Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[Nameless]

...

Okay, what I said about being more sure in a GK lynch? Scratch that, Wall-E dies when I decide between Tony and Kiro.

[TonyMontana]

Tony needs to speak. Now.

Workin on it. I'm at the office, so gotta read/write ninja style. -.- Don't go lynching someone first.

[Nameless]

That line is getting a bit old, Tony.

[TonyMontana]

Dunno what you mean, I've used none of the lines before -.-

Review of yesterday coming after lunch, don't go lynching while I'm lunching. (I kill myself)

[TonyMontana]

Day 2 in review

#786 -

Charter

kicks off the day with "kmd, explain"
#787 -

Nameless

elaborates by voting KMD. -

First vote on inevitable lynch. Neither here nor there

#788 -

Plum

elaborates further with a second vote. -

Second vote on inevitable lynch. Neither here nor there

#789 -

KMD

says his hail marys, votes GnK.

---

#790 -

GnKoichi

starts off by defending himself. Goes on to vote kmd, citing faking ignorance as reason.
Says he doesn't wanna push for too short a day, even tho he's putting kmd at L-2. -

The defensiveness right of the bat rubs me the wrong way, and the push of wagon with a wish to hold it back.

---

#790 -

Charter

airs the idea of targetclaim and the vig claiming
#794 -

Kiro

is not impressed by Kmd's efforts, subsequently votes. (Then EBWOPs in #795 that kmd is at L-1, which is good for scum-bait, then unvotes in #796 because kmd can self-hammer) My

scumdar

is already tingeling, but it's the next paragraph that irks me. Kiro argues against the idea of a massclaim, and

states he doesn't recall 2 doctors to block 2 kills.

This during kmd's failure to feign ignorance? On the very first page #8 I asked about this. Not only did stef answer it, but Mirth answered it in her first vote count on the same page.

---

#798 -

Nameless

announces his disapproval of kmd's defense, as well as gives Kiro a skeptical smiley for his 2 doc 2 kill comment. Smiley recanted in next post. -

Fine.

#801 -

Plum

starts off her critique with kmd. Then asks GnK to back up his reasoning with more examples, and gets on his back for supporting the hammer, but not the fakehammer. Gets back on kmd, citing Kiro as well as adding how she's displeased with his assement of having a 50/50 shot at scum claiming vig is good. Advocates a massclaim, but not really. -

Overall, a fine enough post.

---

#802-804 - Alittle back and forth between kmd and

Nameless

. Nameless wants kmd to defend the hammer, kmd is sticking to his fake hammer story. -

Neither here nor there. Feels like an honest quarrel,

but could just be scums "fighting".

---

#805 -

Wall-E

drops in, hands kmd a big shiny hammer.

- Did you bother reading the 20 posts before you?

#806 -

Kmd

ka-dunk. Wants us to know he really did believe he was fake hammering.
#808 -

Wall-E

is really upset that kmd used the big hammer he gave him. Unvotes, and puts town on timeout.

- I guess you didn't bother to read before you voted.

#809 -

kmd

mocks Wall-E, saying it's too late to unvote.
#810 -

Wall-E

still upset, promises to strangle kmd if he's town.

- I see you're sticking to your story of not knowing your vote was L-1. This is on level with kmd not knowing his hammer was real.

---

20 hour day comes to an end.

I'm seeing Kiro and Wall-E as remaining scum, and GnK as SK. Nameless and Plum come off neutral at best, but gets benefit of any doubt when compared to the last three.

So in response to GnK: *raises hand*

Only black visible text is allowed. You obviously have not read the rules. This is an official mod-warning for disobeying the rules. The only thing that saved you from a mod-killing right now is that the color tags said "darkblue" instead of "blue" which is how the text appears on my screen.

[GnKoichi]

Can we get a round of applause for post #854? Welcome to the game, Tony! (not meant with any sarcasm {I hate the internet})

He's been on every major wagon, made the mistake of suggesting no lynch, exaggerated poor arguments and cases, tried to handwave suspicion by saying things like "I'm turning over a new leaf", "All the hate against me isn't grounded", "I'm only being lynched because I'm defending myself" (Paraphrasing) ... It doesn't help that the first thing he says D3 is LET'S IGNORE THE SK EVERYONE.

GK, what is your response to my accusations that you are the SK?

I'm not really sure how to respond. Your analysis of me seems correct in terms of describing what I've done. I'm just not following your logic to me being the SK. I have been on every major wagon, except for the one against myself, obviously, thought I believe there are a few players who would fall into that category (you, for one). I really don't see what the "no lynch" thing has to do with anything. How would that benefit the SK? Also, yes, I defended myself by "turning over a new leaf", but actually, since then I've turned over a new leaf (no quotation marks). Wouldn't you say my play style has improved? Doesn't that lend credence to those posts?

The only point which I follow is that I've said not to Lynch the SK today. I guess that could be suspicious, except I think others have agreed, and even shown mathematically, that this is the correct plan. I'm all for trying to oust the SK tomorrow, and I think we probably have enough info to figure out who s/he is based on tonight's NKs, and possibly the order in which people chose to support the Wall-E lynch today.

[Plum]

Also, hands raised, who is willing to step forward and be the other two votes needed to put Wall-E away once we feel we have a good set of information?

If I haven't made it clear that I think Wall-E is scum and deserves the lynch before now, let me say it here: I'm absolutely willing to vote him when we have a good set of info going into night.

Tony: Wow, that was an eminently decent post. I approve.

On the remaining scum: I'm most comfortable with Nameless as town (as opposed to anyone else). I need more from Tony and to do a Tony reread to determine how likely he is to be scum. I'm fairly sure that one of GnK and Kiro is Mafia, and one is either SK or town (because if Kmd's gambit and accusations - if I went further down that road I would have to guess GnK as Mafia and Kiro as other, but again, I'm not sure enough on it).

Have I left anything out? I plan to do some sort of analysis of Nameless' 'GnK is SK' theory, later, as my lunch recess is over in ten minutes, and the school computer won't let me access the penultimate page of this game for no apparent reason .

[Kiro]

Nameless: I had little to say regarding KMD during Day 1 because we had a multitude of other people who acted up more. KMD just didn't stand out to me as much throughout the Day. As for my comment when he hammered, I just left open the possibility that it could have been a mistake. Given it was Twilight and that someone might end up NKing KMD, all I could do was to wait and see. His reason (an SK might claim Vig) wasn't so bad, but the timing was.

Regarding Tony's analysis of my #794. I voted KMD for what I thought was a reasoned analysis of KMD's initial response in Day 2. Then I realized it could have led to a cut in discussion and unvoted. Simple, I made a mistake and took the responsible action by unvoting for it. You can say it leads to scum coaching or whatever, but if you put me in Townie shoes, what else can I do? Consequently enough, the fact that the self hammer didn't happen with my vote gave me hope that others would note it and not do the same. Wall-E making the same mistake after me is either due to him not reading the thread, or because he willingly chose to do it. Why would my unvoting action be considered a trap? If we were scum buddies, what long term goal could he have in sacrificing himself in Day 3 to make me look extra good (if I could even look good for doing that)? Without knowing who would die in Night 2, Mafia would still probably end up in a 1v1 against the SK which probably results in the Mafia losing. And Wall-E doing that if he were the SK is potentially suicidal.

For Tony's second point on me, not recalling that 2 doctors can block 2 kills, that's a bad mistake that I have no excuse for. I forgot all about it and went to look. Checked the rules because I figured it'd be in the universal setup rules, and didn't see it. Forgot to check the Open Role PMs. I personally don't see how this has anything to do with "kmd's failure to feign ignorance." Why are you trying to link me with KMD on mistakes that are totally separate from each other? I didn't even vote KMD for the mistake he made. I voted him because his reaction in Day 2 was so poor. I voted KMD for apathy in his Day 2 reaction, unvote him due to a possible self-hammer and then make an error about game setup and you're trying to link all these separate events together? Seems like a convenient attempt to paint me as Scum, but you cannot draw any real connection between these.

As for you Tony, your convenient ability to lurk through Day 1 gives you such leeway to not be held to anything that happened during the Day, even if it lasted from November 6th to December 5th with over 670 posts. You have virtually no scumhunting record to show of either. Also:

I would like to hear from myself too, I'm alittle disgruntled that the day was over before I even got a word in yesterday.
Bedtime now, tho.

What a useless statement. We all know you lurked, why are you trying to prop yourself up like that? If Wall-E was Mafia and intentionally allowed KMD to self hammer himself, an obvious benefit would be to protect a scumbuddy Tony from not having to comment about anything till Day 3. Our expectations of Tony would be so low that when he finally got something out, we're like... "Ooh! Good post." Your post above is ok, but primarily a long summary of Day 2 which by all means was a much simpler Day than Day 1. It's easy to pick your targets for today; you don't need to talk about charter or animorph or orangepenguin because they're all dead now. If you intend to link game setup errors I made to KMD, I will hit back with this connection to Wall-E giving you an extra chance to lurk more and say less.

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote Plum

[Plum]

Unvote: Vote Plum

Er? Reasons?

[Wall-E]

Why do you think I'm voting for you?

[Wall-E]

The situation is exactly as described by Tony. Thanks for the post.

[Nameless]

@ Tony, you say Plum is "neutral at best", but not once in your review (or indeed, the entire game) have you mentioned a single negative point against her. Why?

How would that benefit the SK?

I am getting a little bit tired of players (pretending?) not to know the setup. SK has NK immunity. Lynching is the only way to kill the SK, ergo not lynching = win for SK.

The situation is exactly as described by Tony.

Tony described you

as scum

. Also, "Why do you think I'm voting for you?" is a really bad way of trying to have a townie damn themselves because you can't BS an explanation.

[Wall-E]

Hey, it was worth a shot.

I voted for you because you appear to me to be keeping a low profile and buddying.

[TonyMontana]

@ Tony, you say Plum is "neutral at best", but not once in your review (or indeed, the entire game) have you mentioned a single negative point against her. Why?

Well, the last comment was intended to be somewhat smirky (albeit not warranting a red text).
But that's just how I see everyone. I don't see anyone as particularly town, I just see people in degrees of scumminess. I hate when people label people as town anyway, as it's giving them credibility they might not deserve.

[TonyMontana]

Why do you think I'm voting for you?

The situation is exactly as described by Tony. Thanks for the post.

¬¬

vote:Wall-E

[Nameless]

Confident the SK is already on your scumbuddy's wagon?

[Wall-E]

Hey, do NOT vote me. I am town. I agreed with the non-incriminating version of Tony's post. It's not a confession or anything.

[TonyMontana]

Confident the SK is already on your scumbuddy's wagon?

Something you want to confess?

[Mirth]

"There seems to be some confusion as to who the doctors are."

VOTE COUNT

Wall-E - 3 - [Kiro, GnKoichi, Tony Montana]

Plum - 1 - [Wall-E]

Not Voting - 2 - [Plum, Nameless]

[GnKoichi]

Wall-E, you agreeing with Tony's analysis does nothing to clear you of being scum. Your lies all came in Day 3, so saying you weren't scummy Day 2 is completely meaningless (if not also wrong).

Nameless, I did know that the SK was NK immune, I just failed to connect the dots. My thought process was more "The SK wants people to die, so why would he vote for people not to die?". Wasn't really thinking about him trying to protect himself. That said, crap, yeah, you make a good point for me being the SK. Guess all I can say is "I'm not" and hope that you believe me. Those Day 1 mistakes are going to be the end of me.

Personally, I think we're ready for a hammer on Wall-E. I don't know that we could get any more information. Most players seem to have their suspicions on who the scum buddy and SK are. There's some overlap, so I think there's something close to consensus (can't say I'm happy that I'm on the wrong side of that). My personal thought is that Kiro is the SK or the Mafia Doc (based solely on him wanting to avoid protection back in Day 1). I think Tony or Nameless could be the scumbuddy, Tony for lurking and Nameless for his interactions with Kmd and Wall-E. Plum, if you're scum, you're simply amazing. I don't know that anyone is after you right now (except Wall-E, who, you know, whatever).

[Plum]

I don't see the point in using the time I put into this playing guessing games and experimenting with my psychic capabilities, Wall-E, so it's nice that (after you were asked to) you did mention a reason for voting me.

I'm sorry if I've kept a 'low profile', though I'm not entirely clear on what you mean by that. If I don't happen to be forcefully pushing brand-new ideas at the moment, or happen not to be saying anything particularly risky, I'm sorry. If you brought an example or two of where you think I was intentionally keeping a low profile and can explain why you think doing so in that situation was scummy, I might be able to give you a better response.

Buddying? Are you saying that I'm trying to buddy up to Nameless by not listing him among those whom I most suspect? I'm not ignoring what he says and I am keeping in mind that he very well could be scum. He just seems less scummy than any of the other players, in my mind. My response to Tony? Well, I'll admit I may have been perhaps more positive about his post than necessary, bit effusive, as compared to his previous lack of posting it was a step up and did show some analysis. Other than that, an example of scummy buddying?

[Wall-E]

I didn't specify at all what I meant. It looks like you are going to oblige me by building a case against yourself for me. Thanks!

[Nameless]

Plum does seem a little overly defensive against Wall-E's empty accusation, but I'm still not seeing a case for her to be scum over eg. Wall-E.

My personal thought is that Kiro is the SK or the Mafia Doc (based solely on him wanting to avoid protection back in Day 1)

And yet this is

right after

refuting your similar mistake of advocating a no lynch!

[GnKoichi]

Agreed on the scum thing. Don't let yourself get pushed. Scum at this point are going to try to get us pointing fingers in the wrong direction. Stay on target.

Nameless, I agree that there isn't much more to my suspicion of Kiro than there is to your suspicion of me. They are about the same level of reasoning. I know it was simply a mistake on my part, and not a scumtell, but no one else does, so I can't really refute it. Kiro may be experiencing the same thing, knowing that it was just a slip up early in the game that is making him look bad much later. But since you're not in my head, and I'm not in his, I don't see a contradiction.