Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[Porkens]

So, wait, you're using my doublevote as an argument to further suppose that I have killing power? I've never seen a role like this before, and I don't think you have - or will - either.

SWW2 Had a SK+JOAT role. Take a look at the last role posted

here

.

As you can tell, I'm really conflicted about Ort. However, his WIFOM in 1122 is pretty good, actually.

[Vi]

Trying to divert suspicion onto me when clearly no-one is going to vote me is not going to help you not get lynched

Getting lynched doesn't prevent my win condition. If what I say now points people in the right direction in the future, it's a net gain.

@Porkens: Well now I have. Although to me the role looks hideously overpowered, and thwarted mostly by the people who wasted it (looking at the players controlling it, I'm not surprised that no night choices were ever submitted).

[ortolan]

If what I say now points people in the right direction in the future, it's a net gain.

and if it diverts suspicion onto me when I'm town (assuming you're town), it's a net loss

[Vi]

If what I say now points people in the right direction in the future, it's a net gain.

and if it diverts suspicion onto me when I'm town (assuming you're town), it's a net loss

So knowing that this reciprocal relationship exists, what would you do with the suspicion?

[ortolan]

I've already said I'm not at all convinced you're scum, but as has been pointed out I'm not sure what the risk of testing you out is. I think the most likely scenario is no SK, 3-man scum team consisting of MafiaSSK, geraintm and Illumina.

[Porkens]

9 townies, 3 scum? Now

that

would seem more unbalanced against the scum, to me.

Honestly, I think the scum has had to put up with a lot of bad already: Rule changing, bad/no/typo safeclaims, etc.

Ok, this idea has been bothering me for some time as well; If you (plural) think it is just a 3-scum team; How did they get an extra nightkill? And

why

hadn't they been using it since the beginning?

[Vi]

Ok, this idea has been bothering me for some time as well; If you (plural) think it is just a 3-scum team; How did they get an extra nightkill? And

why

hadn't they been using it since the beginning?

One-shot extra.

I thought 9 vs. 3 was standard.

[Illumina]

In this setup a 3rd party would need to be quite powerful in order to have a hope of winning.

An SK would need to convince the town to give them the serum.

These two things seem very contradictory to me, especially if you need to continue receiving the serum if you receive it more than once.

Synthing gerintm while testing Illumina would have been a better play, as I find Illuminas claim way less convincing.

Why am I not surprised you think so? Tell me how exactly mycosynthing a golem

already made of mycosynth

is supposed to work? Then try to tell me his claim is more convincing than mine.

[ortolan]

9 v 3 is standard. And the scum additionally I would think get an advantage through having a higher proportion of their players being metal. Plus I highly doubt Natirasha took into account the possibility of making a mistake on the safeclaims when designing the setup.

Why am I not surprised you think so? Tell me how exactly mycosynthing a golem already made of mycosynth is supposed to work? Then try to tell me his claim is more convincing than mine.

Whether his claim is real or fake, I'm sure Natirasha wrote it. Thus it's either his actual role or Natirasha thought it plausible as a safe-claim. Either way I don't think you can read anything into it- I am inclined to interpret the capitalised T in yours and his role pms as incriminating however. Why do you think they're in there?

[geraintm]

ok,am back, have read as best i can the 5 pages of posts over the weekend
i am sorry if i was too hasty with my post on friday, i thought it was my last post before deadline and so i got it out.
will catch up with a longer post today sometime

[geraintm]

Ok, first thing to say, i didn't realise when i voted that he was so close to getting lynched. i was rushing my post before i went away for the weekend. i actually thought i was sythed already and my vote wouldn't have changed that
i didn't think i was cutting things off at the end of the day, i thought Ill would have chance to post, but i wouldn't have time to get involved before the end of the day again and wanted to have some votes up.

he has claimed metal, so i want him to suffer something tonight
can i do this?

Um...what do you mean?

i meant vote for both sything and lynching.
i wasn't clear he was metal, the card isn't an artefact,

Besides which: though killing an SK would be fine, we're better off going after mafia anyway. And as stated, you don't really fit the bill there. I'm puzzled as to why everyone is voting you and ignoring the people who delayed their claims...

Argh, you still think i delayed my claim??

Wow.

Geraintm has lurked, delayed his claim as long as he could, claimed a weird mycosynth metal golem (ignoring that those two things destroy each other...), and was caught in the act of hammering! What more do we need to see that he's the obvious play for today?

please show me the posts where i delayed my claim. i am frankly sick of your posts harping on about this. every time i have asked you about this, you haven't responded. shut up about it or show me
what do you mean, my claim is weird. go look up the card. it exists. it was the role i was sent. why on earth is it weird? have you seen what everyone is? elves, three armed robots...

Re: claiming wrong flesh/metal.
are you trying to confuse everyone? if i did that and got caught out, i'd be dead. if there was a metal detector in the game ( i suspect that could be someone's serumed role) i would get caught in a lie and be dead. are you just trying to through more mud in people's eyes?
what is it that you have against me????

Yes, but my impression was that people wanted to lynch me because they didn't believe my metal claim. I think geraintm's claim is more suspicious than mine, and no one seems as interested in his, which seems weird to me.

why is mine suspicious, i claimed a role which was an artefact
you claimed a role which was a zombie but is also metal. that makes no sense unless someone made you metal
but you haven't explained how that happened
i cant believe mod would give someone a role and get their metalness wrong

Hmm. In my tendency to speculate hugely I had considered that Memnarch has an ability to try to target me, and gains something from doing so (as my flavour says he is "chasing" me) and that in fact Gremwell was *my* metal body double- who somehow was sacrificed when Memnarch tried to target me (even though I was immune any way). In which case if I end up between copper bread buns tonight and we've lynched you then town will lose.

so you think the scum targeted you and killed someone else? and that is why gremwell died? you think that is more likely that a SK?

Illumia - your post 1091 best one i read for a while, the examination of Porkens made kinda sense

post 1096
what was the pattern you found? what was the interesting stuff??

post 1117 almost seems to be advocating not lynching a mafia tonight?

What kind of lame SK role

requires

the serum to operate? If you do not think it's serum-dependent, what reason are you willing to give for the prevention of an NK N1 (remembering that the N2 hit pierced metal)?

one where mod wanted to make the serum interesting and important to the game. he obv seems to get off on the randomness of the effects of people being serumed. i think he worked out there were good odds with 2 lots of serum of the SK being triggered before the game ended

Ok, this idea has been bothering me for some time as well; If you (plural) think it is just a 3-scum team; How did they get an extra nightkill? And

why

hadn't they been using it since the beginning?

One-shot extra.

I thought 9 vs. 3 was standard.

i think S is more likely that one shot extra NK for the scum. never seen mafia get that power before in a game, seen SKers

Ok, people have asked who i think scummiest.
illumia by far. my last post showed that, and that hasn't changed over the weekend
I think there is a SK. i think if VI was the SK, that would be very overpowered role with double votes and SK.
Got to stop writing now as near end of day for me

[CF Riot]

Okay deadline is tonight. We need to make up our minds. For me, it's:
lynch TM>/=lynch Vi>>>lynch Ger/possible no-lynch.

I've flip-flopped on who's the better lynch of TM and Vi a few times now so they're practically equal. I think TM could be partnered with Ill or Ger, and I think Vi would be paired only with Vi, so I think a TM lynch is safer. Then again you have to account for Vi possibly being the SK, and if he is then lynching him is safer because there will be fewer kills. However, I think given the situation, Hypothetical-SK needs to aim for mafia tonight to increase his chance of winning in endgame, so that's partial reason to leave Vi.

On the whole even odd thing, if you have 4 town 2 scum you have a 33.3% chance of hitting scum, ignoring deductive evidence from the game. If you have 3 town 2 scum (odd) you have 40.0% chance of hitting scum. If we no-lynched today, then assuming only 1 NK tonight, it would be to the town's advantage to no-lynch again tomorrow to put us back at odd numbers. However, that means scum gets to NK two nights in a row with no lynches. I would rather lynch today and let the scum only get 1 NK, and still be at odd numbers.

Mod: Vote Count plz

[Illumina]

I appreciate that you're in a different timezone, but it seemed like there were multiple days between the massclaim beginning and you posting, so I took that to indicate stalling for time, so that others would claim first. If you were legitimately out for that long, then I suppose it doesn't indicate anything. But we don't know for sure either way, so that's a bit of wifom.

And your role is an artifact, sure, but a really nonsensical one (note that Gremwell's role didn't appear to be an artifact, either). While Nim are creatures naturally imbued with metal (due to the Mephidross swamp, which has toxic necrogen that causes metal buildup in the body [see Wikipedia]), yours is a metal golem made with a substance specifically designed to destroy metal. It'd be like an ice golem with a heart of fire. Thus, you can't (and didn't) really answer my question with a straight face: how

are

you supposed to myco a metal golem made of mycosynth?

[Nicol Bolas]

Vote Count
Vi(2): Porkens, ortolan
TonyMontana(2): Vi
geraintm(1): Illumina
Not Voting(5): TonyMontana, geraintm, CF Riot

Serum Count
Porkens(4): CF Riot, Vi, Porkens
Not Seruming(5): Illumina, TonyMontana, Porkens, geraintm, ortolan
Porkens has reached a majority of serum votes.

Synth Count
Illumina(4): Vi, CF Riot, Porkens
Not Synthing(5): Illumina, TonyMontana, Porkens, geraintm, ortolan
Illumina has reached a majority of mycosynth votes.

[CF Riot]

Ill, of TM or Vi, who would you rather lynch today, if Ger was completely off the table?

Ger what about you, TM or Vi if they were the only two options?

I also meant to say earlier that I've seen games where when 1 scum dies, the remaining team members get an extra kill that night. Just sayin'.

[Vi]

i am sorry if i was too hasty with my post on friday, i thought it was my last post before deadline and so i got it out.

Remind me to post that this is one of the things I hate in MD.
If you're not abs. confident in what you're doing, don't put down permanent votes. Until N.B. made some executive decisions, it was quite likely that you messed us all over. Luckily, it didn't turn out to be the case.

VI

Daykill: geraintm

geraintm, how much do you know about Magic: The Gathering? 'Just curious.

Argh, you still think i delayed my claim??

tbqh I'd back you on this rebuttal.

i think he worked out there were good odds with 2 lots of serum of the SK being triggered before the game ended

A neutral survivor with a one-shot-per-serum kill? That's even worse; try to think of the winning strategy for that and you'll see what I mean.

Re: even/odd numbers: That's assuming we're voting randomly. I always thought of it as requiring one extra person to lynch, which isn't necessarily bad (although apparently people disagree, especially with 3 Town vs. 1 scum in 4-person LyLo...)
But what do I know; I'm still learning this game almost half a year in :v

[Illumina]

I might favor Vi if it weren't for the possibility of insta-loss tonight, and the fact that I suspect a TM/Ger scum team that could skate by without giving us enough time to myco and lynch them both. Testing TM seems to be just as useful as testing Ger, so I could go for TM today without qualms (as previously stated).

Your argument that an SK Vi would favor killing scum over town tonight also makes a lot of sense.

[ortolan]

How do we "test" TM's flesh claim by lynching him? If he's telling the truth he...dies.

[Illumina]

I don't think he is telling the truth, but that's also why I think lynching geraintm makes for a safer play that's better than a strict no-lynch. (My theory is that if TM is scum, he'd fakeclaim metal to distract us)

[Porkens]

How do we "test" TM's flesh claim by lynching him? If he's telling the truth he...dies.

qft.

illumina is scum, no one has presented a compelling argument otherwise. It's a real pitty the votes are locked in this time.

[/u]If we lynch Ger, we better hope he is metal. -OR- If Ger Dies, the town looses all power.[/u]

If we lynch Ger and he dies, the sk will probably hit town;

1 maf, 1 sk, 2 town - town loss.


If Ger doesn't die; the sk will probably hit scum;

1 maf, 1 sk, 3 town - lylo (two killing factions left).

If we lynch the SK;

2 maf, 3 town - lylo (one killing faction with illumina ready to be lynched).

[ortolan]

I have no desire to lynch TM currently.

I am torn between lynching Vi (quite probable he is town and if he flips as such then I will look like the SK) vs not lynching (still possibly scum aligned and we may have just given him the game)

[Vi]

If we lynch the SK;

Without naming any names, of course.

While I realize that you like wearing your tinfoil hat, you're assuming that there exists an SK. Without doing so, your chances look noticeably better than the doomsday predictions you're making.

Also obligatory I'm-Not-The-SK spiel, etc. Porkens's reason for me being the SK is all OMGUS and WIFOM and SETUP and KEKEKE. But whatever suits you for being a "compelling argument", especially considering the obvious notion that an SK would get a falseclaim.

[Illumina]

Porkens: That's quite the gambit. You'd have to be right that

1)

there is an SK,

2)

the SK is Vi, and

3)

I am also scum.

If there is no SK, then TM or geraintm would be optimal plays.

If there is an SK, you'd have to be correct that it's Vi

and

I'm scum, or town loses.

[Porkens]

w/e

[ortolan]

the setup-WIFOM is agonising