Toriel's Patience (end)

[Taly]

eh, not really an associative type read, just didnt like that the first wagon of D2 was shunned when eveyrone else was just passively saying

"iTs

ArI'S sLOt"

thats part of the point with

implo

, they dont seem to be doing anything and thats not a step far away from

freedom

, they just use more words.

in a game where wolves may not be actively the loudest but also content with the D1 elimination, thats how i think mafia are interacting with the gamestate.

being present only in post count

[Keyleth]

just didnt like that the first wagon of D2 was shunned when eveyrone else was just passively saying "iTs ArI'S sLOt"

I don't think I understand this part if you can rephrase it but I get the rest of your post, thank you.

[Taly]

majority of the people's daystart was just regurgitating a scumread on

ari

that never even went anywhere on D1 when a very non-resisted wagon flipped town.

it just gave the vibe that scum WANTED that trajectory, and anyone passively evaluating that was either bound to be misled as town, or just scum.

so the immediate rebuttal to the

ydrasse

wagon, even on a widely townread slot, gave me a ping because it seemed uncritical of the gamestate.

[Keyleth]

majority of the people's daystart was just regurgitating a scumread on

ari

that never even went anywhere on D1 when a very non-resisted wagon flipped town.

it just gave the vibe that scum WANTED that trajectory, and anyone passively evaluating that was either bound to be misled as town, or just scum.

so the immediate rebuttal to the

ydrasse

wagon, even on a widely townread slot, gave me a ping because it seemed uncritical of the gamestate.

Given the trajectory everyone has taken, I don't think it's that odd to go to a common slot that was talked about. I think important context to add was Ari slot wasn't touched a lot due to a mix of a few people calling her obvious town and the fact it was Ari herself.

With Ari no longer in the slot, with deadline coming up there was no real room to breathe or explore the wolfread. Now that the most obvious player who got the most heat is gone, I would've been shocked if Ari slot didn't get some amount of pushback.

Now, do I know if scum wanted that and were pushing that angle? Maybe, I'm not really wise enough to think that hard considering how I play but that'd have to be loud voices, no? Do you consider Dann a loud presence?

Ydrasse is a slot a lot of people townread, may I ask why you gave dann flack for this but not myself, who I believe also defended the ydrasse wagon? At least, I think I did or would.

[Taly]

my interpretation of the gamestate may be wrong

but why is it obvious that

ydra

is town after the flip?

thats a better approach than to say the wagon is bad, because the former may imply TMI

[Keyleth]

my interpretation of the gamestate may be wrong

but why is it obvious that

ydra

is town after the flip?

thats a better approach than to say the wagon is bad, because the former may imply TMI

B-but that isn't what I asked or said at all-

[Keyleth]

I now deflate like a balloon back to my corner of words are hard on the internet.

[Taly]

im not saying thats what you said, im telling you my thought process

dann

said there is not a coherent reason to scumread

ydra

and i figured it would be more effective to justify the townread rather than pushback on the wagon itself

[Taly]

i dont really consider

dann

a very loud presence but i dont know if that changes the situation

[Taly]

I now deflate like a balloon back to my corner of words are hard on the internet.

i am ACTIVELY trying to make this not happen :/

[Keyleth]

im not saying thats what you said, im telling you my thought process

dann

said there is not a coherent reason to scumread

ydra

and i figured it would be more effective to justify the townread rather than pushback on the wagon itself

I can't really speak for Dann on the matter but I'm trying to think of both in a context but I don't see why one is townier or wolfier than the other? Maybe I should go reread it again under new information. I jisut assumed stuff like this was playstyle clash because both accomplish the same goal it's just how you're doing it, no?

Given we plan on going spare I can see both worlds where you want your wolf teammate to be townread so they get spared but not connected because of how bad that looks flip wise ya know? However, I will sob if two of my strongest TR's are both wolves.

I know that's not what you're saying, but it's where my brain led. I like the conversation though cause if I'm wrong someone needs to bonk me.

[Keyleth]

i dont really consider

dann

a very loud presence but i dont know if that changes the situation

Maybe I'm undervaluing things and I need tothink more like you I just find it hard to wrap my brain around the wolfteam trying to spin a worldview of go to the next inactiveish slot when I don't think that has anything to do with it.

I now deflate like a balloon back to my corner of words are hard on the internet.

i am ACTIVELY trying to make this not happen :/

I know! It's more a bash at myself thing I think you're doing lovely. Trying to form all my thoughts through text is

hard

when I'm so used to video. It's a fun but aaa type of challenge.

[Keyleth]

Maybe inactive is the wrong word because I don't think most of the slots pre replacement minus alisae were inactive, like there was another to work with people were just super active so it seemed inactive by comparison?

[implosion]

I’ll give a more explicit summary of where I’m at in various stances later today

[Sakura Hana]

If it's between Meuh and Alisae i... dont really know which one to vote, but i'd probably go back to Meuh now that Alisae's actually playing. I'd rather eliminate freedom tho.

then vote there but explain why

I thought I already did, but Merlyn's vote on me gave me weird feelings.
VOTE: freedom

Is this not a thing for you anymore Sakura?

I heavily disliked Dann's vote and reasoning on me.

[Sakura Hana]

i want

freedom

flipped and my confidence that this is scum is reasonable independent of previous failures

i either end this game with a bunch of cracked eggs on a clown mask that i wear

or a town win

What happened to

2051 seems a bit unlikely to come from scum, the admission to a shallow read, telling someone else they're probably correct on poijnts they don't seem to have examined, and looking at

ydra

again based off recent votes doesn't seem like a progression an informed thought would make.
<snip>

unless "a bit" is not enough and that made you change your mind?

[Sakura Hana]

Maybe i should've read the next post first, oops

[Sakura Hana]

nobody should have a neutral or wishy-washy opinion of

freedom

rn, you either want to be on the wagon or you have a reason against it

I'm curious why on the later.

[RCEnigma]

im not saying thats what you said, im telling you my thought process

dann

said there is not a coherent reason to scumread

ydra

and i figured it would be more effective to justify the townread rather than pushback on the wagon itself

I can't really speak for Dann on the matter but I'm trying to think of both in a context but I don't see why one is townier or wolfier than the other? Maybe I should go reread it again under new information. I jisut assumed stuff like this was playstyle clash because both accomplish the same goal it's just how you're doing it, no?

Given we plan on going spare I can see both worlds where you want your wolf teammate to be townread so they get spared but not connected because of how bad that looks flip wise ya know? However, I will sob if two of my strongest TR's are both wolves.

I know that's not what you're saying, but it's where my brain led. I like the conversation though cause if I'm wrong someone needs to bonk me.

Well the former is in good faith and the latter has the potential to be dubious.

So why you would do this as scum is that you kill multiple birds with one stone. If you as scum know X slot is town and being pushed you can push against the wagon and still get in a better standing with X slot by virtue of doing so. But you also discredit the slots that are pushing X.

It also leaves an Avenue to pivot onto X slot because you didn’t explicitly townread X slot at the time you just disapproved of the wagon for whatever reason and it seems like a more natural progression than a raw 180 on X slot.

In a hypothetical world.

[RCEnigma]

If it's between Meuh and Alisae i... dont really know which one to vote, but i'd probably go back to Meuh now that Alisae's actually playing. I'd rather eliminate freedom tho.

then vote there but explain why

I thought I already did, but Merlyn's vote on me gave me weird feelings.
VOTE: freedom

Is this not a thing for you anymore Sakura?

I heavily disliked Dann's vote and reasoning on me.

What does that have to do with freedom?

[Sakura Hana]

the activity rn is unimpressive

Idk it's been unimpressive since day 1 imo... speaking of why is it still day 1.

[Sakura Hana]

What does that have to do with freedom?

I have a stronger scumread on Dann.

[RCEnigma]

Fair, input on freedom and the wagon itself would still be appreciated.

[Sakura Hana]

so the immediate rebuttal to the

ydrasse

wagon, even on a widely townread slot, gave me a ping because it seemed uncritical of the gamestate.

I thought that wagon was mostly based off BoPing RC, which is not something i agree with doing either way.

[RCEnigma]

I didn’t get the impression that mandate was RC.