Ok, I tried to make this post while i was at work, but I do a lot of C&P in my job so i kept losing the post as i went back and forth, so after about the third try I gave up, but now that I'm home, I'll try again. Just a warning, This is going to be a LONG post with lots of quoting.
________________________________________________________
RestFermata wrote:I have been useful.
HA HA HA. No quite true.
you've made 40 posts. (about 20 less than Tajo, and a full 1/3 as many as KMD) the two people i clicked on to compare numbers to) and less than half of those posts have been longer than two inconsequential lines.
Lets review, shall we?
Post 0 (all post numbers are from isolation with oldest first)
RestFermata wrote:/confirm!
Ok, a comfirmation post, nothing harmful here, those are usually nothing but a couple words.
Post 1
RestFermata wrote:Vote: elvis_knits
Because Elvis doesn't knit; he's dead! LAL!
ooh, a random vote. again, nothing harmful, this is what happens at the beginning of a game.
Post 2
RestFermata wrote:If that's a post restriction, Kmd, you already broke it...
P.S.
Unvote; Vote: Kmd
for even thinking about character claiming.
Hmm, 36 hours later and we're jumping on KMD because of the PR.
Post 3
RestFermata wrote:EBWOP
That was a joke, a reference to the last Family Guy game, which Kmd and I were in.
An EBWOP, so 2 and 3 are pretty much one post, as you're just explaining your comment was a joke about a previous game.
Post 4
RestFermata wrote:I was referring to this:
Kmd wrote:ongoing game. Not sure how much can be said about it.
But I don't mean to be a spoilsport.
More explainging of the previous post.
Post 5
RestFermata wrote:Aw, I want a post restriction. --whine--
More pointless posts.
Post 6
RestFermata wrote:Well, I was Tom Tucker the vanilla townie last game, but I don't think my role then has anything to do with his role this game. Besides, Brian the dog was scum last time. Who would think that?
I've already mentioned I didn't like the comparing this game to a previous game. THIS IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA. there's a reason this game is different, trying to draw assumptions about this game based on things in that game is less than helpful
Post 7
RestFermata wrote:If it's anything like last game, regular Family Guy characters are double agents for the FCC. But I don't know if it's anything like last game. So this kind of speculation doesn't accomplish much.
AND WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE PREVIOUS GAME. 8 posts, and not 1 of them has been what I would consider useful at all.
Post 8
RestFermata wrote:I don't understand how one can play this game without using WIFOM to some extent. Not all WIFOM is created equal. For example, scum may make some sacrifices in order to appear more town. However, if the sacrifices are too great, it may be valid to say scum would not go so far just to establish a more townish image. I think that this entire game is WIFOM. We have to recognize that using WIFOM is often not going to lead us anywhere, but at times, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. (As long as we take speculation as speculation, not as fact, of course!)
So I have no problem with Kmd's WIFOM.
I think that flavor analysis is not useful and may send the town on the wrong track, but I don't necessarily see it as scummy. It's one of a few ways to pull us out of the random voting stage. However, I don't like Zilla's attempt to clear Kmd just for (allegedly) being Tom Tucker. Based on the last game, I believe that FCC scum could be absolutely anyone. Pretty much every character in Family Guy has problems, so you could come up with an FCC "we sympathize with your plight, now come join our cause" letter (based on the last game) for about any character. Even if it doesn't follow the format of the last game, I still think it is a valid assumption that the FCC should be anyone. We cannot and should not attempt to condemn or clear any player based on their role name alone. The fact that Zilla is doing something like this so early in the game worries me. It seems like he is trying to lead the town in the wrong direction logic-wise. Also, the fact that he retracted it immediately is also suspicious. Sounds like he's trying to put that statement out there, but also not look entirely responsible for it.
I also want to know what tajo means by the "security of Kmd." So far this is the only post he's made that seems like it could be relevant, but he didn't really explain enough. I want to hear more from him and the other players who have been lurking/lurking in plain sight before I cast a real vote.
Unvote
OMG a substantial post. But wait, lets look and see if there's any thing useful in it. Well we have a paragraph on how not all WIFOM is WIFOM because some WIFOM is more WIFOM than WIFOM. the second paragraph is some crap about how Flavor analysis is bad and more talk about the previous game. FLAVOR ANALYSIS CAN BE HELPFUL AND LEAD TO RELEVANT INFORMATION, VOTING BASED ON FLAVOR ALONE IS CRAZY AND IF YOU DO IT YOU SHOULD CASTRATED. See the difference? All in all, another not so useful or informative post.
Post 9 (about 40 minutes later)
RestFermata wrote:Well, I suppose you
could
play this game ignoring everything subject to WIFOM. But I think as long as you take WIFOM arguments with a grain of salt, they can be OK. And if you take them with a grain of salt, no one should be dragged into long boring arguments that cause players to flake. As long as you understand what WIFOM is, it shouldn't get that far.
Basically, though, I believe that we should take each WIFOM on an individual basis, as E_K is doing with Kmd's statement.
I do have a few questions for Kmd, all soaked in wine. Kmd, why would you be voting Zilla if you were scum? Would you also be voting Zilla if you both were scum? Could sitting back and let Zilla and the other players tear each other apart while standing aside out of the fray also be a good tactic?
Here's some more arguing about WIFOM. (any chance of you talking about soemthing SPECIFIC and relevant to this game?) The we have some weird circular questions directed at KMD about if he were scum would he vote Zilla. Ok how bout if you were both scum? Now, what if you were a Wombat, and Zilla was the Child Like Empress, would you vote Zilla then? oy. Lots of words, almost no content.
Post 10
RestFermata wrote:charter wrote:Like I said, you basically either see how that makes him scum, or you don't. I promise you this is different that when townies say it. Though I can't really prove it or anything until he's dead.
So let's see...you somehow know that NO townie would phrase this in the way Wolf did, but you can't back it up. You appear way too sure that wolf is scum at this point for what looks like a pretty trivial reason to me.
hey, look, she did something smart and game relevant. She called BS on Charter's attack on Wolf. Congrats. 11 posts in nad you have a post helpful to the progression of the game.
Post 11
RestFermata wrote:Sorry for lurking. I have a competition this Saturday. I'll post as I can.
A "ill post later guys" post.
Post 12
RestFermata wrote:Why is Hybris' defense of Wolf scummier than, say, Kmd's?
Not a terrible question, but seems to be more of a "pay no attenton to the lurker behind the curtain" post.
Post 13
RestFermata wrote:I'm really coming back, I promise.
Yea, I feel like I've heard this all before.
Post 14
RestFermata wrote:Good news. I just asked for replacement in two of my games. So maybe I can contribute more in this one soon so I won't be a lurking loser anymore.
Bad news, you've still only made one useful post
Post 15
RestFermata wrote:All right, guys, I'm back. And hungry. I'm finally catching up on this game. Large games are difficult for me, so bear with me. And my name is
R-e-s-t-F-e-r-m-a-t-a.
I know it is weird, but it's a music thing. And I'm a nerd, so it irks me a little when people say things like RestFeramenta and RestaFermama and whatnot. So if it's difficult, RF will do. OK I'll stop being a bitch now.
I'm a newbie, but from what I've seen in games so far people who act annoying like PP often end up being town. It's frustrating because acting that way is really easy and makes it difficult to get a read, but I don't think PP would be the best D1 lynch.
I don't like this post by xtoxm:
Xtoxm wrote:Charter is the most pro-town player here, and Poro voting him makes me suspicious of him.
Charter is the most pro-town player here? Says who? Says you? Why? Sorry, but everyone doesn't have to listen to King Xtoxm. I'm a little iffy about charter myself because I see the "especially if you're town" psuedo-slip as a little bit of a stretch. I don't mind when people reach a little, but I think they should acknowledge that they are reaching rather than proclaiming their word as law. So it's pretty much the same problem between Xtoxm and charter right now. That might be why Xtoxm is so eager to accept charter as town.
Llama seems pretty pro-town to me. I'm getting genuine vibes from him at this point. However, I've never encountered him as scum. Actually I imagine that he is a pretty good player, scum or town, so it might be difficult to tell. Still, not seeing anything suspect from him. Maybe I'll give him a scum meta later to see if I really should be feeling so comfortable at this point.
I also like populartajo. At first something about him rubbed me wrong, but actually I see him as having pro-town commentary. He says what he means and doesn't mince words. That leaves very little for scum to hide behind.
I'm not sure I like Zilla either. The whole Hybris/Zilla idea seems to hold water. (Chainsaw defense from the wiki, anybody?) Also, I don't like people who do things like this:
Zilla wrote:Unvote: Charter
Vote: The Internet
I'm unvoting Charter because, even though he argued horribly and his exact argument has no basis, I'm now more suspicious of wolfram than before. Focusing on "especially if you are town" was wrong, and that alone is totally not convincing. The "you can be scum, so I'm voting you" on the other hand is more convincing.
Actually, come to think of it.
unvote: The Internet
Vote: Wolframnhart
NOTE I CLOSED A TAG HERE THAT WAS ORIGINALLY NOT CLOSED, I HAVE NOT ALTERED THE CONTENT OF THE POST
Those sorts of things seem contrived to me. If you change your mind about who you want to vote for, that's what the backspace key is for. I feel like it's a little bit like saying "look at all the free thinking I'm doing! You can follow my completely honest train of thought from start to finish!" Unlike charter, I will admit that this is a bit of a stretch, but it's just my feeling. However, he does give an explanation:
Zilla wrote: left it in there because it wasn't detrimental or contradictory, but I didn't feel like elaborating on The Internet because I had already accused him of not contributing and I'm finding Puta's just being an attention whore for now. The Internet then goes on to post his read on people, which I found very helpful, so he's not on my list anymore, but prior to that, he was my number 2, so I was falling back on him. I also kept it in because it's extra information about where I stand on things, which can't be bad to include.
I'm sorry, but even considering this, I can't imagine a case in which I would actually type the words "Actually, come to think of it" and unvote the person that I voted in the SAME POST. I don't know, it just seems like he was trying too hard.
I'll have more on Hybris later. Besides defending Zilla, I haven't gone over his posts a lot.
TM is probably the scummiest player in the game right now. All he does is yammer on about post restrictions. He also seems to be dripping in hypocrisy, voting Coheed for putting a 4th vote on Xtoxm in the random voting stage, and yet putting on an apparently random vote
beyond
the random voting stage and leaving it there with no explanation other than "Hybris is scum." Not only did he do that, but he then went on to say that he was just saying that to appease us. Guess he doesn't REALLY think that Hybris is scum...wow. I disagree with LF in a way. He's not just unhelpful. He's downright scummy. Double standards are scummy. Voting people for no reason and leaving those votes there is scummy.
Vote: TonyMontana
I'll be back later...after I go grab some dinner.
Ok, so we start out with apologies. Then we quickly move into sarcastic attacks on xtoxm, WHICH I LOVE. You should be sassy more often RF, it makes your posts worth reading. Good job pointing out the Oddity in Zilla's post with the unvote, vote, unvote, vote all in one.
Post 16
RestFermata wrote:Hybris, the contradiction is nullified by the fact that I was quoting someone else. I just messed up the quote tags.
Explains the messed up quote tags
Post 17
RestFermata wrote:EBWOP. Sorry, you caught that a long time ago. Whoops.
Another post about the messed up quote tags
Post 18
RestFermata wrote:Kmd, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Can you explain this T/D method, why it is so accurate, and why Porochaz's answer implicates him?
Askinga bout the Truth/Dare attack KMD made (which was silly). An understandable question, but not really a useful post.
Post 19
RestFermata wrote:What are we supposed to do? Ignore his scumminess because he is always scummy? Let him get away with anything just because his meta suggests that he is always anti-town? If he is scum and people are going to give him a pass because he has an anti-town meta, this game will be a breeze for him.
What I can only assume is a string of questions about why GimboAlt was allowed to live as long as it was.
Post 20
RestFermata wrote:Why did the "No" confirm Waar as town in that game? Was that also meta-based?
And what if I said Dare?
more questions about the T/D attack against prozac.
Post 21
RestFermata wrote:Tajo: Heh, I'm going to take that as a compliment!
Internet: Nothing really changed, I just made my first non-random vote, a little late since I was having trouble keeping up with my games.
NO CONTENT
Post 22
RestFermata wrote:Yeah unless there's some big secret about it, I don't understand why Kmd is being so vague about the whole Truth or Dare deal.
NO CONTENT
Post 23
RestFermata wrote:Is that how Truth or Dare always works?
WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE DAMN TRUTH OR DARE ATTACK.
Post 24
RestFermata wrote:Sorry, we don't have the "archives upgrade."
Whoosit now?
Post 25
RestFermata wrote:I think what Zilla means by "acting town" is not that Llama is "too town", but that his townieness is an act. Anyway I disagree. For now I'm going to call Llama legit. He acted similarly in the last Family Guy game. I still think that TM is a good choice. Going to stand by my vote. Nothing's changed other than the (premature) claim.
Trying to explain what other people said? How is this helpful?
Post 26
RestFermata wrote:Sorry, over Thanksgiving I've been procrastinating paying attention to this large game. Going to set aside some time for this.
No Content
Post 27
RestFermata wrote:Well if I don't deliver soon, feel free to put me on the chopping block. I'm a busy lady, but I try to keep my promises even if I do so too late.
No Content.
Post 28
RestFermata wrote:TheInternet's non-committal cases don't really light up my scumdar. Maybe it's just because I've always been accused of being non-committal as town. CC is tickling it a little, mostly because he accused TM of being openly anti-town while TI was just lurking, then switched his vote to the TI wagon because of it being more "clearly explained for him." He didn't elaborate on what this entailed, who did the explaining, or why he should trust their judgment.
People that I think are town: Llama, Kmd, forbiddan, populartajo, and I'm starting to get a town read from Zilla as well.
People I'm unsure of: wolf, charter, the player formerly known as Puta Puta, E_K, Poro, xtoxm (he did say during FG mini that this was the most fun he'd had in a mafia game, so I find his activity there to not necessarily be a town meta, but an EXTRAORDINARILY fun game meta) and TI.
People I am getting scum vibes from: TM for reasons previously stated, and Hybris (for often defending other players, as was stated before).
There is a LOT of neutrals. I am definitely going to have to elaborate on these and maybe I can discover something new. Bear with me, I know I've been absent a lot but I have trouble keeping up with large games in general. If anyone has any tips for attacking a large game please let me know because I just get lost and discouraged (that's why I replaced out of another game.)
Listing people in categories of scuminess, again lots of words, not much content
Post 29
RestFermata wrote:Why EK?
five letters and a question mark. GG
Post 30
RestFermata wrote:I take "scumbait" to mean a person that would be an easy scum-driven lynch. This is because they act anti-town, and thus are easy to convince the town to lynch. Scum also often act anti-town, and town will try to convince the rest of town to lynch them. So how is town to tell the difference between scum and scumbait? In my mind if someone acts anti-town, it makes them possible scum. I don't like separating people into different categories of scummy.
YES IF PEOPLE ACT ANTI TOWN THEY SHOULD BE LYNCHED. GO GO GADGET CAPTAIN OBVIOUS.
Post 31
RestFermata wrote:I still feel more strongly about TM than TI. People's defense of him really sounds like "too scummy to be scum" to me. I'm not sure what to think of Llama. Though I am getting a town read on him, he does seem a little overconfident. I'd encourage the town not to follow him just because he is sure of himself. Even if he is town, he may be wrong. I still think TM's scumminess > TI's scumminess. Tomorrow I'm going to take a closer look at some of the more helpful/psuedo-helpful people rather than the lurkers/one-liners.
I'm sorry for checking in with something so short, but I'm low on time.
4 days later we have what amounts to a
comfirm vote
Post 32
RestFermata wrote:I don't know if TM is scum anymore. Though I still find his behavior grossly anti-town, I suppose it is less likely that he is scum now that we know that TI was scum, so I think we should look elsewhere, at least for today. As for my being a viable lynch for today solely based on that, I can only say that TM's behavior was a lot more blatant than TI's scumminess in my eyes, so I tunneled on TM.
Moving on, a lot of Hybris' perceived scumminess stemmed from his defense of Zilla and a possible scumbuddy relationship. Now that Zilla has flipped town, Hybris looks a little better. Just a little.
I'm actually a tad suspicious of wolf right now, to be honest. I'm not sold on his "slip" according to charter, but I don't see him radiating towniness in other respects:
wolframnhart wrote:@Llama
I see your point about The Internet, the scum hunting and quality of posts does need to pick up, and the asking about the deadline. Question from me though is do you feel there is a difference in The Internets posts and Xtoxms?
I know that I pretty much refused to join the TI wagon, so it's hard for me to judge without looking like a hypocrite, but this reads like a deliberate deflection to me now that we know TI was scum and Xtoxm was town. Xtoxm wasn't looking like the epitome of pro-town, but this was the last thing that Wolf said about TI or Xtoxm, leading me to believe that he was simply "throwing that out there." It also looks like a "playing both sides" post.
wolf, directed to Zilla wrote:The way you keep vote hopping around, from hybris, to puta (what is it two, three times now?) yourelf, then TI and me all in one post seems to me more like you are trying to see where you can get a vote to stick, and the one on you could have been more of a hands up in the air i quit move, but it might be more under the frustrated player category.
Also playing both sides. Could be buddying up with Zilla while also trying to throw around suspicion. That looks like wolf is trying to see where he can get
suspicion
to stick rather than votes.
It's a weak case on wolf, but I think we do need to look at the wordier players today and wolf is one of the least townie in my opinion. He hasn't scumhunted much and it seems a little like he's trying to blend in and gain everyone's favor with his "mm, you're suspicious but not really" bit.
So that's my contribution for now.
P.S. We need to hear from bigbaldguy31 today since kloud only posted in the early game and Spolium flaked after his confirmation post.
Hmm why if it isn't a "lets review day one" post.
Post 33
RestFermata wrote:I forgot that wolf was replaced. It's a shame, because it was easy to look back for patterns of behavior. Now it'll be a little more difficult. That said, I still think NS is a good place to look for today. I also want to look at BA, mainly because of an inconsistency that I found between the time he said charter vs. wolf looks like town vs. town and just now, when he said that he always thought the wolf wagon was ridiculous and plans to vote for charter. Looking at connections, TI/BA/NS could all be scumbuddies. They definitely didn't play hardball with each other too much.
hmm, more words, still not much content.
post 34
RestFermata wrote:Being misguided (though I have to mention that we don't
necessarily
know that TM is town) and being deliberately misleading are difficult to tell apart. All I can offer is my honest opinion, take it or leave it.
Well i suppose your honest opinion is better than your dishonest opinion, so thanks for that.
Post 35
RestFermata wrote:God, TM is so scummy. I don't see how you can think that people who thought he was scummier than TI are necessarily mafia, charter. You have to admit that he oozes scum from his pores.
So why aren't you voting TM. if he's SOOOO SCUMMY, why haven't you even thrown an FOS his way?
Post 36
RestFermata wrote:Don't misrepresent me. Never have I said that. I am looking at NS/BA mostly today. I am just saying that there is nothing scummy about thinking TM was scummier than TI.
Ok, so now, TI, TM, BA and I are scum? Well good game. We might as well quit now since you caught us all so succinctly.
Post 37
RestFermata wrote:Well I just played in a game with MafiaSSK. Everyone was like "ignore him, that's what he's like!" "He's just MafiaSSK, he's always scummy." And guess what? He was scum. And we lost because no one could get a read on him. So maybe I'm just a little biased.
oh for the love of god ADD SOMETHING USEFUL TO THE GAME.
Post 38
RestFermata wrote:I'm here
6 letters, and apostrophe, and a smilie. STOP LYING.
Post 39
RestFermata wrote:I have been useful. I just haven't posted in a few days. Give me a break, it's finals week. It's almost over.
And we're back where we started this whole journey.
You have not been useful. You have actively lurked THE WHOLE GAME. Posting often enough to avoid replacement and have made MAYBE, 5 or 6 game relevant, substantial, helpful posts.
This plus your what seemed like an outright refusal to acknowlege the legitimacy of the TheInternet wagon day one equals.........
...........
...........QED.
FIST of suspicion: RestFermata
If it wasn't for Charter's wildly outrageous attack on wolf that he still hasn't let go you'd have my vote.
