Open 100 - F + E x 2 + TOG OVER! before 712

[Wall-E]

I disapprove of this lynch, but can't say why because it's verboten (apparently).

vote count

popsofctown (7): peter?, soveliss, doc, tenchi, hp[leaves], sekinj, seraphim
budja (2): zazier, wall-e
tenchi (1): popsofctown
soveliss (1): budja

not voting: blueheaven

With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch, so THAT'S A LYNCH!

[popsofctown]

I've counted the votes.

Vote: Pops

This puts you at L-1. I have stated a few times why I find you scummy. Would you like to claim?

Wow, this really, really reeks.

unvote, Vote: Seraphim

When someone who barely ever opens his mouth for days says something scummy the only times, it's hard for me not to vote that person.

"I have stated a few times why I find you scummy." If it was a lie, it would be scummy enough. (it is, in fact, a false statement. He has only said why I'm scummy once. In one sentence. Check his post by post record)
I think, in fact, that he's mistaken. I think he's empathizing/sharing minds too closely with a person who

has

stated multiple times why I'm scummy, his scumpartner who he's daytalking too. And i think he's joining that person in voting me, and already asking for a claim so he can gather night information.

Or maybe he wants to assert that he's "stated it a few times" just to conceal the fact that he has not said enough for this to be much other than an opportunistic bandwagon-hop vote. Either way, this looks really really bad to me.

To answer the question, no I would not like to claim. The reason why is that Peter? needs to unvote

[Wall-E]

I doubt Peter? will come back to unvote, or did you mean his replacement?

Where is blueheaven?[/b]

Unvote: Vote: blueheaven

I'll unvote when bh posts to my satisfaction.

[Doc]

Since when do you post Xtoxm-style?

Since discussion stalled, pretty much, partly due to lurkers and party, well, due to lurkers. Without their differential there's nothing new to go on. So, pushing a wagon is the only way to go.

So, you gonna vote pops or what? Now that Budja's getting replaced, your vote serves no purpose. And that goes to Wall-E, too. Voting people on the verge of being replaced is a cop-out.

I... I what? HE ASKED TO BE REPLACED AFTER I VOTED FOR HIM!!

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

You can't know the exact time of his request for replacement. You do have a point, though.

I'd agree to a Tenchi lynch, but would prefer Budja, so if a strong wagon forms on Tenchi again I'll hop onboard.

I could've gone with a Tenchi lynch until one of your later posts:

I disapprove of this lynch, but can't say why because it's verboten (apparently).

Real subtle. Now I really am convinced pops is the lynch for today. Best informational lynch available, aside from the insignificant fact that pops has been way scummy. Order of things: pops claims, someone hammers. All clear?

Seraphim's assertion of having stated his opinion of pops multiple times is off a bit, but not enough to stop the pops wagon.

Tomorrow, remind me to say a few things about Wall-E.

abridg.ed for people on the go:

Order of things: pops claims, someone hammers. All clear?

[Wall-E]

What's the point of a claim if you're planning to hammer regardless? Faced with that choice, I'd tell you to eat me. Also, if you have something to say about me, say it. What's the point in waiting?

[Doc]

Stop the blatant fishing please. A claim might possibly cast things in new light, although it's very unlikely. We'll see.

[Wall-E]

FISHING FOR WHAT?

I WAS POINTING OUT A LOGICAL FLAW YOU MADE!

STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO SAY WHATEVER ABOUT ME.

[Doc]

All caps, scary.

Fishing for information. Specifically, I will say what I have to say about you when I deem it will help the town. Right now it won't. I'm not attacking you currently so chill.

[ThAdmiral]

vote count

popsofctown (7): peter?, soveliss, doc, tenchi, hp[leaves], sekinj, seraphim

budja (1): zazier
soveliss (1): budja
seraphim (1): popsofctown
blueheaven (1): wall-e

not voting: blueheaven

With 6 alive it is 7 to lynch, so THAT'S A LYNCH!

Popsofctown was a...

Townie

NIGHT HAS NOW BEGUN

It will last for 72 hours, or until all the night actions are sent in

[ThAdmiral]

Day two arrives and you find two dead bodies:

Doc has apparently been eaten, there is only an arm remaining.

He was a

mason

.

hp[leaves] is found shot, his body riddled with bullet holes.

He was a

townie

.


IT IS NOW DAY 2

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

[ThAdmiral]

I also feel the need to point out that I made a mistake with the end of day vote count. Pops was actually at -1 and as such shouldn't have been lynched. I apologise for this and will make sure not to make any similar mistakes in the future.

[Seraphim]

I guess I don't have much to say...I do have a question, though. If the two scum groups have a majority over the town, do they win the game? Because if they do, we are currently in LYOL.

[Wall-E]

I was assuming the scum have to outnumber the other remaining players, including the other scum team, so it would have to be X > or = Y, where X is the number of teamed scum and Y is the total players minus X. I don't think we're in LYLO for this reason. Can the mod clarify?

[Seraphim]

Meh. I just realized how stupid that was.

Oh well, we jump-started discussion. The question now stands; who be our lynch this morning?

I'm leaning towards Tenchi at this point, though I still need to complete a reread this weekend(when I have time; school life is crazy life). I find some of his actions a tad...questionable and a reread given the fact that Doc aka Korts was a Mason.

[Seraphim]

I also want to hear from Budja's eventual replacement.

[Wall-E]

I can find no evidence of First Letter breadcrumbing in Doc's posts. He did
go after Tenchi, which shifts him even further up my suspect list.

I'm supremely upset that Doc didn't share his thoughts on me BEFORE
night fell, given that he was not an investigator (the only reason I can see
for witholding the info: Possibly trying to confirm my role before dropping
some kind of bomb on me), so double boner points for that. Luckily we
have a backup mason who is now a member of that mason team, so the
information is (hopefully) still in the game, but it's hardly worth a claim
for the info to become available today. Suffice to say I will ask any
claimed mason for this information.

We need to hear from Budja's replacement, Peter?'s replacement,
blueheaven and several others on the events of yesterday.

=============================================

Tenchi got some heat from pops in post 93, and up to that point in the
thread he'd been lurky, making fluff posts... A wagon formed on him
because of several people swiveling their attention away from Zazie and
Korts' flirting.

Tenchi readthrough:

I'm not liking Tenchi as of post 93. By post 99 he's defending my stance
on an issue that I started regarding HP, but retroactively taking my
reasoning as his own defense strikes me as opportunistic in the extreme.
There is nothing to show he wasn't simply reading the thread for a
decently WIFOM-rich attack to piggyback on.

And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know [if kills have flavor]?

I dont know what the motives for the mafia or wolves would be for
knowing [if kills have flavor], but what would town find useful from
knowing [if kills have flavor]?

Are you reading everything?

That's not an adequate response, imo.

Tenchi's vote on HP comes off strange to me. Seems he is trying to park his vote on the easiest target
he can find. HP has been the prime discussion thus far and was a easy
target.

Who says I was targetting him?

I do.

Parking, yes

Ok.

starting an inquisition on him no.

Too self-assured. Why park your vote on someone and NOT ask a question when you do? Better yet, ask a question FIRST, gauge the reaction, THEN vote if you still feel sure.

And besides, if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why, and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see no other suspicious behavior, only certain associations.

Vote Tenchi

For trying to start a bandwagon on a easy target.

No. You're the one who's bandwagonning. Or at least I think so. I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.

Vote: Soveliss

This kind of self-meta is never acceptable in my book. You're too scummy to be scum now? I think not.

As of post 126 EVERYONE is giving Tenchi the stinkeye. Peter? makes some good points (some of which I'm reiterating now, some of which I don't entirely agree with) and at this point in the thread it looks like Tenchi is the most suspicious person in the thread by polling.

Then comes his big defense. I will strikeout anything I find flippant, irrelevant or nit-picky:

Some notes and answers because I'm tired of quoting too many things:

+ I will lay off the CAPS LOCK. But I will use it once in a while. It's in my DNA.

+ REGARDING PETER: He made a similar mistake Soveliss did -- he was updated on my case but was not updated on other issues this time on the Mod's response. Although I still feel Soveliss made a graver mistake by missing 2-3 posts regarding why town/scum would want to know why a reveal in MO would be advantageous or not.

+ MORE REGARDING PETER: He posted this huge case against me when I said I was going to STFU. Could be coincidence or could be scum hoping I'd be absent so that no one would defend me.

*

+ REGARDING POPS: He's ready to leave his "masonism" "up in the air" but is ready to speculate on mine.

**

+ REGARDING ZAZIER's QUESTION ON POST 116: SEE TIMELINE HERE. I saw no other suspicious behavior except from HP missing from the thread AT THAT MOMENT. Then Soveliss came along...

+ REGARDING IF/WHEN: It was confusing I admit. I mean that if their suspicions was hinged on me being townie, then yes my lynch would be ok. But if you guys think I'm scum and you have no other leads aside from that

if I turn up scum

then that would be useless. But since I'm town I shouldn't have used the word IF. I just creates more confusion on my alignment. So it was a stupid mistake/assumption on my part.

+ REGARDING LYNCHING ON MY BIRTHDAY: I was actually having fun in my posts for the first time in this game.

- appeal to emotion

+ REGARDING POST 124: You need to let me have a life on my birthday. :-p And I did! Regardless, I was still back to write some good stuff later that day.

- appeal to emotion #2

+ REGARDING BUDJA: I wish he'd share more of his suspicions more. If he wants us to look at other players, then he should have seen/supported cases on other players by now.

- call for others to work harder
+ DOC ON HP BEING SEASONED: Point made. I'd rather not go there as HP's post is just full of circular logic. Not to mention we have more interesting discussions now.
+ QUESTION FOR DOC: Why is a playstyle argument relevant? What do you mean by that?
+ REGARDING USING METAS: It is against my better judgement. There is a lot more going on a single thread with lots of information. I'd rather rely on that than using cases that look similar but involve different people/playstyles and personalities. (Or maybe it is just a bias on my part.) Not to mention mafia is originally played without metas, so I'd rather keep it that way. Unless metas are acceptable here in mafiascum culture, then go ahead and use it. But it's not going to have too much weight (if any at all) on my book.

***

+ FINALLY QUOTES:

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

Confirm Vote: Soveliss

And then:

unvote

Vote: Tenchi

....
All of his other actions are very scummy. "Can you not lynch me while i refuse to defend myself KTHXBYE". At this point, the only reason i can doubt that he's scum is that he seems like his daytalk friend would be able to coach him into better action than that.
...

For blowing out of proportion my message

on taking a break from the game and having fun in my birthday

into

being unhelpful by refusing to defend myself

. I NEVER SAID I WILL STOP DEFENDING MYSELF. AND I NEVER DID.

+ ON POPS REMOVING HIS TUNNEL VISION: OMG FINALLY!

Huge FoS still on POPS

Vote: Pops

(At this point I'm voting Pops or Soveliss.)

* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not.

** This was the initial reason I unvoted and stopped pursuing Tenchi right here. It's still a good point, I think, but in light of pops' flip I'm downgrading the significance. Even scum can make pro-town points.

*** This bit is a very verbose way of continuing meta discussion (or meta-meta discussion, if that's not redundant) while simultaneously denouncing meta.

Vote: Tenchi

FoS: Soveliss

Soveliss has done several things I find distasteful so far. I'll post a case on him/her if I feel it's necessary, but in light of my #1 FoSing him, I'm going to do some more observing.

Thoughts?

Short verson of this post: Vote for Tenchi, replacements need to arrive and read, less lurking please blueheaven.

[Wall-E]

I misread something Tenchi said regarding Soveliss' question on why the mafia might care if their flavor is evident or not. I retract that point. The rest of the case stands firm in my mind, however.

[Tenchi]

Four of you can jump on me right now but I'm not giving up.

Let me address your points Wall-E:

"There is nothing to show he wasn't simply reading the thread for a
decently WIFOM-rich attack to piggyback on."

Nope. I was actually the first to bring up the fact he was discussing who was mason or not. The additional points people brought up (like he jumped on vote bandwagons) just added reason to why others voted for him. AFAIK I was one of the first few people who voted for him (although it was initially born out of OMGUS). Not to mention his failure to actually provide alternative suspects if he is town(which was the thing I also noticed). He did provide Budja as one and like many others, I'm still waiting for what a Budja replacement will say.

REGARDING TARGETING HP: I didn't. I just parked my vote to pressure him to contribute to the thread.

"Too self-assured. Why park your vote on someone and NOT ask a question when you do? Better yet, ask a question FIRST, gauge the reaction, THEN vote if you still feel sure. "

Good question. Honestly, I don't know what to ask. I just wanted him to participate more since all that initial discussion came from his question.

"This kind of self-meta is never acceptable in my book. You're too scummy to be scum now? I think not. "

Good point, but that's what I'm thinking. I'm looking scummy in all three of my games right now and I can't seem to figure out how to deal with this self-scumminess. :-p I'll learn.

"* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not. "

My concern was the fact that Peter, after a LOOOOOOONG absence makes this huge post against me when I "claimed" I will be away. I personally find the timing suspicious. But since you are thinking I'm scum, then that really doesn't matter to you.

"This was the initial reason I unvoted and stopped pursuing Tenchi right here. It's still a good point, I think, but in light of pops' flip I'm downgrading the significance. Even scum can make pro-town points."

That's unfair. It's like saying "Let's all nullify Tenchi's good points because he's scum.". I don't even see anything else that makes me scum aside from the fact that I voted for Pops.

"This bit is a very verbose way of continuing meta discussion (or meta-meta discussion, if that's not redundant) while simultaneously denouncing meta."

I just said an opinion about an issue in the thread. Many people don't know me where I stand regarding that issue and apparently many people also don't share my POV on that issue. I feel there was a need for me to state my case on why I decide to hold that POV. Again, I feel its unfair for you to attack me because I shared an opinion on what I consider as part of a valid case.

Vote: Wall-E

I think your points are out of hand.

[Tenchi]

I'm supremely upset that Doc didn't share his thoughts on me BEFORE
night fell, given that he was not an investigator (the only reason I can see
for witholding the info: Possibly trying to confirm my role before dropping
some kind of bomb on me), so double boner points for that. Luckily we
have a backup mason who is now a member of that mason team, so the
information is (hopefully) still in the game, but it's hardly worth a claim
for the info to become available today. Suffice to say I will ask any
claimed mason for this information.

I think it would be stupid for one of the masons to come out right now, especially if Doc suspected you.

[Wall-E]

I'm supremely upset that Doc didn't share his thoughts on me BEFORE
night fell, given that he was not an investigator (the only reason I can see
for witholding the info: Possibly trying to confirm my role before dropping
some kind of bomb on me), so double boner points for that. Luckily we
have a backup mason who is now a member of that mason team, so the
information is (hopefully) still in the game, but

it's hardly worth a claim
for the info to become available today.

Suffice to say I will ask any
claimed mason for this information.

I think it would be stupid for one of the masons to come out right now, especially if Doc suspected you.

Thanks for reiterating what I said.

Just so we're clear, you're claiming your vote on me is for me having a weak case, not OMGUS, right?

I think I'm happy with my vote for the moment.

[Wall-E]

I'll address the points you argued effectively. Anything I don't address you used appeal to emotion or just dismissed.

Tenchi got some heat from pops in post 93, and up to that point in the thread he'd been lurky, making fluff posts... A wagon formed on him because of several people swiveling their attention away from Zazie and Korts' flirting.

Tenchi readthrough:

I'm not liking Tenchi as of post 93. By post 99 he's defending my stance on an issue that I started regarding HP, but retroactively taking my reasoning as his own defense strikes me as opportunistic in the extreme. There is nothing to show he wasn't simply reading the thread for a decently WIFOM-rich attack to piggyback on.

Nope. I was actually the first to bring up the fact he was discussing who was mason or not. The additional points people brought up (like he jumped on vote bandwagons) just added reason to why others voted for him. AFAIK I was one of the first few people who voted for him (although it was initially born out of OMGUS). Not to mention his failure to actually provide alternative suspects if he is town(which was the thing I also noticed). He did provide Budja as one and like many others, I'm still waiting for what a Budja replacement will say.

Ah, but that's not what I'm referencing here. Let me quote it for you:

/confirm

Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies?

This makes me think you have a killing role.

Vote: hp [leaves]

Actually, I give him slight town points for that. I don't see particular motivation as scum to give a shit about kill MO's.

yeah

post 19 nonrandom vote - because i'm the shiznigackle

wut wikka obama it's your birthday -day birth-wikka-day (unf unf unf baby yeah)

You honestly do not see a reason?

This is the discussion in question. Your initial response was to condemn my attack (which I later agreed with), but then;

After that one long discussion regarding his ONE post, his resounding absence makes me suspect him. Smells like scum who wants to let other people argue for him/make their associations.

Vote: HP

You jumped onboard the HP wagon for an arguably weaker reason.

REGARDING TARGETING HP: I didn't. I just parked my vote to pressure him to contribute to the thread.

Too self-assured. Why park your vote on someone and NOT ask a question when you do? Better yet, ask a question FIRST, gauge the reaction, THEN vote if you still feel sure.

Good question. Honestly, I don't know what to ask. I just wanted him to participate more since all that initial discussion came from his question.

Well I think that smells.

"This kind of self-meta is never acceptable in my book. You're too scummy to be scum now? I think not. "

Good point, but that's what I'm thinking. I'm looking scummy in all three of my games right now and I can't seem to figure out how to deal with this self-scumminess. :-p I'll learn.

More self-meta? Stop it!

"* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not. "

My concern was the fact that Peter, after a LOOOOOOONG absence makes this huge post against me when I "claimed" I will be away. I personally find the timing suspicious. But since you are thinking I'm scum, then that really doesn't matter to you.

Hmm.

I can accept that, but it's weak sauce and smells OMGUS-y against P?.

This was the initial reason I unvoted and stopped pursuing Tenchi right here. It's still a good point, I think, but in light of pops' flip I'm downgrading the significance. Even scum can make pro-town points.

That's unfair. It's like saying "Let's all nullify Tenchi's good points because he's scum.".

I don't even see anything else that makes me scum aside from the fact that I voted for Pops.

Really? You're just going to dismiss the whole case like that?

When you add this whole thing up, you appear sloppy, and that's enough to drag me off the fence on the issue of your alignment and into the muddy yard of doubt.

I'm starting to think you might be a more emotional player than a logical one... the bane of my existence and the only kind of player that gives me trouble. The last time I instinctually tangled with one of your breed they flipped scum... That could have been coincidence, but I'd like to think I have a fair nose for a bullshitter.

I'm 60% sure you're scum, Tenchi, and that's way more than enough for me to keep my vote on you.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E wrote:
"* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not. "

Tenchi wrote:
My concern was the fact that Peter, after a LOOOOOOONG absence makes this huge post against me when I "claimed" I will be away. I personally find the timing suspicious.

But since you are thinking I'm scum, then that really doesn't matter to you.

Nice try at mischaracterization there, too.

It's not: I think you're scum and therefore your defense is weak. It's: Pre-empting Peter?'s case with, "I'm going to STFU now" doesn't erase or invalidate his points in ANY WAY.

Man, I almost fell for that. You're good.

[hp [leaves]]

Bah. I didn't want to learn it this way.

[Wall-E]

I strongly object to that man's nonsense post. He is clearly wrong/lying/on drugs.

[ThAdmiral]

I guess I don't have much to say...I do have a question, though. If the two scum groups have a majority over the town, do they win the game? Because if they do, we are currently in LYOL.

a mafia group can only win when it is in a position where it is equal to half of the remaining players, or nothing can prevent the same.
In this game that generally means one of the mafia teams being wiped out.