Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[Rage]

@Darkdude, when do you plan on roleclaiming?

Unvote: Brain of Wombat/Adel

I'm going to reconsider where my vote should be.

[darkdude]

Oh yeah, well I guess I should...

Ecto and Korts seems to be willing. I'm guessing you're implying the same?

[ThAdmiral]

will post later today

[Korts]

read his posts from when he first joined mafiascum.net. I think of it as a "newbie check". His first posts really strike me as a person with a solid understanding of mafia pretending not to know the jargon. One of his first posts where he asked what it meant to be a lurker really raised a flag in my mind to make me think he is an alt.

Hmm. You have a point. The first game post of his includes a strong accusation of using the newbie card, although I'm not really sure that's such a difficult-to-notice tell. But I've seen him posting pictures of himself in the Put a Face with a Name Thread, and I'm not really convinced any alt would do that in any account other than their main one.

Bold letters are hardly subliminal, or sneaky.

Thus the quotation marks around "sneaky". I was trying to express that I usually read only the body of a quote properly and check the head only if I don't know who it is quoting. To express myself better, I meant that your push of the notion that tubby is to be lynched was put in a place where it is more likely to be skimmed over. Hmm. On second thought, though, this point isn't really worth anything in itself.

No. I am not happy with the answers I've gotten yet.
Also, I'm working my ass off and providing tons of information. That I am willing to lynch darkdude today, but I am not willing to lynch you today, should be enough. Am I really a priority suspect for you right now? I will probably get my alignment revealed soon enough by nk (WIFOM TRAP!) that trying to get me to answer questions is a waste of my time.

I admire what you're trying to achieve here, for which you will be NK-ed (WIFOM TRAP!), and I'm not really suspicious of you; but refusing to address questions because of your imminent NK isn't really going to prove that you're actually going to be NK-ed. I realize you put a lot more effort into this game already than some of us others, but does that really give you a right to refuse answering?

Also, you could've just said "I'm not satisfied with others' answers yet."

Don't think he is scum? I don't recall saying that.

There's just nothing to suggest him being more likely to be scum than other players.

Right now I'm most suspicious of Korts, but even that is mostly gut feeling and guess.

To me Ecto seems like a very tunnel vision stricken

town

. Scum would probably pursue one of the lurkers IMHO.

You may not have said that previously, but you just now contradicted your self. Emphases mine.

You really should claim, darkdude.

[ThAdmiral]

Still looking for my last three games as mafia. I don't remember these things at the best of times, but I reckon I will find them.

Anything else while I'm at it?

[TDC]

Vote Count

darkdude (2): Ectomancer, Korts
IH (2): darkdude, tubby216
Adel (1): insanepenguin02
tubby216 (1): Adel

Not voting (4): IH, Sweenytodd, ThAdmiral, Rage

Prodding Sweenytodd.

edit: insanepenguin02 replaces chuckrock. Still searching replacement for IH.

[insanepenguin02]

Hello all! First thing of business:

UNVOTE

[ThAdmiral]

here are my last three games as scum:
(i realised I could look through all my old posts through my profile)

friends and enemies 2.0
strawberry mafia
texas justice mafia

[insanepenguin02]

So who should I vote for?

[Korts]

@Adel:

In another game I'm following (Xyl's Relative Chaos), tubby recently posted this (I made sure I'm not breaking the rules of either TDC or Xyl)

IRC?? is that like through a chat thing ,, no but i do play here,,http://mafialives.darkbb.com/forum.htm

This gives me a pretty fair notion that he isn't an alt. It pretty much justifies the prior knowledge of the newbie card; although I don't know how he didn't know what a lurker is, in that case.

[Adel]

@ ThAdmiral: thanks.

@ insanepenguin02: Welcome to the game! Have you played mafia before? I posted some diagrams on page 16 that may help you read though the game. If you can spot any mistakes on those diagrams, I would appreciate it if you pointed those mistakes out. Please read the entire game carefully before you vote for anyone.

@ Korts: You've almost convinced me that he isn't an alt. You've certainly raised reasonable doubts. I think my case against him is robust enough to still apply even if he isn't an alt.

meanwhile, I still not satisfied with the answers darkdude has applied so far.

[Korts]

@ Korts: You've almost convinced me that he isn't an alt. You've certainly raised reasonable doubts. I think my case against him is robust enough to still apply even if he isn't an alt.

Fair enough. I just thought it was a relevant point.

But darkdude is still a far better lynch; the points against him have been discussed far more extensively and thus his alignment will shed more information, in addition to the fact that lynches started ca. 1 week before the deadline reveal far less information simply due to the fact that they aren't discussed as thoroughly, especially not with the posting frequency this game has.

[Adel]

The reservation I have against lynching darkdude is partially because he is one of the more active players (bothering to post is pro-town, and a game without posting is pretty much a scum auto-win) and his activity level in this game is about the same has activity level in the one other game he is currently playing. If this game had more active players I would be more willing to lynch him.

[Adel]

make that "modding" instead of "playing"

[insanepenguin02]

@ insanepenguin02: Welcome to the game! Have you played mafia before? I posted some diagrams on page 16 that may help you read though the game. If you can spot any mistakes on those diagrams, I would appreciate it if you pointed those mistakes out. Please read the entire game carefully before you vote for anyone.

Thanks, Adel. Yes, I have played in two games thus far. I was just kidding and making myself known by asking that question.

[insanepenguin02]

Well, I love the spreadsheets on page 16! I think with enough reading, I am going to have to make my initial vote:

VOTE: darkdude

Why? Main reason is the suspicion and analysis done behind where darkdude stands. It seems to be pointing in the direction of scum. And knowing exactly where he stands could answer some further questions.

Any other questions for me?

[Korts]

Why are your reasons so vague? Please quote any analyses of his actions you agree with.

[insanepenguin02]

But darkdude is still a far better lynch; the points against him have been discussed far more extensively and thus his alignment will shed more information, in addition to the fact that lynches started ca. 1 week before the deadline reveal far less information simply due to the fact that they aren't discussed as thoroughly, especially not with the posting frequency this game has.

Here was one example.

[Ectomancer]

The reservation I have against lynching darkdude is partially because he is one of the more active players (bothering to post is pro-town, and a game without posting is pretty much a scum auto-win) and his activity level in this game is about the same has activity level in the one other game he is currently playing. If this game had more active players I would be more willing to lynch him.

I dont think I can count the number of times I've felt that this was all that kept me alive as scum. I could pull wild gambits and stay alive so long as I kept active and fighting (never give up, never surrender!). The danger for us is if scum gets involved in an early, intense debate and then things cool down. After that, in my experience, town seems to feel that player has been sufficiently grilled and can usually get near an endgame situation before being studied again.

Activity is a null tell as far as alignment goes, even if the act itself may be pro-town. Otherwise, once we get to endgame, we just lynch the least active player FTW!

[Korts]

Whoa Ecto. Slow down. Drawing the conclusion that since your own personal play is so and so thus everyone's play is so and so is a huge fallacy. In general, low activity is a slight scumtell. Only after that comes any personal meta. Either you're protecting an inactive or unresponsive player (tubby, any of the incarnations of penguin and Sweeneytodd, and maybe ThAdmiral to a lesser extent), or you yourself are trying to keep posting

something

, anything. The remaining 5 or so percent is you being town and not knowing what you're saying.

[Ectomancer]

Uhhh...you're full of it. Activity level is a null tell...period. You can call it pro-town or anti-town, but there is no alignment indication whatsoever.
Oh yeah, rather than coming up with some conspiracy theory, you might consider that

I was pointing out that it is a freaking null tell.

[Ectomancer]

I just looked at my post and your conspiracy theory. You can't even get the right conspiracy theory. If there is one, it would be that if I were scum, I was setting up someone who was active and involved early in the game, but since has retreated into the background. One of my next posts would be me going back and "discovering" the "scummy" player. Of course, I could and DID come up with the same idea as town, so that would be a simple WIFOM.
But even beyond that, the focus of my statement was that being active does not make you town. How do you turn that into being inactive makes you town? You trying to get Tubby, Penguin, or ThAdmiral lynched?

I really hate that you are on my wagon. You must be bussing Darkdude. (Tit for tat conspiracy theory)

[darkdude]

First of all, welcome, insanepenguin!

make that "modding" instead of "playing"

I'm wondering how you can tell just how active a mod is. I mean, all a mod does that is directly visible is a post count every couple of pages...

You may not have said that previously, but you just now contradicted your self. Emphases mine.

You really should claim, darkdude.

lol but you should also note that I have no good suspects at the moment; this is due to the fact that I honestly see all of the active players acting pretty town-like. I know there must be scum among them, so I'm prepared to be wrong, but there's still nothing to make me think Ectomancer is more likely to be scum than most other players.

Aside from those who are voting for me, who think I should role claim now?

[Korts]

Hm. No posting after 2 AM is my new rule. I misread you as trying to suggest that inactivity is more of a towntell than a scumtell. It seemed like such a revelation, too.

Scratch my last post then.

[Ectomancer]

Alrighty.