Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[darkdude]

Shit, I guess you guys have to lynch me with no other good cases and deadline approaching.

I have no good suspects at the moment, but Korts stands out slightly as I think he's much more insistent with my lynch now than when he first voted for me, and his posts did not indicate a reason for being more confident that I am scum.

[Ectomancer]

I don't see the motivation to bus at this stage. They could have just gone along with one of the other cases and gone into day 3 with all their people alive.

With this level of activity do you think the mafia would really feel the need to bus?

I disagree. The prevalent cases are on a guy who gets replaced a lot, who replaced in for a player who didn't play much and another on an experienced player who just got here, replacing in for a newbie with baggage. Those aren't solid platforms for a lynch. The first would collapse on its own (has anyone ever actually lynched a lurker? on this site?), and the 2nd doesn't have much gas either. Also, as Adel alluded to, rather than launch a campaign to get her lynched, it would be easier to just NK her and lynch a softer target.

But...

Adel will need to provide individual reasonings on both myself and Korts, just in preparation for your anticipated demise. We don't have the luxury of testing us both, and we will have certainly lost the game should Korts prove to be town.

[Korts]

I have no good suspects at the moment, but Korts stands out slightly as I think he's much more insistent with my lynch now than when he first voted for me, and his posts did not indicate a reason for being more confident that I am scum.

The game is in urgent need of something. A lynch, preferably. Every other case presented is far weaker than the one on you. Any case that could've been presented had more than enough time to be phrased. We need to stop milling around and do something.

Ecto, what do you mean that the game is lost if I'm town?

[Ectomancer]

Go re-read, then smack your forehead and say, "Ahh, I got it."

[Korts]

At least tell me which part to reread, I don't have time to do a complete one.

[Ectomancer]

*sigh*

10 players. I think that's 7 town 3 scum right now, assuming a 9 town 3 scum start.

lynch scum today
7-2
NK town tonight
6-2
Lynch Ecto (town) today
5-2
NK town tonight
4-2
Lynch Korts - If Korts turns up town then
3-2
NK town
2-2
Scum wins in endgame.

It wouldn't matter which order we lynched us if you are town and both of us are lynched. The end result would be the same, a loss.

My point here is that we don't have the luxury of testing us both. Therefore, we deserve a pre-mortem assessment from Adel if she believes her demise is eminent.

[Adel]

ok, after darkdude proves to be scum, lynch ecto first!

[Rage]

So your demise isn't eminent.. and you want Ecto lynched tomorrow if Darkdude flips scum. What if he flips town?

[Adel]

thanks for asking that question Rage. it forced me to take a second look at everything, and I don't think that darkdude is the right lynch for today.

unvote, vote:tubby

for:

• 1. lurking through the game without getting replaced
  2. being a possible alt
  3. following my vote onto IH
  4. only voting for a townie on day 1

[tubby216]

thanks for asking that question Rage. it forced me to take a second look at everything, and I don't think that darkdude is the right lynch for today.

unvote, vote:tubby

for:

• 1. lurking through the game without getting replaced
  2. being a possible alt
  3. following my vote onto IH
  4. only voting for a townie on day 1

1)sorry i am really trying here i i know i have neglected this game to say the least, i will do better
2) i am not an alt
3) i felt i should vote him for pressure to resond since he has responded less than i have

[Korts]

2. being a possible alt

How does this even begin to be a scumtell, assuming you're right?

[Adel]

Some players (TSQ being a prime example) adopt alts so they can avoid a meta of lurking as scum, and so when they are lurking we won't be able to call them out on it by pointing out in how many other games they play.

When you compare the set of lurkers with the set of players who are alts (which I don't have hard data for, unfortunately) where those sets overlap players are much more likely to be scum.

3) i felt i should vote him for pressure to resond since he has responded less than i have

Scum players who choose to lurk as a tactic make usually sure they are not the least active player in a game.

The way you and IH always seem to respond in the thread when you

have to

suggests that both of you are following the game much more closely than your activity may suggest.

Were you going to unvote IH as soon as he provided some response?

~~~

@ThAdmiral: please provide links to your last three games as scum.

[tubby216]

yes much like the way i unvoted you once you were contributing

[Korts]

@Adel: I'm not aware that TSQ uses alts to avoid being accused of lurking contrary to his meta. I thought he played with alts mainly because he was tired of being "well-established". See SCAM, his activity in Gangland Mafia seems more than satisfactory to me. I don't know of any other TSQ alts, though, so you may have information that I don't.

Anyway, I see your point better now. Thanks for clarifying; although I still don't follow why you think tubby is an alt. Can you/do you want to elaborate?

I don't really like the implicit suggestion that tubby is now definitely today's lynch, especially in such a "sneaky" way as in a quote tag, however. Like you're trying to plant the thought in others' subconscious.

4. only voting for a townie on day 1

Would you elaborate on this, please?

Also, since everyone who's active and had your previous questions directed at them answered, please answer them yourself, now. I'll quote for your ease:

Who do you think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?

[Adel]

@darkdude: why don't you think Ecto is scum. Please provide specific information. The more quickly you answer and the more information you provide, the less scummy you will appear, and the less likely you will to be lynched today.

Please hurry.

Thanks.

[Adel]

Thanks for clarifying; although I still don't follow why you think tubby is an alt. Can you/do you want to elaborate?

read his posts from when he first joined mafiascum.net. I think of it as a "newbie check". His first posts really strike me as a person with a solid understanding of mafia pretending not to know the jargon. One of his first posts where he asked what it meant to be a lurker really raised a flag in my mind to make me think he is an alt.

I don't really like the implicit suggestion that tubby is now definitely today's lynch, especially in such a "sneaky" way as in a quote tag, however. Like you're trying to plant the thought in others' subconscious.

Bold letters are hardly subliminal, or sneaky.

4. only voting for a townie on day 1

Would you elaborate on this, please?

If a player only casts one vote, and if that vote is for a townie, that player needs to be help accountable. This specific scumtell also applies to chuck,, but was mitigated by chuck asking to be replaced out.

Also, since everyone who's active and had your previous questions directed at them answered, please answer them yourself, now. I'll quote for your ease:

Who do you think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?

No. I am not happy with the answers I've gotten yet.
Also, I'm working my ass off and providing tons of information. That I am willing to lynch darkdude today, but I am not willing to lynch you today, should be enough. Am I really a priority suspect for you right now? I will probably get my alignment revealed soon enough by nk (WIFOM TRAP!) that trying to get me to answer questions is a waste of my time.

[Rage]

The more quickly you answer and the more information you provide,

the less scummy you will appear

, and the less likely you will to be lynched today.

Posting further from the deadline is a towntell?

[TDC]

Vote Count

darkdude (2): Ectomancer, Korts
IH (2): darkdude, tubby216
Adel (2): Rage, chuckrock
tubby216 (1): Adel

Not voting (3): IH, Sweenytodd, ThAdmiral

IH has again not picked up his prod and will be replaced, too.
Sweenytodd is going to be prodded if he doesn't post until tomorrow.

Feel free and help me find replacements, like Adel does.

[darkdude]

@darkdude: why don't you think Ecto is scum. Please provide specific information. The more quickly you answer and the more information you provide, the less scummy you will appear, and the less likely you will to be lynched today.

Don't think he is scum? I don't recall saying that. There's just nothing to suggest him being more likely to be scum than other players. Right now I'm most suspicious of Korts, but even that is mostly gut feeling and guess.

To me Ecto seems like a very tunnel vision stricken town. Scum would probably pursue one of the lurkers IMHO.

[darkdude]

Wait, Rage and Chuck still voting on Adel? For Wombat's mistakes or something else?

[Adel]

The more quickly you answer and the more information you provide,

the less scummy you will appear

, and the less likely you will to be lynched today.

Posting further from the deadline is a towntell?

sort of.

I believe that the difference between being pro-town and anti-town isn't quite the same as the difference between being likely-town and likely-scum.

I think of it like this:


Getting game changing information out in the open while there is still time to analyze it helps the town make a good lynch decision before deadline. (pro-town behavior)

If all he has to do is tell the truth, it shouldn't take him very long to hammer out a rather long and dense post. (pro-town behavior)

If it take him a while (longer than a 12 hours?) to write a really information-rich post (anti-town behavior) then we know that it is more likely that he had to think about and plan his bullshit, and is therefor more likely to be scum.

[Adel]

@darkdude: why don't you think Ecto is scum. Please provide specific information. The more quickly you answer and the more information you provide, the less scummy you will appear, and the less likely you will to be lynched today.

Don't think he is scum? I don't recall saying that.

you didn't explicitly say that. Reading deeply into your posts made me think that you've come to that conclusion. I suspect that you may know that he is town because you are scum, or are scum with him. I'm giving you a chance if you are town to explain how you honestly came to that conclusion.

There's just nothing to suggest him being more likely to be scum than other players.

That is an example of what always strikes me as a bullshit non-answer. Most players make these kind of statements that don't really say anything. I make them as well.

Please try again, if you don't mind, but put some real opinion into it next time.

Right now I'm most suspicious of Korts, but even that is mostly gut feeling and guess.

You are the most likely lynch at this point, and all have to show for whatever effort you've actually placed into finding scum in this game is "gut feeling" and "guess". Have you actually been trying to figure out who is scum in this game?

To me Ecto seems like a very tunnel vision stricken town

WHY?

Scum would probably pursue one of the lurkers IMHO.

how many scum do you think are lurkers right now?
how many scum do you think aren't lurkers?
who do you count as "lurkers"?
who do you count as "not lurkers"?

This is an interrogation. Your continued failure to promptly and fully answer these questions will be considered evidence that you are scum.

[Adel]

Wait, Rage and Chuck still voting on Adel? For Wombat's mistakes or something else?

was this an attempt to distract people away from my attack against you?

you don't need to worry about why people are voting for me right now. please focus on answering my questions for you.

Just to be clear, I have not reached the conclusion that you are scum, but I have generated a couple lines of questioning that should confirm your alignment one way or the other. If you cooperate I should be able to conclude that you are town, and move on to another player.

The faster you answer the better the chances the town has of winning.

[Ectomancer]

@darkdude: why don't you think Ecto is scum. Please provide specific information. The more quickly you answer and the more information you provide, the less scummy you will appear, and the less likely you will to be lynched today.

Don't think he is scum? I don't recall saying that. There's just nothing to suggest him being more likely to be scum than other players. Right now I'm most suspicious of Korts, but even that is mostly gut feeling and guess.

To me Ecto seems like a very tunnel vision stricken town. Scum would probably pursue one of the lurkers IMHO.

I dont recall that either.

That's because I'm convinced that I got you and there is only one way to find out if I'm right. But. I often do the unlikely, so your last sentence is closer to WIFOM in regards to me and my play than might be with others.

I chuckled out loud reading that last sentence in Adel's quote

[darkdude]

That is an example of what always strikes me as a bullshit non-answer. Most players make these kind of statements that don't really say anything. I make them as well.

Well too bad I guess. I've looked over everyone's posts but couldn't find anything I would usually consider scummy. What else could I do?

I haven't seen a good target for Lynch since Puta.

WHY [ecto = tunnelvisioned town]?

I've explained it before. What he considers to be scummy posts from me are all perfectly normal plays by me, and I have explained this well, I think. I cannot comprehend why he is still on me if not for tunnelvision.

how many scum do you think are lurkers right now?
how many scum do you think aren't lurkers?
who do you count as "lurkers"?
who do you count as "not lurkers"?

1. 0 or 1
2. reverse of above
3. chuckrock, gorckat/IH, Tarballs/Lionheart/Sweenytod
4. everyone else

Was there a reason you used 4 questions instead of 2?

was this an attempt to distract people away from my attack against you?

It was an attempt to say whatever's on my mind to leave for the town after I die.