Mini 698 - Georgetown Mafia - Game over

qwints · Post Post #625 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:37 am

It's probably a bad idea to hammer given jazz's catching up and MM being replaced.

ISO · Post Post #626 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:44 am

MM's being replaced? Wow, I missed that.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #627 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:46 am

qwints wrote:It's probably a bad idea to hammer given jazz's catching up and MM being replaced.

If my count is correct, qwints, you just did so. Congratulations.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #628 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:49 am

StrangerCoug wrote:
qwints wrote:It's probably a bad idea to hammer given jazz's catching up and MM being replaced.
If my count is correct, qwints, you just did so. Congratulations.

It's not. Missed the unvote before the vote (and hadn't you unvoted, you would already have been voting Apothecary).

Apothecary · Post Post #629 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:59 am

Just out of interest qwints, how would you defend yourself in a situation like this?

qwints · Post Post #630 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:23 am

If my early play really was as disinterested as you say yours was, I would re-read the game and give new analysis. Even if it fails to save you, it gives the town confirmed townie analysis after your lynch. And you just might convince us that you are a pro-town player who simply didn't put any effort into the game earlier.

Here are some sample questions:
1) What is your current opinion of SC's claim?
2) Who should we lynch instead of you?
3) What do you think of the LlamaFluff/Ythill arguments?

Ythill · Post Post #631 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:27 pm

There it is again.

@ qwints: Why are you acting as if you know Rx is town? If you think he's town, why are you voting him? If you think he's scum, why are you coaching him? Why bring up the SC claim now, other than to smokescreen?

unvote: vote qwints

StrangerCoug · Post Post #632 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:31 pm

How hard is it to kill Apothecary, for the love of the mod?

Elmo · Post Post #633 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm

Huntress wrote:
MiteyMouse has asked for a replacement. I am looking for one now.

OMFG ELMO IS ONTO MEEE !!!

Proof that SC is an evil villain here. I guess that makes Apothecary the valiant hero of the piece.

I should totally be more helpful, but my head is killing me.

qwints · Post Post #634 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:02 pm

I'm taking him at face value. He asked me what I would do in a "situation like this." I took that to mean what I would do if I was town (as he has claimed) and was close to being lynched. I answered the question in the hope of improving his play in the future.

I still think that he's the most likely to be scum and I don't think anything he says as a result of my "coaching" is going to hurt the town given his rapidly impending lynch.

Ythill · Post Post #635 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:08 pm

Rx wrote:I'm taking him at face value. He asked me what I would do in a "situation like this." I took that to mean what I would do if I was town (as he has claimed) and was close to being lynched. I answered the question in the hope of improving his play in the future.

Yet if he's scum, which you claim to believe, then his townie play isn't being questioned. If he's been caught being scummy because he's mafia, it doesn't make sense to want to improve his play as hypothetical town, because you don't know how he plays as town. You simply don't have the mannerisms of a player who believes Rx is scum, yet you are voting him. Considering my earlier suspicion on Atlas, this rings alarm bells for me. Especially since Rx is the easy lynch of the day which, in my experience, is to be distrusted.

The thing about Rx is that his excuses, though they demonstrate that he is a player who would be worthwhile as town only because he boosts our numbers, are plausible. Atlas never did convince me that his push on Primate was anything but scum tactics and you, qwints, are confirming my suspicions.

I suggest that the rest of you get Rx under 4 votes and join me on this one. Rx might be scum or he might be a bad townie. Atlas/qwints has played more carefully, but is, IMO, more likley to flip scum.

And for those of you who suspect SC, what do you think of his push on Rx?

MacavityLock · Post Post #636 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:06 pm

Ythill wrote:I suggest that the rest of you get Rx under 4 votes and join me on this one. Rx might be scum or he might be a bad townie. Atlas/qwints has played more carefully, but is, IMO, more likley to flip scum.

Bandwagons that don't start until this close to deadline are dangerous, and if we do end up lynching Apoth and he flips scum, I'll be looking very closely at you. Conversely, if Apoth flips town, I think that your points on qwintz and his presupposing Apoth-town aren't bad ones, and I'll be looking at him. Yay for day 2 targets!

By the way, I have finals all next week, and I've been studying, so I haven't been as on top of this game as I'd like to be. I'm happy with an Apoth lynch today, and it's highly unlikely that I'll either move my vote, or even check in much before deadline. Sorry about this.

Ythill · Post Post #637 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:12 pm

Mac wrote:Bandwagons that don't start until this close to deadline are dangerous...

True, but the evidence came at this time. The easy lynch is often dangerous as well.

Mac wrote:...if we do end up lynching Apoth and he flips scum, I'll be looking very closely at you.

I hope you'll be looking closely at me either way, but Rx as scum is hardly a reason to suspect me more. Meta me. If I was scum and had a buddy getting half as much attention as Rx, chances are we'd have hung him already, and I would have been one of the loudest supporters.

I am town, meaning that I have no idea what Rx's alignment is. The best evidence I've seen of alignment, however, points to qwints as the play, and qwints wants to hang Rx.

Mac wrote:Conversely, if Apoth flips town, I think that your points on qwintz and his presupposing Apoth-town aren't bad ones, and I'll be looking at him. Yay for day 2 targets!

This isn't a good idea. You are you telling scum how to manipulate you if I am wrong about qwints but right about Rx. If you think my points "aren't bad" then how can you so off-handedly dismiss them to lynch a person they suggest is town?

Sorry to ask a question when you have declared LA. Someone else from the gallery may pick up where Mac left off if they share his views or wish to argue them for discussion.

Ythill · Post Post #638 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:14 pm

LOL... EBWOP...

I wrote:You are
you
telling scum...

LlamaFluff · Post Post #639 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:29 pm

Im pretty confused and tired right now but just want to try and figure some stuff out.

Ythill - You claim qwints/Atlas is scum given that he showed knowledge that Apoc is town in 630? I read it as coaching but not necessarily scum-town coaching since he nearly said "do A B C and I will unvote you". I dont see the motivation of scum telling town what to do in order to not get lynched.

SC - If you are going to live on borrowed time please scumhunt, or at least give the illusion of scumhunting

Ceph - No vote yet? Why?

Jazz - Hows catching up going? We are close to deadline.

Apoc - Who is scum?

MacavityLock · Post Post #640 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:46 pm

Ythill wrote:This isn't a good idea. You are you telling scum how to manipulate you if I am wrong about qwints but right about Rx. If you think my points "aren't bad" then how can you so off-handedly dismiss them to lynch a person they suggest is town?

Sorry to ask a question when you have declared LA. Someone else from the gallery may pick up where Mac left off if they share his views or wish to argue them for discussion.

No, you're probably right. I probably shouldn't have said anything specific as to my suspicions just yet, and I certainly will be looking closer all around come tomorrow. Honestly, this day has kind of lost steam for me, and I'm ready for us to move on.

I don't think your points about Apoth suggest that he's town, just that he might be less likely to be scum. Subtle difference, but it's there. All in all, I think it's a good day 1 bandwagon, no matter what.

Apothecary · Post Post #641 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:57 pm

Yeah, I'm kind of confused here as well. Not that I'm complaining or anything.
To Llamafluff, I'm a little cautious when it comes to waving accusations now. I still suspicious of SC, but he's untouchable for now, since his power claim. As for a possible second... I'm going to carefully weigh up some people's actions.

Mac, which wagon are you refering to now.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #642 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:26 am

LlamaFluff wrote:SC - If you are going to live on borrowed time please scumhunt, or at least give the illusion of scumhunting

I'm trying to get Apothecary lynched for reasons I have already stated. I already named my other suspects—you and MiteyMouse—but Apothecary is much closer to being lynched than either of you.

And you should not be telling anyone to be giving the illusion of scumhunting in lieu of actual scumhunting.

HoS: LlamaFluff

.

LlamaFluff · Post Post #643 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:47 am

StrangerCoug wrote:
LlamaFluff wrote:SC - If you are going to live on borrowed time please scumhunt, or at least give the illusion of scumhunting
And you should not be telling anyone to be giving the illusion of scumhunting in lieu of actual scumhunting.
HoS: LlamaFluff
.

I have someone who I thought was scum claim doctor and no one want to lynch them, now they are sitting back saying "oh I think this person is scum" and thats about it. If you are scum, cool keep doing it. If you are the doctor though, START HUNTING. You are going to get mislynched if you dont, for the record saying "player X is scum" is not scumhunting.

Also since when MM? You keep saying "Apoc and llama", MM gets pressure and now you think he is a good lynch too?

MacavityLock · Post Post #644 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:05 am

Apothecary wrote:Mac, which wagon are you refering to now.

Um... yours. The one my vote is on.

Ythill · Post Post #645 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:06 am

Llama wrote:Ythill - You claim qwints/Atlas is scum given that he showed knowledge that Apoc is town in 630? I read it as coaching but not necessarily scum-town coaching since he nearly said "do A B C and I will unvote you". I dont see the motivation of scum telling town what to do in order to not get lynched.

If one were to say "do A B C and I will unvote you," and then his target were to follow those steps, it would be easy for him to keep the vote on by claiming, much like qwints has, that the coaching was for next game and the current ABC defense is too little too late, so I don't think the post would hurt qwints-as-scum if Rx was town. Even if it lead to Rx-town avoiding the noose, he'll probably be flipped before endgame and the move then becomes evidence of qwints-scum's cautious townie play.

Qwints' motivation doesn't play a part in my theory and may have been as simple and null as answering Rx's question. It was his manner of speaking and his answers to my questions that suggest he knows Rx's alignment. I haven't claimed that the coaching was a strategic move but, in conjunction with the Primate attack and the first possible slip about Rx's alignment, it provides a conclusion I can't ignore.

However, it occured to me earlier that the move could be an act of scum trying to protect scum-power. I don't think this is likely, which is why I didn't bring it up before, but it's possible.

You must see something in what I've brought up, because you're not spouting the Ythill-is-scum-protecting-his-buddy theory I'd expect from you at this point.

Ythill · Post Post #646 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:10 am

Also, @ Mac: Fair enough. I understand your PoV. Just please try to remember this conersation tomorrow, no matter what Rx flips, in case I don't live through the night. The evidence against qwints isn't the best I've seen, but it's pretty compelling.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #647 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:18 am

LlamaFluff wrote:I have someone who I thought was scum claim doctor and no one want to lynch them, now they are sitting back saying "oh I think this person is scum" and thats about it. If you are scum, cool keep doing it. If you are the doctor though, START HUNTING. You are going to get mislynched if you dont, for the record saying "player X is scum" is not scumhunting.

Prove that all I have said in regards to my suspicions post-claim is "player X is scum".

LlamaFluff wrote:Also since when MM? You keep saying "Apoc and llama", MM gets pressure and now you think he is a good lynch too?

Since I said I saw the case on

HER

. I don't think she is as scummy as you and Apothecary, but her minimal contribution combined with her replacing out once pressured is undeniably telling.

ISO · Post Post #648 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:32 am

Llama wrote:Ceph - No vote yet? Why?

No reason, I suppose.

Vote: MM

qwints · Post Post #649 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:54 am

Ythill wrote: I hope you'll be looking closely at me either way, but Rx as scum is hardly a reason to suspect me more. Meta me. If I was scum and had a buddy getting half as much attention as Rx, chances are we'd have hung him already, and I would have been one of the loudest supporters.

BUT you have been one of the loudest supporters of an Apoch lynch...

Covering contingencies is not scummy. I don't think anyone could claim Apoch is 100% likely to be scum. The things I've said to help him if he's town are designed to cover the chance that he is town/help him play better in the future.

The points I've asked apoc to address are designed to help us regardless of whether he's town or scum.