Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[Illumina]

I am not defending him; rather, geraintm is an obvious choice that everyone else is ignoring. It's not that Vi isn't a good choice, but lynching him today is a potentially dangerous move.

Yes, it's quite reasonable that the mafia were given custom claims, especially in a game where we're allowed to quote our role PMs. It follows that scum claiming their opposite is a great strategy, given this (and considering how many days we likely have left), and ignoring that will cause the town to lose. This is why I'm pressing for geraintm.

I can't explain the capital T in my role PM, I quoted it just as I received it. Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't there also a typo in TM's claim?

Do you agree that geraintm's claim (mycosynth metal golem) is highly suspicious? I think that's worth investigating before we end the day.

[ortolan]

um yes...I do, that's why I wanted him synthed rather than you (and his claim also had the erroneous T), but that's because I believe he is metal

[Illumina]

So, you don't think it's remotely possible the mod gave them claims even though we're allowed to quote our role PM directly? I find that hard to believe.

[CF Riot]

If each scum is claiming the opposite of what they really are (metal/flesh) we're basically screwed (ie, forced into a mylo situation) unless we call the bluff of one scum today.

This is wrong if you are scum, because we're synthing you today. If it's Ger/TM and TM is really steel, then yes we're probably screwed. We'll cross that bridge when we get there though.

[Vi]

The part in bold is a misquote. Ort kept saying we should just wait until SSK showed up and claimed, and I repeatedly told him, as worded from 880, "He won't. It's deadline. He put it of this long for a reason. He probably won't post til tomorrow." I was saying SSK was avoiding claiming intentionally.

'Messed that one up. 'Not sure why I made that choice of words, sorry.

Pork you said something about me (if I were scum) wanting more fleshies for my scum motives. This is flawed in that we've all mass-claimed, so if I were scum I would know who my easy targets were already.

The easy targets have already been decided, ne?

I'll hammer Vi when everyone is ready. Vi, if you've got last words you better get 'em out there.

This is my first time getting lynched in the ~5.5 months I've been playing. Normally I'd extend congratulations, but in this case I'm Town. I did my best with the cards I was dealt (considering I never actually said "yes I'll replace in") and hope I was doing something right sometime in my scumhunting. Good luck; at the rate you're going you'll need it.

-----

I'm well aware I would have come under much greater suspicion were I not Glissa and had not claimed. That doesn't mean it's not very good evidence I am town *specifically because almost everyone's role pm says I am*. And I don't believe anyone has blamed you for Gremwell's death, some such as me have strongly considered the possibility you are responsible however

CF Riot has explicitly said that I am responsible for Gremwell's death. Porkens is hanging me as a third party with the unique kill flavor. That's half the wagon right there.
And yes, your claim IS poor evidence because it's entirely possible for it to be fabricated. Porkens? He actually DID something to be demonstrated Town. You? All you did was quote a Role PM; you didn't actually DO anything.

I think so, but would you spell it out please so I can check your argument.

Hesitated to claim, check.
Quiet through the game, check.
Wording of Role PM did not sync with the others', check.

I am suspicious of you placing doubt on me and CF Riot. Me vs CF Riot and Porkens was very prevalent earlier in the game and has turned right around based on their detective work and my roleclaim specifically. You seem to be the only? person who still tries to place suspicion on us.

Am I placing suspicion on the two of you BECAUSE of those early-game events? Hm, no. So this point is invalid.
And thanks for recognizing that you were only cleared by your claim~

I've actually pasted the text after I got serumed. I'm not sure if you have. It would be to see it (again?).

...Actually, I haven't. One moment.

As you go to hide during the night, a crowd of moth-like creatures surround you. Soon, you feel a strange feeling. Then, time seems to slow. The world feels...different. It's obvious, you have ascended to the next level.

Your skills of splitting and recombining your seperate portions now have a real use. You've realized that you can split yourself to make it seem as if there are more of you.

During Day Three, you will have two votes.

I'll certainly not say it syncs with the flavor of Triskelion, but it's got competition in that regard, I think.

Not sure, but as far as I can tell it will finally reveal to us whether or not you're scum and carries no drawbacks apart from you no longer giving us your opinions. Of course it's possible there is another double night-kill but that seems a ridiculously unfair setup to me.

The question of me being scum is rather unreasonable. Of course, if you really are what you claim to be, you might get to see an extra night-kill anyway. That one probably won't be my fault either.

Finally, Vi, I don't think you've yet replied as to why you specifically think my play is bad, even today, so when you reply to my last post would you answer that as well?

You didn't see my analysis of D2, where you were basically on SSK's side until the very end?

[ortolan]

Finally, Vi, I don't think you've yet replied as to why you specifically think my play is bad, even today, so when you reply to my last post would you answer that as well?

You didn't see my analysis of D2, where you were basically on SSK's side until the very end?

You said "ortolan is losing the game for Town again" implying my play was still errant. I admit it was less than optimal on days 1 and 2 but I was wondering what about today you seemed to have a problem with...apparently nothing.

Of course, if you really are what you claim to be, you might get to see an extra night-kill anyway.

What does this mean?

And thanks for recognizing that you were only cleared by your claim~

I had never suggested otherwise...

[Nicol Bolas]

In all role PMs, I may have put typos on purpose just to avoid the usual modWIFOM that involves with quoting role PMs. Just a friendly warning.

[Vi]

You said "ortolan is losing the game for Town again" implying my play was still errant. I admit it was less than optimal on days 1 and 2 but I was wondering what about today you seemed to have a problem with...apparently nothing.

oic
That had to do with the reasonably large amount of Bad Logic you were pushing on me to make me out to be scum, addressed earlier in that post.
(Yes, I see Porkens is doing the same thing but I have more faith in him. Granted, me having faith in someone usually means they flip scum, but whatever.)

What does this mean?

I'm not responsible for Gremwell's death.
If you weren't either, then chances are you might see another extra night-kill for the same unexplained reasons.

[Illumina]

This is wrong if you are scum, because we're synthing you today. If it's Ger/TM and TM is really steel, then yes we're probably screwed. We'll cross that bridge when we get there though.

I don't follow. What does synthing me today have to do with that? Whether I'm synthed or not, steel or not, that's an obvious winning play for scum. By my own logic, I'd be flesh claiming steel if I were scum right now and town would be wasting its precious time. That's my point. Why do you think people wanted to lynch me earlier but couldn't? Applying that same logic to geraintm makes sense.

Since I'm town, though, I know we're finished if we don't lynch scum today or tomorrow. "Crossing that bridge when we get to it" will end in town failure if you lynch a townie or lynch the metal scum tomorrow! Vi could be our scum lynch, but geraintm seems way more likely. At least Vi's ability can be demonstrated -- what ability does geraintm have?

To everyone who wanted to lynch me earlier: is geraintm not scummier than I am? His claim seems way bogus to me.

[Vi]

Ah, I almost forgot about this. In the interest of stopping (or further delaying) my own mislynch...

Vote

x2

(Extension) - Yes

What does synthing me today have to do with that? Whether I'm synthed or not, steel or not, that's an obvious winning play for scum. By my own logic, I'd be flesh claiming steel if I were scum right now and town would be wasting its precious time. That's my point. Why do you think people wanted to lynch me earlier but couldn't?

You were not lynched earlier because you had already received a majority of synth votes.
(However, you do win truthiness points for saying "tough luck, I AM metal" when you thought you were lynched.)

Illumina, you've shown that you think geraintm is scum. Who else is likely scum?

[Illumina]

Yes, but my impression was that people wanted to lynch me because they didn't believe my metal claim. I think geraintm's claim is more suspicious than mine, and no one seems as interested in his, which seems weird to me.

I have geraintm and Tony Montana down as a likely scum team. You and CF Riot are possibilities, but not as likely imo. And as I've said previously, we know you're not metal. We should be calling the scum's bluff today (ie, someone scummy who we don't know is metal or not) so we don't trap ourselves later.

[Porkens]

Didn't we already use our one-time extention?

Vote yourself instead, Vi.

[Vi]

Didn't we already use our one-time extention?

No.

Vote yourself instead, Vi.

Sorry, I don't feel like risking an IC-ban for self-hammering as Town.
Even if that were not relevant, I'm

just

not emo enough to roll over and die on command.

----

Yes, but my impression was that people wanted to lynch me because they didn't believe my metal claim.

This is correct.

I think geraintm's claim is more suspicious than mine, and no one seems as interested in his, which seems weird to me.

To that end, I think today's impact on tomorrow will be looking at the impacts each player had on the decisions that were made today.

[Natirasha]

You have not formally used your extention, so you know. However, it is not a vote-thing, and doublevotes don't count towards the extension.

[Vi]

You have not formally used your extention, so you know. However, it is not a vote-thing, and doublevotes don't count towards the extension.

'Can't blame me for trying.

Or

CAN

you?

In the event of my untimely demise today, would the remaining players lose the option of an (my) extension, for clarification purposes?

[ortolan]

You said "ortolan is losing the game for Town again" implying my play was still errant. I admit it was less than optimal on days 1 and 2 but I was wondering what about today you seemed to have a problem with...apparently nothing.

oic
That had to do with the reasonably large amount of Bad Logic you were pushing on me to make me out to be scum, addressed earlier in that post.
(Yes, I see Porkens is doing the same thing but I have more faith in him. Granted, me having faith in someone usually means they flip scum, but whatever.)

Bad logic is bad logic, irrespective of how town in your mind the person is. If I am suspicious of you for similar reasons to Porkens, my actualy *logic* can't be any worse than his simply based on you thinking he is more likely to be town. You might doubt my *motivations*, however. And what is snowboarding? Is that a mafia term (just out of curiosity)?

What does this mean?

I'm not responsible for Gremwell's death.
If you weren't either, then chances are you might see another extra night-kill for the same unexplained reasons.

Hmm. In my tendency to speculate hugely I had considered that Memnarch has an ability to try to target me, and gains something from doing so (as my flavour says he is "chasing" me) and that in fact Gremwell was *my* metal body double- who somehow was sacrificed when Memnarch tried to target me (even though I was immune any way). In which case if I end up between copper bread buns tonight and we've lynched you then town will lose.

However, I still hope the copper bread buns death was a once-off and we can lynch you safely. If nothing else I want to find out if SpyreX was right about you (remember he did sacrifice himself on day 1 because he was so sure of your alignment).

And sorry, but I'm a bit unconvinced by this

In all role PMs, I may have put typos on purpose just to avoid the usual modWIFOM that involves with quoting role PMs. Just a friendly warning.

I'd certainly already considered this possibility, by saying this I think it makes it more likely a mistake was made (sorry Natirasha, but we need everything we've got to have a chance at winning at this point)

[Illumina]

Porkens

: you've been highly suspicious of TM and geraintm, but suddenly became gung-ho about lynching Vi. You've said you're in favor of lynching mafia rather than an SK, but yet you continue to go after Vi, even though you A) said you were certain that Ort/Vi was an SK and B) were sure TM, myself and geraintm were scummy looking.

Why the sudden shift? You also said:

If Vi flips town; I think we have lost this one, but I don't see a good alternative. You are more likely town than Vi, so I'm putting all my eggs in one basket.

You certainly seemed to have three good alternatives earlier (me, TM and geraintm). I am advocating

against

putting all our eggs in one basket as town -- Vi is not a bad play, but geraintm would be a much smarter choice today because of the reasons I've outlined.

Also: if you wanted to lynch me and myco geraintm, why not the other way around? If you think geraintm is scum, you've got to realize that he'd claim the opposite of what he really is. Therefore lynching him is a solid play.

CF Riot

:

I think Geraintm just hammered his buddy to save himself from being synthed.

So why are you voting Vi instead of geraintm? I think geraintm falseclaimed metal, because there's no reason for him not to. We seem to be on the same page in wanting to avoid a lylo/mylo situation, why do you think Vi is the best way to avoid that now? I would also be happy with a TM lynch to test his claim, as I think TM and geraintm are probably our scum.

Can we at least agree with CF that we're in lylo if we lynch a townie today? Let's make the best long-term play by testing either TM or geraintm's claim.

[ortolan]

Can we at least agree with CF that we're in lylo if we lynch a townie today? Let's make the best long-term play by testing either TM or geraintm's claim.

[/quote]

No we cannot, because I think it's possible that if we mislynch today we will actually just lose before day 4 even dawns, if scum again get two nightkills. That said I'd rather take the risk on Vi.

Also: if you wanted to lynch me and myco geraintm, why not the other way around? If you think geraintm is scum, you've got to realize that he'd claim the opposite of what he really is. Therefore lynching him is a solid play.

I really, really disagree and am highly skeptical someone claiming the role title "mycosynth golem" would turn out to be flesh. It really looks to me like you're trying to divert the lynch from Vi. I wouldn't go past you being scum with Vi and geraintm being an SK.

[Vi]

Bad logic is bad logic, irrespective of how town in your mind the person is. If I am suspicious of you for similar reasons to Porkens, my actualy *logic* can't be any worse than his simply based on you thinking he is more likely to be town. You might doubt my *motivations*, however.

Good distinction. I was willing to give Porkens more lenience based on his play yesterday and today. As of recently, I'm not so sure any more, as I see him as one of the major forces pushing this lynch.

And what is snowboarding? Is that a mafia term (just out of curiosity)?

Snowboarding is similar to skateboarding, but on ski slopes. I tossed it in for comic relief in light of Post #1080, as 1080 refers to doing three complete spin-turns in midair (360 degrees + 360 degrees + 360 degrees).

Out of curiosity, ortolan, where geographically are you from? You can be vague if you like.

If nothing else I want to find out if SpyreX was right about you (remember he did sacrifice himself on day 1 because he was so sure of your alignment).

Being dead and Town doesn't mean he's right. The whole informal suicide pact idea was retarded IMO anyway.

No we cannot, because I think it's possible that if we mislynch today we will actually just lose before day 4 even dawns, if scum again get two nightkills. That said I'd rather take the risk on Vi.

In other words, you're exceptionally confident that I'm scum.

I wouldn't go past you being scum with Vi and geraintm being an SK.

I don't think SKs fit in this setup, again. Moreover, interactions with SSK (who didn't fit in this setup either ) would suggest that geraintm is more likely scum than third party.

----

The dramatic juxtaposition of desperate pleading, gallows humor, semirational discussion, fierce bloodlust, relative nonchalance, indecision, and conspicuous absence of the real criminal makes for interesting reading - especially considering I speak as the second listed participant - but if you're not going to make a decision soon, you're going for No Lynch. Whether that's preferable or not is basically up to you. But now would be a good time to put in for the deadline extension if you plan on/expect to be delaying much longer. It's free for you and cheap for the mod.

[Illumina]

Btw, please don't hammer Vi before we at least hear from geraintm. I'm interested in what he says before the day ends.

[ortolan]

And what is snowboarding? Is that a mafia term (just out of curiosity)?

Snowboarding is similar to skateboarding, but on ski slopes. I tossed it in for comic relief in light of Post #1080, as 1080 refers to doing three complete spin-turns in midair (360 degrees + 360 degrees + 360 degrees).

Ah, sorry, I do actually know what snowboarding is, I just wondering what it meant in the context of your post. I see the 1080 reference now.

Out of curiosity, ortolan, where geographically are you from? You can be vague if you like.

I'm from Sydney, Australia.

If nothing else I want to find out if SpyreX was right about you (remember he did sacrifice himself on day 1 because he was so sure of your alignment).

Being dead and Town doesn't mean he's right. The whole informal suicide pact idea was retarded IMO anyway.

I certainly don't disagree on this.

No we cannot, because I think it's possible that if we mislynch today we will actually just lose before day 4 even dawns, if scum again get two nightkills. That said I'd rather take the risk on Vi.

In other words, you're exceptionally confident that I'm scum.

I dunno about that. To be honest I'm not liking our chances of winning anyway and I'd probably go with finally confirming you over the risk of losing tonight via another double night-kill. Maybe that's stupid of me.

I wouldn't go past you being scum with Vi and geraintm being an SK.

I don't think SKs fit in this setup, again. Moreover, interactions with SSK (who didn't fit in this setup either ) would suggest that geraintm is more likely scum than third party.

Could be a good point, I'll have to have another look. Can you remember any posts off the top of your head?

The dramatic juxtaposition of desperate pleading, gallows humor, semirational discussion, fierce bloodlust, relative nonchalance, indecision, and conspicuous absence of the real criminal makes for interesting reading - especially considering I speak as the second listed participant - but if you're not going to make a decision soon, you're going for No Lynch. Whether that's preferable or not is basically up to you. But now would be a good time to put in for the deadline extension if you plan on/expect to be delaying much longer. It's free for you and cheap for the mod.

That's ok with me.

Mod: can we have an extension please?

[Vi]

Btw, please don't hammer Vi before we at least hear from geraintm. I'm interested in what he says before the day ends.

Bad news. geraintm doesn't post on weekends.

-----

Could be a good point, I'll have to have another look. Can you remember any posts off the top of your head?

I posted my analysis of D2 and the SSK wagon a while ago; you can use that as a start. In addition, I see some rare instances of defending the Tuberkulos seruming--

dislike anyone who has started to question the randomness of the serum for today. i have to sit there and wonder why they would do that.

what, spyrex you are no capaigning for the serum too? you are not going to get it. you know as well as anyone it was randomly assigned. voting yourself isn't. naughty, naughty boy!

(...)

argh! i signed up for the random seruming. i thought it was the best idea for today as i terrible on day ones in all mafia. naughty illuminia for trying to bck off this, esp as spyrex just revoted tuber...

--as well as interesting stuff like--

re orts posting on turbo's lurking. is his urking just in this game or site wide?

About annocing serums power, say person got a cop ability, and he used it and got innocent on someone. is it a good idea to post that straight up then?

and with everyone noticing turbos lurking, grem seems quiet poor too

Porkens - someone later on asked the same question, role cup = scum why? not seen the role before in a game,s orry for beign thick

(...)

re:lynching time or mafia - if mafia turns out bad, can be serumed to be killed at some point in the future without being lynched

A pattern is found.

[Natirasha]

Whatever, I've been nice about extentions, I'll continue, I suppose.

FINAL DEADLINE: Tuesday.

[ortolan]

Let it be known I have changed my opinion on Vi- I no longer want him lynched. I would like to hear from geraintm and TM who they think is the most scummy before we take further aciton.

[CF Riot]

Hmm, I was about to hammer. Thanks for the extra time Nati.

Illumina, if Geraintm's role, or his possible safeclaim role, were actually the Mycosynth Golem and he really was metal, and he couldn't think up convincing flavor text to another card on his own, I think he would need to claim metal still. That is to say, he couldn't claim, "I'm the artifact card Mycosynth Golem, but I'm flesh." I think that would draw suspicion. Since Mycosynth Golem is really a card, and really an artifact, I don't think the whole idea of being mycosynth and steel is suspicious. It doesn't seem to contradict itself to me. Therefore, I think he really is steel, and not flesh claiming steel.

1080 Snowboarding was a video game too right? That little edit made me laugh. I laughed more when Ort asked if it was mafia terminology. =P (Sorry I'm picking on you Ort.) By the way, if you don't want Vi lynched right now you should unvote.

It's sooo hard for me to know Vi got serumed last night when we had an extra kill and not lynch him today. I would rather lynch TM than try to lynch Geraintm to test the metal claim. I might actually like to lynch TM anyways. If Vi is scum, I think it's with Illumina. That's all there is to it. TM however could go with Ill or Ger. That makes me think TM may yield more information.

I realize I'm playing this game the complete wrong way now.