you with school, Sir T.

Also, if I am going to be lynched, I want Shanba and YoS to put their reasons for suspecting me on the record right now.

Well...you've consistantly been a secondary suspect of mine for most of the day. A lot of it in the early day comes down to some vaugly scummy vibes.

You later said something about how you were "trying to look delibratly ambiguas" about if you were town or scum to avoid being nightkilled, and that comment really struck me the wrong way. I responded to it, and you never responded back; it just seemed like a really easy excuse to say "well, if I look scummy, it's because I was trying to".

There was a third reason, which was that it seemed to me like whenever a bandwagon on your started to form you kind of lurked until it went away, but now that you've asked to be replaced I tend to think your lurking probably was honestly due to lack of time, so I'm disreguarding that as a scum tell.

You've never really been my main suspect today, sir T, but I've always been somewhat suspicious of you. I don't have that many concrete reasons to suspect you, honestly, but then again I don't have much data to work from since you haven't posted all that much, and I naturally tend to be more suspicious of someone who posts 10 times and 1 of their posts seems off then of someone who posts 40 times and 4 of their posts seems off. I still think Tubby is more likely to be scum then you, but you would be my second choice for a lynch.

[Sir Tornado]

Fair enough YoS.

[Der Hammer]

Unvote, in light of a replacement being found.

You haven't explain why you voted me in the first place though. You accuse me of being scum and asking the vig to do mafia's dirty work for them, but why would mafia want to NK a claimed miller? This was the sole basis of your vote, which, you have now hastily withdrawn under another pretext without answering why.

In this case, mafia would want a Vig to kill the claimed miller (me), sooner or later, to stop them getting into endgame where they could be a threat, and to save the mafia a kill which could be more productive on someone else.


And, no you don't become less scummy when your replaced, but I would at least like to give the replacement the benefit of a couple of posts before the vote is renewed.


And now just laying down to Yos, not even trying to rebutt any of the points made? Are you just accepting that you are rightfully someones 2nd best lynch?

[Shanba]

Sir Tornado:

Especially you, Sir T: what's up with the weak little FoS? Yos2 too.

Is my starting point. Yours was especially bad, because you unvoted at the same time. The impression I got was that you were unwilling to get your hands dirty. I mean, I understand your response, it's just I don't wee why there should be any threshold at all on the level of scumminess required for a vote on page 4, just after the random voting stage. Especially given that earlier, he

had

voted Hoopla seriously for a nl vote - a vote that was weak enough for him to retract fairly quickly. One explanation that I can envisage is that he did not see Seraphim's post as being as scummy as I did, but in that case I don't really see why he FoSsed at all.

And then, he never commits. It takes him ages to actually come to any conclusions about who he does want dead. He seems like he does not want to be noticed, and that always makes me want to look closer.

That said. As I reread his posts, there is a bit more stuff I agree with, a bit more stuff that looks pro-town, and I'm a bit less anxious to lynch him.

Sir Tornado: I like how you request replacement and then post 12 times in 3 days

I find it ironic that Sir T is far more active now than at any point since the beginning of the game.

[Ectomancer]

What happened to Claus? Christmas?

[Sir Tornado]

In this case, mafia would want a Vig to kill the claimed miller (me), sooner or later, to stop them getting into endgame where they could be a threat, and to save the mafia a kill which could be more productive on someone else.

Is this some kind of joke? Explain

how

you can be a threat to mafia in endgame. This is the first time I am hearing this theory.

And, no you don't become less scummy when your replaced, but I would at least like to give the replacement the benefit of a couple of posts before the vote is renewed.

What for? Considering you are voting me for a complete BS reason.

And now just laying down to Yos, not even trying to rebutt any of the points made? Are you just accepting that you are rightfully someones 2nd best lynch?

Why on earth would I rebut completely valid points? The only thing he is wrong in his post is:

I don't have that many concrete reasons to suspect you, honestly, but then again I don't have much data to work from since you haven't posted all that much,

because, believe it or not, I have commented on everything so far in the game except the lurker hunt. Also, for all the talk about me being not participating, this is my 63rd post. CKD has 31, Shanba has 28 OGML has 48, YoS2 has 56, Natirasha has 19, Hoopla has 35, Der Hammer has 27, Tubby has 56 and Ecto has 43. Only Xyl (96) and BM (118) and have more posts than me. And, it's not like I have been saying nothing in my posts either. So, it's not exactly 1 in 10 as YoS2 says.

Is my starting point. Yours was especially bad, because you unvoted at the same time. The impression I got was that you were unwilling to get your hands dirty. I mean, I understand your response, it's just I don't wee why there should be any threshold at all on the level of scumminess required for a vote on page 4, just after the random voting stage. Especially given that earlier, he had voted Hoopla seriously for a nl vote - a vote that was weak enough for him to retract fairly quickly. One explanation that I can envisage is that he did not see Seraphim's post as being as scummy as I did, but in that case I don't really see why he FoSsed at all.

I don't think both of use thought Seraphim was scummy for the same thing... my reason wasn't nearly strong enough to cast vote on him.

And then, he never commits. It takes him ages to actually come to any conclusions about who he does want dead. He seems like he does not want to be noticed, and that always makes me want to look closer.

Can you point out ANY game where I actually wanted anyone desperately dead on D1? I am a very poor scum hunter, although I do tend to figure out who the scum are, by the end game, I just fail at getting them lynched; as seen by my abysmal record as town. (2 wins in about 20 odd games). I tend not to go on accusing anyone on D1, because frankly speaking I have no clue on who is scum on D1. Don't try to twist this and say I do not scum hunt on D1 (this is mainly to OGML and Xyl).

I find it ironic that Sir T is far more active now than at any point since the beginning of the game.

This isn't true :p I was much more active on pages 17/18/19.

[The Fonz]

Battle Mage has requested replacement.

[tubby216]

^i think i just died a lil inside,,

[Claus]

Long-ish post. There is a re-read of current events, and a Tl;Dr version after "Summary" below:

===

Der hammer, you pointed at Sensfan, BM, Hoopla and Tubby, then voted Seraphim. While I agree with your vote, what do you think about the previous four in relation to Seph?

Volkann, would you explain your post 731 to me in few words, please? What I want to know is: You attack DH on his comment, but doesn't ask him any questions, even if he is giving input. However, you don't vote or FoS him. What was your intent in that post?

Volkann, short question: Who do you think is scum? Name a few people if possible.

CKD: Hey CKD! Thanks for the compliment, and for joining the right Wagon! Now let's get more people voting Seraph!

Farside: You posted a lot about lurkers, but haven't given any opinion yourself on players. What about that? Why don't you vote Seraph?

Yos: If Yos dislikes Seph's vote so much (712,764), why is he not FoSing or voting him?

I don't quite follow 765-769, but I'm not for "never lynch X".

Post 781 sums up my suspicion of Yos: It is a reasonable post, with which I agree wholeheartedly. Yet, this posts don't help me at all to discern who Yos wants dead. He is posting extremely nice things, but not moving the town towards a lynch.

Yos, short question: Who do you think is scum? Name a few people if possible.

Edit: Tubby, then SirT, is it? Thanks! Why do you suspect Tubby? Anyone else?

795 puts farside above Yos in my "To lynch" list. Edit: And she keeps posting but not helping for the whole time after this.

799 Now I get Ecto's point. But I think Seph is scum, and DH is helping me vote her, so I don't want to lynch him right now (EDIT: DH is not helping me anymore to lynch Seph. I now agree with a DH lynch ).

Shanba, if you jump over to the Sera wagon, I'm pretty sure more people will follow the growing wagon. What is the wagon on SirT based upon anyway? His lurking? Or anything else?

810 Ecto: I was replying to the post you directly addressed me with. Sorry if you can't keep track of what you write

811 Got Ecto and Yos mad. Cool. Sorry, Yos, I see lots of words from you, but not much content. You never Fos or vote anyone, or call for lynchs. That is not very fun to read.

812-823 lots of "I'm away".

825: SirT: No, thanks. Do what you will with Gimbo's posts. I absolutely agree that replacees shouldn't be given clean slates, but I also think you shouldn't ask the replacement to justify/comment the replaced player's actions.

826-846 SirT asks to be replaced, and starts to post a lot. Nothing really stands out here for me. He claims for a Sera wagon. But he is not voting it. Running out of time now, will read SirT with more care later.

858 - Ooooh. SirT is Yos secondary... no, wait not main suspect... oh, second in line of being scum!

862 - Yeah, Ecto, I was planning to post on the 26th, but then I got a Wii for xmas, and also spend more time than I anticipated on RL stuff, sorry.

===

Summary

After reading the recent posts, I still want to lynch Seph most. If you are not voting seph: Why are you not doing so? (serious question).

I will add Volkann in my "to lynch" list, after Yos and Farside. Farside, tops the list, and Yos Bottoms it, from his recent posts. My opinion on them is that they post a bunch, but their posts don't seem to advocate any movement of the town towards a lynch.

I will try to re-read SirT before my trip to see if I agree with his lynch or not.

MOD: Are we currently under a deadline?

By the way, I might post again tomorrow, but then I'm off for a trip, and will only be back on the 6th. If you have any pressing questions, please post them soon. I'll try to decide if I agree with the SirT wagon or not before

Cheers! (and please, those who are intelligent and wise in the ways of mafia, don't blow an artery when I say your posts have "little content" - you just need to be more clear and concise )

[Seraphim]

To answer your question, I'm not voting myself because that's not smart in the slightest. I would also like to know why you want me lynched so badly. I'm not sure where you posted your case against me.

[The Fonz]

As stated on first page, we are deadlined for Jan 7th.

[Sir Tornado]

unvote
vote Claus

I am sorry, but if you are not cop, my defence of Puta Puta does not hold good.

[Claus]

To answer your question, I'm not voting myself because that's not smart in the slightest.

You may be scum, but you have a sense of humour

I would also like to know why you want me lynched so badly. I'm not sure where you posted your case against me.

I think I have posted my case against you on my first "reading post", but I will be happy to repeat it.

- Your reason for jumping in the DerHammer wagon is scummy - you voted him because you though his play was "bad play".

- Your behavior from page 1-3 is also scummy. You jumped in an early bandwagon - which isn't bad at all - but then you got touchy when someone called you on it. And then when pressioned by BM, you backtracked and unvoted.

- After that, all you did was pipe in every now and then to vote a random lurker (putaputa, then tubby (2 posts later), then puta puta again, then K7).


If you think lynching you is a bad idea, you can help it by telling my your general impressions on other players - something other than "so and so is a lurker, let's lynch him".

========

SirT:

So you defended Puta for his claim, but now you don't believe his claim anymore? If you believed his claim then, why do you think I have to confirm/deny it now?

Also, if the claim made you unvote puta, what was the reason you were voting him in the first place? Lack of content? I guess I cannot be accused of that - what I think about the game now is quite in the clear. Does any of my current opinions makes you think I'm scum/a good lynch?

[Claus]

Ugh, deadline on the 7th? :-/ Re-reading SirT now.

[Claus]

Read SirT.

I found his early game lacking, and I agree with Yos that SirT's "I'm acting this way not to be NK'ed" smells a little. But his later posts were actually quite reasonable, and can be used to link him to other players once he/them cardflip.

I'm not really sold on a SirT bandwagon, and would like to hear more people telling me why they are voting SirT. If they want a lurker deadline wagon, there are much better options.

As for the "the only way I support Puta's replacement if he confirms the cop claim and posts results every morning". I find this weird given your reaction to the Puta wagon before the claim. And I don't agree with it anyway. Here is my counter offer: I will confirm/deny Puta's claim D2. If that doesn't cut it for you, sorry.

=======

Leaving now. My current position:
Seph is still my choice for lynch. I urge you all to vote for him.

I was going to say that farside was my second choice, but a quick read of Farside's middle posts (the ones with a bit more of content and the OGML pressure) made my will a bit weaker in this sense.

I don't really approve of the SirT lynch unless more people in this wagon can come up with more reasons of why he is the game for today.

I'll try my best to show up between the 6th and 7th to join a wagon to prevent no-lynch in the sad event Seph isn't dead by the time I return from my trip.

Over and out, happy new year everyone

[curiouskarmadog]

will be posting on Monday

[Shanba]

Hrm.

Unvote vote: Seraphim