Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[Kiro]

Nameless: Bleh, I knew it would be an issue. I checked the rules again seeing if it'd be in there, but I didn't catch it. Forgot to read all the Open Role PMs though.

I also made another mistake above. We only had 2 night kills, but it's possible 2 parties went for one person resulting in overkill or they overpowered 1 Doctor protect. In that regards, there is probably no way you can tell if people lie about something regarding either Elvis or Stef. There are too many hidden possibilities with those 2 cases alone.

[Plum]

Rules are clearly stated, Kmd.

Unvotes would be very much appreciated, but not necessary.

You attempt a stunt like that as town you

check

the rules.

Frankly, Kmd, I don't buy your excuse. I think your inability to read throughout this game is an act. You've used it too strategically. You never just make a mistake. You make a mistake that makes someone else look bad, or you make a mistake that would excuse your own scummy behavior. It's all getting to be a little much.

GnK, please quantify this statement with other examples of Kmd's mistakes, etc. Also, as you were pleased that Ani was hammered when Kmd did it, why do you have a problem with the fact that Kmd said it was supposed to be a fake hammer? What do you find scummy about it? Elaborate.

But anyway, based on reactions to the fake hammer that ended up counting, I think GnK and Kiro are scum.

I'd go along with you and actually consider you made an honest mistake... except you don't elaborate on your suspicions. You don't point out anything specific about our statements. What you said above is such a blanket statement. You look like you're just giving up. If you're Town, you should realize that there are now 5 Townies, 3 Scum, and 1 SK. This is no time for you to be just passively letting your lynch go if you're Town. Your initial reaction to the day fails.

That. Also:

I see no problems claiming night actions. If two people claim vig, we have a 50% chance of catching scum in it.

I don't like your nonchalance about this. A mislynch today may very well mean a town loss, especially now that we only have one vig. Massclaim might have merits, which I'm still debating with myself, but while the scenario you outlined above might be the best we can do, I certainly do see a problem with it.

I don't think Kmd is scummy for hammering. I am pretty sure scum is on the wagon somehow...or WAS.

Qualify that with a case. Also, why do you see nothing suspicious in a hammer directly after a Vig claim?

Also, for now I think that if we're considering protect-claims - either massclaim or nothing might be the way to go. I simply don't see us gaining enough info relative to the scum's info gain to make it worth it; massclaim might pay us better in risk-to-information-gained. With protect-claim there are plenty of lies scum can make to get out of it without revealing themselves, resulting in us gaining little information. If it's info we're after, massclaim is what we should be considering.

I don't advocate a massclaim quite yet, though.

[Kmd4390]

Nameless, I wanted to fake hammer for reactions. I screwed up. Not much more I can say.

Plum, yes I screwed up. I've never seen unvotes not be needed. I didn't check because I didn't think it was a possibility.

Plum again, what is the problem with my scenario? 50% is great odds in mafia.

[Nameless]

Nameless, I wanted to fake hammer for reactions. I screwed up. Not much more I can say.

... and you're supposed to be explaining also why you felt the need to hammer Ani the moment he claimed vig rather than let most players even SEE the claim before twilight. And then elaborate on your apparent suspicions of GK and Kiro (you're opinion sure as hell are not clear on this, actually).

Now THIS is a situation where a skeptical smiley is justified.

[Kmd4390]

If I answered in that context, I'd be lying. I wanted to fake hammer for reactions. No one will believe a case coming from me right now, so I have no reason to make one.

[Wall-E]

If I answered in that context, I'd be lying. I wanted to fake hammer for reactions. No one will believe a case coming from me right now, so I have no reason to make one.

False.

If you die and flip town it will give us something to think about.

unvote: vote: KMD

[Kmd4390]

Ok. I'm as good as lynched anyway.

Vote Kmd4390

For the record, the hammer

was

actually supposed to be a fake hammer on Anim. I didn't lie about that.

[orangepenguin]

*sigh*

Yes, KMD looked suspicious for hammering the animorph post-claim. Typically, people don't hammer people who claim power roles, unless they know they are lying. But the way animorph was playing, maybe kmd didn't believe him? I don't know. But I have done in another game, purposely not unvote so my vote wouldn't count as a game tactic, however, it wasn't a hammer, it was something like the second or third vote day 1, and was meant for reactions. Yes, I agree that KMD should've read the rules more closely before doing something so ..major, but most mods tend to require unvotes, so I feel he honestly felt it wouldn't count.

The way the wagon on him..and now..hammer? has grown is kind of ridiculous. Considering the day just started, I would expect more discussion at this point, instead of constant wagoning.

Who knows, maybe kmd is scum. I am not claiming he is scum. But I don't think he should be hammered just because of it. animorph was scummy. He just happened to be a major pro-town role. He should've done more to prevent his own lynch. I just think with more discussion, we can lynch scum today, and hopefully reverse what happened yesterday.

[Wall-E]

UNVOTE

Wth KMD what's with voting yourself?!?

Gah. I'm going to put you all on timeout until someone makes some sense in here.

[Kmd4390]

UNVOTE

Too late. Nameless, Plum, Gnk, Wall-E, Kmd.

5 votes to lynch.

[Wall-E]

if you are town i'm going to strangle you

[orangepenguin]

UNVOTE

Too late. Nameless, Plum, Gnk, Wall-E, Kmd.

5 votes to lynch.

Well, since you're dead, are you scum?

[Mirth]

"Damnit, that was fast. Unlike some medics who need to step on it"

Vote Count

Kmd - 5 - [Nameless, Plum, GnKoichi, Wall-E, Kmd

Death scene next post

[Mirth]

After going through an archive of medical miracles as part of their studies, the interns decided that they might have to test this case to see if it was really possible to survive such an injury *and* have most of one's sight restored, or if those x ray photos were faked by the pharmaceutical industry like 99% of all diseases on earth. For some reason, Kmd decided to volunteer himself for the procedure. Once the chair leg was successfully inserted into his skull, Kmd expressed a craving for pickles and chocolate ice cream. It was only then that the rest of the staff realized that he was in the 10th month of pregnancy, and way overdue for a C-section. While rushing him to the operating room to deliver his conjoined triplets, the others forgot about the large piece of metal sticking out of his head. Kmd proceeded to promptly bleed to death from this oversized splinter. The triplets, however, were delivered successfully, and are waiting to be operated on to separate their tonsils.

Kmd, Mafia Goon, Lynched day 2

It is now Night 2. Night choices are due to me no later than Monday, Dec 15, 12:00 AM EST

[Mirth]

Another night crept upon the bloody corridors of the hospital, like a snake creeps along the Sahara sands, slithering and scooting, and leaving fresh sand tracks in its wake as it eyes it's distant prey...oh wait...sorry...wrong narrartion track...

Night descended on the silence like a shroud descending upon the deceased...

Anyways, it was night.

This time, nobody slept...the brutal murders of the night before still resonated in the much-abused minds of the staff members...Andrew Lloyd Weber was just too brutal, too horrible! Each lowly little medical slave sat hunched up in a corner, trying to avoid the foul beasts who were capable of such treachery, quiet as lowly field mice.

Orangepenguin was not quiet enough. In fact, he came down with a rather horrid case of hiccups. He tried everything from holding his breath to drinking water upsidedown, but it was no use. He was discovered. The scene the coroner came upon in the morning was too horrible to describe, but it involved a slinky, five all beef hot dogs, ten feet of rubber tubing, a llama's detached head, a video of a horrible medical drama, a balloon giraffe, edible underwear, and a live baby pygmy elephant. Even after minutes of investigation, those on the crime scene were still left wondering about those hot dogs.

Hearing Orangepenguin's screams in the background, Charter decided it would be a perfect time to practice his Christina Aguilera impression. After all, one set of loud, obnoxious shreiking couldnt be distinguished from another, now could it? Apprently, it could. Charter's secret obsession with the pop diva (he was found wearing about 10 pounds of makeup that needed to be scraped off before the cause of death could be determined) and his transvetitism led to his downfall. Examination of the body revealed no traces of anything unusual, so it was obvious the killer had a secret fetish for Cary Elwes.

Charter, Doctor, Killed Night 2.
Orangepenguin, Doctor, Killed Night 2

"We're getting mighty short on medics here. I might have to start interviewing new interns"

It is now Day 3, with 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

[GnKoichi]

Well, jesus. Are we in a LyLo? Right now we've got two docs and a vig, and there's an SK and two Mafia (one a doc). If we need four to lynch, we NEED the SK to vote with town, and we need to get ALL of town on the same page, unless the Mafia start bussing each other (I doubt they would this late in the game, right?). I think it's in the SK's interest to scum hunt with us at this point, right? A Mafia majority would be bad for him, too, or am I missing something? Or, could we try to lynch the SK? That would leave 2 Mafia at night (at least one protected) and 3 Town (hopefully two protected), with a Mafia kill and a Vig kill. If the Mafia kill goes through, and the Vig kill doesn't (or hits town by mistake), we're pretty much dead. So it seems like we have to lynch Mafia, and deal with the SK later.

All night phase, I was thinking about why Kmd would off himself. This is the only thing I could come up with: We were close to figuring something out. The only other thing discussed was claiming. If he killed himself to prevent the claiming conversation from happening, then we NEED to examine that avenue. I'm perfectly willing to claim first if others are hesitant. In fact, I'll just do it.

I'm a town Doc. Both nights I protected Wall-E.

[Wall-E]

THE ROLES

6 Protown Doctors

Stef - Doctor, Killed Night 1
Elvis_Knits

EdwardElric

Mana_Ku

- Doctor, Killed Night 1
Charter - Doctor, Killed Night 2
Orangepenguin - Doctor, Killed Night 2
????
????

2 Protown Compulsive Vigs

animorpherv1

Puta Puta

- Vigilante, Lynched Day 1
????

1 Compulsive SK

????

2 Mafia Goons

Kmd4390 - Mafia Goon, Lynched Day 2
????

1 Mafia Doctor

????

--

The Suspects:

TonyMontana
Nameless
Wall-E
Plum
Kiro
GnKoichi













We are in lylo. I'll claim vanilla doc. My targets were GnK N1 and nobody N2 because I was

V

acation

/

L

imited

A

ccess.

...I'd like to

Vote: GnKoichi

. Gut, and I'll change it for almost no reason and at the drop of a hat. Charter attacked him repeatedly, KMD tried to get an early wagon on him (a safe move when busing), and he's been commenting on night deaths, which is typically a noob scum tell.

[Kiro]

This is a bad situation, but it's not LYLO. Of course we can't really mess up anymore, but be accurate.

First off, we definitely need Tony's input on these events. He's had virtually no exposure to any part of the game. It's ridiculous that we have yet to get any concrete views from him with half the players already dead. We have a 50/50 chance he's scum and he needs to come forward and share his views if he wants to act like a good Townie. We can't afford having him lurk anymore.

Given that, the quick end to Day 2 really hurt us for any planning that we could have done as well as the above. I'll have to put blame on Wall-E for that, who let KMD hammer himself. I'd let it pass except for the fact that I made the same mistake and corrected it. Even if Wall-E never thought about KMD hammering himself; if he read the thread, he would have realized that I made the same mistake and left a window open for 8 minutes. It's hard to miss my 3 consecutive posts featuring my shaking ass, a vote and an unvote... Wall-E pretty much repeating my mistake is not nooby, it's totally scummy. If you're not going to read the thread, you're just going to doom Town to failure.

Finally, Wall-E, you said you didn't protect Night 2 because you were on V/LA. That is such a lie given you've posted in other topics from Dec. 10 - Dec. 15. If you're a Town Doctor, you don't need to consult anyone else to make your decision. You can reread the last Day's posts (all 25 or so posts) or the entire thread if you really want to, but it shouldn't take you THAT long to figure out a good choice and shoot a quick PM if you've been paying attention to the game. I'd like to see your explanation for that. At this point, what I've stated above as well as you being more of a random distraction rather than an asset to Town in Day 1 is enough for me to vote you.

Vote: Wall-E

Also, why are both of you claiming right now? After the initial talk in Day 2 that massclaiming was a bad idea, why are the first 2 posts of Day 3 showing a damn roleclaim. Doing it without any particular rhyme or reason just seems to indicate you want to show your stance on something. First off, the first thing anyone else is going to think is, "what were your reasons?" If you want to give out who you protected, I'd like to see your reasoning behind why you chose those actions. And the two of you doing it is like an indirect rolefish to get everyone else to do it, including our vigilante. I'd like comments if anyone else should bother revealing their roles or not. At this point, half of them are likely to be lies, maybe more if our vigilante chooses to lie to remain hidden.

[Wall-E]

I can agree with the tone of your post, but the specifics fall short...

I didn't have time while coughing up blood in the ICU to specifically read the entire thread before choosing my night action on N2. Rather than potentially lose the game for us by protecting mafia, I specifically CHOSE not to protect.

I misunderstood LYLO: I thought it meant we

can

lose if we mislynch. Apparently it means we absolutely

WILL

lose if we mislynch. I'll clarify now with a LSooC: Lynch scum or oh crap. I hope that's more accurate, and apologize for my ignorance.

As to your assurance that I had nobody to consult and therefore should have chosen a target N2 if I were town: False choice. It's not "I'm town OR I protected N2" it's "I'm town, and I chose not to protect." False choices are a scumtell.

As to the "not a noob mistake, but a scumplay" I made in voting KMD: He self-voted, which was enough for me to vote him. I don't particularly care for your insistence that NOT voting him would have been a good option. What would that gain us? Were you hoping scum would hammer? Or were you hoping scum would set him up for a self-hammer? Given that you're voting for me, I'm assuming the latter, but as I am town my action disproves your claim that scum would have necessarily done so, so I fail to see the validity of your vote for me. I realize nobody else can come to this conclusion, but I would appreciate if you'd explain further.

To the SK:

If we mislynch and you fail to kill mafia tonight you will lose when the two mafia outnumber the two remaining players tomorrow morning (worst case, you and a townie doc). It therefore behooves you to help us find scum.

Given that, there will be two people trying to cause a mislynch today. Kiro, can you clarify your vote on me? You're mad that I claimed... am I scum for that?

I'd like to hear from TM or he'll be my fallback vote for today. We can't afford to let 1/6th of the town lurk today. I will not be condoning a hammer before all six remaining players have posted at LEAST twice, and would prefer something closer to ten posts from each person.

[Wall-E]

To further tear apart your insistence that my choice not to protect N2 was a scumtell: Don't you think scum would have just faked a protect claim? It's arguably less attention-getting and supremely easy to do. Why confess if I'm scum? Why not just say, "I protected [living player] on N2?"

[TonyMontana]

To the SK:

If we mislynch and you fail to kill mafia tonight you will lose when the two mafia outnumber the two remaining players tomorrow morning (worst case, you and a townie doc). It therefore behooves you to help us find scum.

While the possible outcomes are more numerous than that, I certainly agree that it's in both our and the SK's interest to catch scum today.

I would like to hear from myself too, I'm alittle disgruntled that the day was over before I even got a word in yesterday.
Bedtime now, tho.

[TonyMontana]

Oh and btw, is there any point in massclaiming. I would figure the only person who might not be claiming doc would be the vig, and I dunno if it's benefitial at this point to out the vig.

[Wall-E]

Why not out the vig? There's no way he can be killed with two docs in the town, and the odds are good the mafia will hit the SK (1/3) and the odds are good the SK will hit mafia (2/5)... meanwhile the true vig has a 3/4 chance to target scum, and a 2/4 chance to kill scum.

Let's do some fun math, shall we?

We all claim. The remaining scum claim doc. That makes five docs and a vig. The town docs protect the vig, so he's out of the NK pool. That leaves the mafia three available targets, one of whom is the SK.

The SK, on the other hand, has four targets: The two docs, the mafia, the mafia doc (who will be protecting the mafia). 2/4 chance to hit scum.

To complete the tanglefuck of numbers and ratios:

The SK has a 50% chance to kill scum tonight.
The mafia has a 33% chance to kill scum tonight.
The vig has a 50% chance to kill scum tonight.

All of this is predicated on the vig claiming.

Am I wrong?

[Nameless]

Am I wrong?

Yeah. SK is NK immune, and you're not taking today's lynch into account. Duh / WTF Wall-E.

Jumbled thoughts coming soon!

[Plum]

Well, jesus. Are we in a LyLo? Right now we've got two docs and a vig, and there's an SK and two Mafia (one a doc). If we need four to lynch, we NEED the SK to vote with town, and we need to get ALL of town on the same page, unless the Mafia start bussing each other (I doubt they would this late in the game, right?). I think it's in the SK's interest to scum hunt with us at this point, right? A Mafia majority would be bad for him, too, or am I missing something? Or, could we try to lynch the SK? That would leave 2 Mafia at night (at least one protected) and 3 Town (hopefully two protected), with a Mafia kill and a Vig kill. If the Mafia kill goes through, and the Vig kill doesn't (or hits town by mistake), we're pretty much dead. So it seems like we have to lynch Mafia, and deal with the SK later.

All night phase, I was thinking about why Kmd would off himself. This is the only thing I could come up with: We were close to figuring something out. The only other thing discussed was claiming. If he killed himself to prevent the claiming conversation from happening, then we NEED to examine that avenue. I'm perfectly willing to claim first if others are hesitant. In fact, I'll just do it.

I'm a town Doc. Both nights I protected Wall-E.

Mmmhm. I was so ticked when Kmd self-hammered to cut off the discussion that I threw a disposable waterbottle against the floor so hard it sprung a leak [/useless details, sorry].

I've been thinking about Kmd's fake hammer gambit that allowed us to catch him. He said that 'for the record, the hammer was actually supposed to be a fake hammer on Anim. I didn't lie about that.' Why did he do it? My guess is that as scum he did it to get incriminating reactions. Having said that, he called Kiro and GnK scum at the beginning of Day 2; he similarly attempted to incriminate them late Day 1. It appears to me that it might have been in his best interest to attempt to incriminate one townie (or SK, as he wouldn't know for certain if anyone not on his scumteam was either SK or town) and one scumbuddy to bus. At the very least it appears that he might have wanted to take good advantage of that by bussing one scumbuddy successfully, thus strengthening his town cred, then maybe go for a mislynch on the other. On the basis of that speculation, I would say GnK is more likely his scumbuddy than Kiro is. I speculate that Kmd might have bussed GnK hard early. In either case I think it's not unlikely that Kmd ideally wanted town-cred out of a scumbuddy bus and perhaps an ensuing mislynch out of his fake-hammer gambit.

FOS: GnK

.

Having said that, I have a slight but nagging gut that Kiro's the mafia Doc (which is probably mostly influenced by the early no-protect suggestion; possibly SK, but this gut is not extremely strong). And I'm not sure that either GnK or Kiro was Kmd's scumbuddy. This is a somethimes WIFOM-plagued chunk of thought on why Kmd might have done what he did, and what we can learn from it.

If Kmd was actually lying about not meaning to hammer Ani, I can only conclude that he was scum rather shamelessly trying to off a Vig quick.

As GnK said, we're in LyLo - or LSooC - and must lynch scum if we do not want to deeply, deeply screwed - mafia and not SK, it seems, would be preferable. I wasn't sure whether massclaim was the way to go, but it seems that as we do happen to be in LyLo it might be the thing to do. And after GnK and Wall-E claimed, scum will have an easier time than ever narrowing down who's what (either that or GnK and/or Wall-E are scum trying to bait us for claims. I'm uncertain, though leaning toward saying it's a good idea. Would be nice if others chimed in on the subject. On Wall-E's assertations:

Why not out the vig? There's no way he can be killed with two docs in the town, and the odds are good the mafia will hit the SK (1/3) and the odds are good the SK will hit mafia (2/5)... meanwhile the true vig has a 3/4 chance to target scum, and a 2/4 chance to kill scum.

Let's do some fun math, shall we?

We all claim. The remaining scum claim doc. That makes five docs and a vig. The town docs protect the vig, so he's out of the NK pool. That leaves the mafia three available targets, one of whom is the SK.

The SK, on the other hand, has four targets: The two docs, the mafia, the mafia doc (who will be protecting the mafia). 2/4 chance to hit scum.

To complete the tanglefuck of numbers and ratios:

The SK has a 50% chance to kill scum tonight.
The mafia has a 33% chance to kill scum tonight.
The vig has a 50% chance to kill scum tonight.

All of this is predicated on the vig claiming.

Am I wrong?

Does this plan advocate No Lynch today, assuming we have one Vig claim and Five Doc claims?

Anyway, as you stated, the Mafia Doc will be protecting the other scum, and the SK is NK-immune, etc., so actually

The SK has a 25% chance to kill scum tonight (hits the unprotected Mafia Doc), 50% chance to kill a townie (hits one of the unprotected town Docs), 25% chance to do nothing (hits the protected Mafioso).

The Mafia have a 0% chance to kill scum tonight (SK is immune and they're not shooting one of their own), 66% chance to kill a townie (hits one of the unprotected town Docs), 33% chance to do nothing (hits the SK).

The Vig has a 20% chance to kill scum tonight (hits the unprotected Mafia Doc), 40% chance to kill a townie (hits one of the unprotected town Docs) 40% chance to do nothing (hits protected Mafioso or SK).

It seems that Wall-E was quite wrong and his numbers were screwed. And this is all under the assumption that we No Lynch today, and frankly I don't see immediate benefits to doing that at this point in time. Thanks. In addition to that:

As to the "not a noob mistake, but a scumplay" I made in voting KMD: He self-voted, which was enough for me to vote him.

Whoa, wait. Wait just a second there, Wall-E. Kmd self-voted

after

your L-1 vote. What the heck sort if lie do you think you're trying to pull over in us, I ask you. I'm not sure if outright I would set too much stock by Kiro's suspicion that you helped set up Kmd's self-hammer, but when you slip up

HUGE HOS: Wall-E

. Bet you're glad it's LSooC, as you put it, eh? It may not be LyLo, but as I believe I may have stated before, I'm going to be a little less free with votes and more free with my FOS-sort of accusations today.