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[SuperfluousNinja]

Ninja can i get a reads list with every explanation being 1-2 sentences?

You requested a reads list, I gave it in Post 909.

Any thoughts / feedback on it?

[Grackaroni]

I guess activity is not a valid reason to scum read Dunnstral since in the town game he linked he's posted less than this one.

It's a pretty big stylistic difference for me. I'm used to people trying to save themselves from being yeeted like Ninja did.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Last post link didn't work, try this one:

Post 909

[Grackaroni]

In general I associate sustained activity over long periods of time as much harder for mafia than town, so that will impact my reads.

I'd be curious if people on this site agree with that?

[SuperfluousNinja]

In general I associate sustained activity over long periods of time as much harder for mafia than town, so that will impact my reads.

I'd be curious if people on this site agree with that?

I absolutely do, 110%.

[Dannflor]

very generally? yes

but I think any half-decent scum player can sustain activity for as long as needed

[Vivax]

In general I associate sustained activity over long periods of time as much harder for mafia than town, so that will impact my reads.

I'd be curious if people on this site agree with that?

Depends, they post more on a need to basis. When threatened by votes that can change.

I agree in principle though.

Exceptions exist. Wouldn‘t work on HF and a few other experienced players.

[Dannflor]

only town can post on this page

[Gypyx]

only town can post on this page

Hello

[Dannflor]

fuck

[outoforder]

Alright i am here now. Gotta put on laundry real quick, gotta earn my beer and cozy fireplace on play mafia listen to all in flames records time ^^

[outoforder]

Vivax who do we do first?

[Hu Tao]

Not really sure why ninja seems to be upset with the concept of meta

Could be scum upset that a townie is being townread unjustly

They posted again about 20 minutes after I asked, so yes, they were here and following along at the time.

Is it really just Dunnstral and myself that think they're suspicious? Nobody else?

I could literally make up reasons and give 3 random reasons if I wanted to as scum. I don't have many scumreads. If that's a problem for you, too bad. I'm being honest and if you want to vote me for being honest then do so.

[outoforder]

I will start then.
Grack.

There are things that bother me a lot in his game. First of all it's quite hard to do catch up like that with keeping your story straight. Especially as mafia.
There is the post where Luca claims he thinks the interaction with Oats and Roden is S/S. Grack agrees with that, because it looks bizarre.
But after all the opinion actually is that Oats is town and Roden is not.
Then he suspects me and you (Vivax).

Then there is like sudden change in everything. Suddenly Roden doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Vivax doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Luca looks like mafia.
Notice that I am the only person ever in this game before Vivax just while ago to suspect Luca at any level. He doesn't have anything to say about his read on me.

Also he doesn't have anything to say about my post here:

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

As knowing me, Vivax, Oats and DP, regardless of if Grack thinks i am correct, incorrect or whatever here, this should be imo the most interesting post in the game to him, especially since he apparently suspects me. Alarm bells are ringing as he just comments absolutely nothing about it.

[Roden]

10 more pages since last night...

[Vivax]

I will start then.
Grack.

There are things that bother me a lot in his game. First of all it's quite hard to do catch up like that with keeping your story straight. Especially as mafia.
There is the post where Luca claims he thinks the interaction with Oats and Roden is S/S. Grack agrees with that, because it looks bizarre.
But after all the opinion actually is that Oats is town and Roden is not.
Then he suspects me and you (Vivax).

Then there is like sudden change in everything. Suddenly Roden doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Vivax doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Luca looks like mafia.
Notice that I am the only person ever in this game before Vivax just while ago to suspect Luca at any level. He doesn't have anything to say about his read on me.

Also he doesn't have anything to say about my post here:

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

As knowing me, Vivax, Oats and DP, regardless of if Grack thinks i am correct, incorrect or whatever here, this should be imo the most interesting post in the game to him, especially since he apparently suspects me. Alarm bells are ringing as he just comments absolutely nothing about it.

I think he's town though. I liked how he picked out posts to discern my alignment, I think it was genuine understanding.
Everyone at some point has content that doesn't seem to add up. A D1 townie is more prone to changing opinion often.

I think I'd have preferred if we did Roden. I took a bit of a leap of faith in TRing him initially, but I still believe Oats is kinda scummy and I'm wondering if I didn't side between them in what was a SVS interaction.

From the timing SVS would make sense because if mafia doesn't post early they're going to be more self conscious when entering the thread later. It's like they built up a debt they have to repay so they may resort to more oomph.

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

In this post again I find it odd that Oats is someone Luca isn't that confident about. If Oats and Roden fought it out so early and Roden is his confident scumread, I believe he should be more opinionated on Oats as well and offer some kind of interpretation to the arguments between them.

I'm mainly just fucking with Oats for being unnecessarily unhelpful and rude

I do genuinely think he's scum for his faux outrage though, and his attempts to discredit me aren't helping

This is not very townie.

Then vote Oats

I'd rather vote you, as I don't believe the way you're portraying your view of the game to be real. It's feels as if you're overcompensating.

Ok, found the second scum

Over the top omgus?
Maybe it's as simple as Roden, Luca, Oats with everyone in bus mode.

[Dannflor]

I am increasingly liking Vivax's posts

[outoforder]

I wouldnt put aside Roden + Luca, but for real Oats is definitely my top top top townread. I am very very good at reading Oats, i don't think eight or so years between games change that much.

Like i am alsmost certain Oats is town.

[outoforder]

Did Luca actually vote Roden or what did he do?

[Roden]

Hmm Roden, tell me more about your thoughts on Oatsmaster and SuperNinja.

Also, do you not want to go Vivax today?

I don't have much more to say about those two

Correct, I don't want to vote Vivax. He's a strong player who shrouds himself under the guise of "lol random" humor. I think it's really easy to want to vote him for being different, and I remember last time I rolled scum against him our team was trying to make him lim bait, but he actually ended up with some of the more accurate reads of the town. So I'm currently just paying attention to what he says and giving him time to cook.

[Roden]

Roden she said you used language that makes it seem like you have a rock-solid opinion.

Right. Why does town think scum has a "rock-solid opinion"? Scum just lies.

[outoforder]

Hmm Roden, tell me more about your thoughts on Oatsmaster and SuperNinja.

Also, do you not want to go Vivax today?

I don't have much more to say about those two

Correct, I don't want to vote Vivax. He's a strong player who shrouds himself under the guise of "lol random" humor. I think it's really easy to want to vote him for being different, and I remember last time I rolled scum against him our team was trying to make him lim bait, but he actually ended up with some of the more accurate reads of the town. So I'm currently just paying attention to what he says and giving him time to cook.

well he is saying youre scum so what gives?

[Roden]

I'm not meeting you on uneven ground. This is a very manipulative post to make in response and just confirms my suspicions of what you were doing. I repeatedly explained the reasoning behind my interactions with Oats, and you've repeatedly chosen to ignore it and assign context and intentions that are not actually there.

Again, I'd like to see actual things I have said that you characterize as "assigning context and intentions that are not actually there". Like please show me some things I have said, show quotes, be more specific than this. I'm not going to take this claim from you seriously until you've actually demonstrated that I have done this. I really do not think you're describing the situation accurately, and

I am leaving the ball in your court to prove otherwise.

I am not actively trying to influence you in any way here, other than to request that you do a little bit more work to actually prove your point.

You are putting in effort to convince ME that my own thoughts were not real.

That is such an incredibly unfair way of characterizing it. There's a difference between me saying "I don't believe that your thoughts and intentions are genuine" and me directly influencing YOU to believe that your own thoughts are not actually genuine.

And attempting to make it about you when I called you out on it (finding it to be "serious on a personal level") is a trademark gaslighter tactic.

This is getting WAY too personal and I'm going to ask you to stop. Like for real if you're doubling down on this, then I think what I'd like to do is defer to the mod and ask if they think I'm gaslighting you, because THAT

IS

EXTREMELY SERIOUS. If I were actually doing that, if I were actually trying to psychologically manipulate you in this way, that's something that I should be modkilled before. I REALLY, REALLY do not think that is what I am doing, but if it is, I'm going to defer to the mod and to some higher level of judgment, because you are making this about a lot more than just a game when you accuse me of this.

???

You've been here for years, you know gaslighting isn't against the rules. This AtE is out of control.

[Roden]

Hmm Roden, tell me more about your thoughts on Oatsmaster and SuperNinja.

Also, do you not want to go Vivax today?

I don't have much more to say about those two

Correct, I don't want to vote Vivax. He's a strong player who shrouds himself under the guise of "lol random" humor. I think it's really easy to want to vote him for being different, and I remember last time I rolled scum against him our team was trying to make him lim bait, but he actually ended up with some of the more accurate reads of the town. So I'm currently just paying attention to what he says and giving him time to cook.

well he is saying youre scum so what gives?

Since when? He's been town reading me this entire game.

[Roden]

Like why would he pick a fight with a lengthy response type of person who isn't afraid to get their hands dirty?

Considering you gave him a solid townread in that list post, doesn’t seem like this is true.

I guess I just don't really follow what you're saying here. What is the connection between the general assumption that scum wouldn't want to stir shit up with a lengthy response type of person and my town read on Dann? Like why isn't the conclusion just that this makes Dann less likely to be scum?

Scumdann just cares about looking townie, he doesn’t really care who dies. That case has everyone thinking he’s town. Not really sure why this is some super unlikely scenario.
Like from your perspective, this dude just spent a bunch of time casing you and immediately after you responded he just dropped it and went for someone else. Doesn’t really seem like he was invested in his read.

I like to think the reason he gave it up so fast was because I did such a great job of deconstructing his argument. Consider that I was able to go through each and every word he wrote and explained all of it thoroughly. You could have broken everything he wrote and everything I wrote into like 20-30 posts of this site's seemingly average length, and then it would magically look less like he just abandoned it real quick and more like he actually followed through on his suspicions, and yet the actual content of everything that was said would still be exactly the same. Everyone is free to re-read my response as many times as they like; I don't think anyone should come away from such an exercise thinking that he still had a good argument there. I think THAT is why he gave it up. The timeline of it isn't the interesting part of the story.

Seems like from your perspective he did it to look townie and once that objective was achieved he moved on.

This is just conjecture. It could seem like that, sure, but is that what actually happened? This isn't a convincing argument for anything.

Dissecting a post =/= actually deconstructing an argument