Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[Porkens]

In the first one I did, but the second one is all I had left. I'm spent at this moment.




As for you request for TEH CLAIMS:
(In no real order)

Welcome, Timeater.

You are Triskelion, town-aligned metal fleet. You were just flying through the skies one day when you happened upon a gaping hole in the razor fields. You entered. You found a veritable war going on between some fleshies and an army of robots. Being the multi-faced person you are, you have decided to help the fleshies.
Abilities: You are metal. You cannot be killed in any way.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

You are the Blinkmoth Nexus, town-aligned Serum Giver. As the living ancestral home of the Blinkmoths, who make the Blinkmoth Serum(go figure...), you have a lot of Blinkmoth Serum. This should help the town somehow.
Abilities: Each day, you may target a player. That player will be given the Blinkmoth Serum, activating their innate abilities.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

SpyreX:
Name: Krark-Clan Shaman
Alignment: Town
Role: Metallurgist
Metal Status: Flesh

Wall-E:
Name: Auriok Champion
Alignment: Town
Role: Hero
Metal Status: Flesh

Name: Vedalken Engineer
Alignment: Mafia
Role: Scryer
Metal Status: Flesh
Serumed: 1 time.
Killed: Lynched Day Two

Name: Death-Mask Duplicant
Alignment: Town
Role: Body Double
Metal Status: Metal
Serumed: 0 times
Killed: sandviched Night Two.

Welcome, ortolan.

You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist. Ever since your birth, you've had a mysterious power to destroy metal. And now you are having these visions of a non-metal world. And then there is the troll Chunth who is telling you you have the spark. Oh, that's not even to mention the ancient robot deity that is chasing you. You just want a place to lie down...
Abilities: You have no outstanding abilities at this time.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

Welcome, geraintm.

You are are a Mycosynth Golem, Town-Aligned Metal Master of Mycosynth. You are the embodiment of Karn here on Mirrodin. He gave you specific instructions: stop Memnarch using the mycosynth. Now, Glissa Sunseeker has appeared to fight Memnarch, and they say the enemy of my enemy is my friend...
Abilities: You are metal. You cannot be killed in any way.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

You are a Nim Lasher, Town-aligned Lasher. You hail from the Mephidross swamp, which has been increasingly threatened by the overlord Memnarch. Perhaps this elf woman you've heard rumors about would make a suitable ally for overthrowing Memnarch.
Abilities: You are metal. You cannot be killed in any way.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

Welcome, Porkens.

You are the Eternal Witness, town-aligned Witness. You remember the old world. Then Memnarch stole you away to this metal monstrosity he calls a world. For years, you have hidden, learning the passageways and hidden places of Mirrodin. Now, the elf-girl Glissa is ready to face Memnarch. You will give your support to her cause.
Abilities: You have no outstanding abilities at this time.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

Welcome, TonyMontana.

You are a Moriok Scavenger, town-aligned graverobber.
Geth was told to send a few good men to the core of Mirrodin, and kill the elf Glissa. Well, you were one of those sent. And you failed. Now, you have joined up with the elf girl--your lord Geth forsook you, and his lord now wants you dead. It really was the only sensible option.
Abilities: You have no outstanding abilities.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

Welcome, CF Riot.

You are a Neurok Spy, town-aligned Spy. Well, since Bruenna is sick at the Krark-Home base, you have been sent to help Glissa in her stead. Maybe your...talents can help in some way.
Abilities: You have no outstanding abilities at this time.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

Welcome, CF Riot.

As you go to hide during the night, a crowd of moth-like creatures surround you. Soon, you feel a strange feeling. Then, time seems to slow. The world feels...different. It's obvious, you have ascended to the next level.

You have been serumed!

Using your powers as a spy, you can follow someone tonight, learning who, if anyone, they target.

PS: No, this is not a screw up. You are serumed.

[Porkens]

I think Vi is more likely to be godfather than SK, if he is scum- why would the SK only get a nightkill when they get serumed- that's the crappiest SK role ever- although I suppose this partially applies to my supposition that he is godfather also

My understanding of godfather is probably different than yours? Mine is: Will appear as town if investigated by a cop.

I'm anticipating more of a JOAT role from Vi as the independent party. Get the serum once-get a few one-shot or limited-shot powers; hence the confirmed double-voting and the suspected metal-murdering.

Also if I am an SK, it would seem quite a lame and unfair SK that seems to get guaranteed in almost ever player's pm (I did not know this at the time I claimed either, it was just lucky that I happened to look very scummy and it served to verify me). If Vi flips town I anticipate votes coming my way due to what Porkens said unfortunately, which would cause us to lose as I am town

I don't know what you mean by "guaranteed" here. And, how did looking scummy serve to verify you? If Vi flips town; I think we have lost this one, but I don't see a good alternative. You are more likely town than Vi, so I'm putting all my eggs in one basket.

I really don't like you wanting to go to night within 3? pages of the last night. Illumina hasn't even had time to answer my question. Seems somewhat scummy.

I see your point, and I'm totally fine with you unvoting until we get some more information. I was getting ramped up by the idea of the deadline on Sunday, and after that long analysis post I guess I think I've fairly well "figured it out" :p

[Porkens]

If Vi flips town I anticipate votes coming my way due to what Porkens said unfortunately, which would cause us to lose as I am town

Wait a minute, wait a minute. If you didn't kill Grem, and you don't think Vi killed Grem, how do you think he died?

[Illumina]

About a page was generated as I was posting, and it's currently 2am. I'll address new stuff tomorrow. However, I'm not really for a Vi lynch. Two things are apparent to me right now:

1) It's logical that our mod would have provided safeclaims against a massclaim. Therefore, you have to assume that some players are lying about their claim. If you're going to fakeclaim steel, an artifact golem (geraintm's claim) is a clear and obvious choice. It's also generic when you might expect the flavor to fit into the five moons/colors/regions of Mirrodin theme we have going. However, claiming something that specific is risky.

2) It doesn't make sense for metal scum to claim metal: it's just an invitation to mycosynth. Metal scum would obviously claim flesh, so we waste time lynching him, and flesh scum is more likely to claim metal so we waste time mycosynthing him. Here we are getting distracted by Vi, when TM or geraintm could well be mafia or the SK (lurking/scummy consistently, stalling on claim, generic claim, etc.).

Also, Vi is not my scumbuddy, if he were I would have hammered TM and not been critical of him bringing TM in hammer range...

More tomorrow, don't lynch anybody in the meantime.

[ortolan]

I think Vi is more likely to be godfather than SK, if he is scum- why would the SK only get a nightkill when they get serumed- that's the crappiest SK role ever- although I suppose this partially applies to my supposition that he is godfather also

My understanding of godfather is probably different than yours? Mine is: Will appear as town if investigated by a cop.

I'm anticipating more of a JOAT role from Vi as the independent party. Get the serum once-get a few one-shot or limited-shot powers; hence the confirmed double-voting and the suspected metal-murdering.

I only meant Godfather in that he is scum leader as in Memnarch

Also if I am an SK, it would seem quite a lame and unfair SK that seems to get guaranteed in almost ever player's pm (I did not know this at the time I claimed either, it was just lucky that I happened to look very scummy and it served to verify me). If Vi flips town I anticipate votes coming my way due to what Porkens said unfortunately, which would cause us to lose as I am town

I don't know what you mean by "guaranteed" here. And, how did looking scummy serve to verify you? If Vi flips town; I think we have lost this one, but I don't see a good alternative. You are more likely town than Vi, so I'm putting all my eggs in one basket.

I mean guaranteed in that most people's role pm says "you will give your support to Glissa" or something like that. Glissa is me and I have not been counter-claimed. That is what I consider to be "guaranteed" to a large extent. And looking scummy did not serve to verify me, I meant that in light of the fact I looked scummy when in fact I am town, the fact that I was Glissa was helpful because it gave people a good indication that I was not actually scum, even though I had previously looked like it.

[ortolan]

Also, Vi is not my scumbuddy, if he were I would have hammered TM and not been critical of him bringing TM in hammer range...

That's not true, if you quickhammered you would have been lynched tomorrow so there's one incentive for not having done so. Furthermore scum often attack each other to look townie, or avoid being associated with one another should one's alignment be revealed.

1) It's logical that our mod would have provided safeclaims against a massclaim. Therefore, you have to assume that some players are lying about their claim. If you're going to fakeclaim steel, an artifact golem (geraintm's claim) is a clear and obvious choice. It's also generic when you might expect the flavor to fit into the five moons/colors/regions of Mirrodin theme we have going. However, claiming something that specific is risky.

I agree entirely about geraintm's claim- I am skeptical of it also and meant to say as much in my last big post, but must have forgotten. His claims seems quite a good justification for being metal scum.

If Vi flips town I anticipate votes coming my way due to what Porkens said unfortunately, which would cause us to lose as I am town

Wait a minute, wait a minute. If you didn't kill Grem, and you don't think Vi killed Grem, how do you think he died?

It is still possible that it is something in the game mechanics (wasn't that point made earlier, the oddness of him being a "metal body double" and dying, whatever that means?), or simply an example of a scum role that doesn't need serum (it was already proven contrary to what Natirasha said initially that some roles, such as Seraphim's, did not need serum to have their abilities activated). And btw, I believe I was the first to draw attention to the possibility that Vi was responsible for Gremwell's death, so I certainly still don't think this is unlikely. My unvote was more based in wanting more discussion rather than not thinking he is scum.

[Porkens]

Ahhh I see what you're saying about 'guarantees.'

Well, I see what you mean about Memnarch, but I don't agree. I think Triskelion is a true claim but the alignment is 3rd party.

[Porkens]

My unvote was more based in wanting more discussion rather than not thinking he is scum.

I think we're on the same page.

[Vi]

if you're town it's extremely irresponsible to put all 3 votes on L-1, and the fact that you did it immediatly after being voted makes it that more suspicious.

Not really; I've already said why.
All of my votes put someone to at least L-2 anyway.

---

I'm not at all convinced of TM's scumminess. Look at post 876 where he attacks MafiaSSK long before, for example, I realised MafiaSSK was scum. Porkens had only just placed suspicion on MafiaSSK before that and were TM scum trying to save his buddy he could have simply refrained from posting or focused on something else at that point to avoid bandwagoning his buddy.

rlynao

I do believe you didn't know TE claimed, cause honestly who bothers reading the random stage when replacing. I also believe you were a rolecop. It's just made either irrelevant, or suspicious by the fact that you refuse to quote your role PM.

That's the kindest, gentlest "attack" I've ever seen. obvbus

I agree, think about what sort of powers scum might get from the serum. If they got an extra night-kill, SURELY the mod would also give them an ability which they could prove they had the next day to avoid making it obvious that the extra night-kill was due to them getting the serum. The double-voting seems a perfect example of this- it's not too strong either. Of course it's also kind of consistent with a metal townie- the mod wouldn't want to make their ability overpowered for town if they're already metal and non-night-killable.

I hope for your sake that you aren't modding any games here or elsewhere in the near future. Quick rundown here.

You say I

must

be scum because this setup makes sense:
*Part of being scum means games are usually imbalanced in my favor to start with.
*I can already kill someone at night (with a few other people's input) as scum.
*With the serum, I can kill someone ELSE on my own.
*With the serum, I can ALSO doublevote. As scum, this pushes the time when

we

control the majority of the votes (endgame) forward one day.
*Lest you forget, I was metal at the start of the game and basically invincible to any Town vigging, SKs, lynches, copper bread buns, or whatever else is out there.
*The serum-fueled kill is perfectly explained by a "falseclaim" of doublevoting, except it's not a falseclaim at all.

But I

must not

be Town because this setup doesn't make sense:
*I was metal, ergo immune to NKs.
*With the serum, I can doublevote. Doublevoting is less of a threat in Town hands than scum, IMO, because I'm not deliberately trying to end the game (see other list).

It's also obvious from the claims we've seen that the scum were given at least two fake-claims between them, perhaps communally or perhaps individually.

Obvious? How so?

Furthermore I think for game balance reasons, assuming there is only 3 scum (which there really must be, would be too unbalanced otherwise), then there is/was at least one metal townie, even if Timeater/Vi is actually scum. From that I infer the last two scum probably is/were metal. Tell me if you think that's a bad assumption.

I wouldn't assume it immediately. The easy way to go about this is to synth everyone at this point.

But, c'mon Vi's jumped around FoSing the townies looking players- CF Riot and TM.

Maybe because I don't see them as townie looking?
Or to put it in a more sanguine manner--

God, CF, if you're scum, I can see you winning this one already. But Ort is just shoveling himself deeper with every single post, so I don't really care!

Nonetheless, you'll notice I still haven't VOTED CF Riot. 'Wonder why that is, mmm?

It's possible that CF Riot (and Porkens/TM) have gone to a hugely elaborate gambit with their scumbuddy MafiaSSK and deliberately both tried to not give him the serum day one despite it being randomly chosen, and further bandwagoned him to get him lynched, but if they were clever enough to do this to clear them town never had a chance.

Bussing.

Do you understand it?

The odds of there being scum on the SSK wagon are pretty good. To me, the SSK wagon looked like a follow-the-Porkens-so-we-get-a-lynch deal. Which is why Porkens is very much off my suspect list, and I don't think it helps anyone else.

As far as not seruming,
*CF Riot didn't give Tuberkulos the serum in the first place.
*TonyMontana serumed Tuberkulos and

never argued against it

.
*geraintm serumed Tuberkulos, told people who were looking at Tuberkulos for lurking to look at Gremwell too, and never withdraws it (calling Illumina something of a traitor for leaving it).
*Illumina serumed Tuberkulos, but had second thoughts later. Did not withdraw it.
*ortolan serumed Tuberkulos, having second thoughts later but not withdrawing it.

---

Something that helped me to remember though was: We hung MSSK because of his claimed role and behavior, not his flavor.

Bingo.

Two people got the Serum last night - Ort and Vi. If we can possibly assume that only Serraphim had a free ability (to give the serum), as the rules of the game suggest, one of them; Ort and Vi, must have gotten an ability that let them kill Gremwell, even though he was metal.

What makes you so sure that there isn't another person with a non-Vanilla ability? It would make sense for Memnarch (not me) to have it. And it's not like the mod was telling the whole truth the first time...
Another thing to consider - ortolan's claim was

never proven

; in fact it's unprovable. So why is everyone jumping on me for my seruming, again?

IIRC, Vi has also pushed for getting the serum.

No, I didn't. I was the one saying

there's no point in me getting the serum

, as I didn't see anything in my Role PM that hinted at what would happen.

----

what does this refer to?

I didn't want the day to end without everyone having claimed.

you realise this explanation makes you look worse now,dont you?

Somewhat. I'm not going to try to alter history.

----

My understanding of godfather is probably different than yours? Mine is: Will appear as town if investigated by a cop.

It appears the popular understanding of Godfather in this game is: Memnarch. Does whatever the hell he wants.

If Vi flips town; I think we have lost this one, but I don't see a good alternative. You are more likely town than Vi, so I'm putting all my eggs in one basket.

Why?
Until ortolan claimed Glissa Sunseeker, you and a number of other people wanted ortolan to be shot, in this game and possibly outside it.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. If you didn't kill Grem, and you don't think Vi killed Grem, how do you think he died?

Memnarch. Does whatever the hell he wants. It would make some flavor sense, and since we're not assured that every role is vanilla...

I think Triskelion is a true claim but the alignment is 3rd party.

Given the text quoted to you, that's understandable. Incorrect, but understandable.

-------------
@@@@@@
-------------

Conclusions:

*Why is TonyMontana still alive.
*Illumina's note that he could have hammered TonyMontana when he was at L-1 can show that there's no link between US, but doesn't disprove a link with TonyMontana. I still think it's TM and Illumina for the win. (At this point,

their

win).
*I'm going to have to decide on geraintm's claim being okay. In addition to being specifically Mycosynth-based - which pairs with Seraphim's Blinkmoth-based claim - he quoted it without hesitation.
*ortolan is losing the game for Town again. I'm having a hard time deciding whether Glissa is a falseclaim or not, but I would place him as third to TonyMontana and Illumina.
*

Lord, this town fails.

Any questions you may have for me are welcomed. Any hate mail you may have for me will be politely ignored half the time.

[TonyMontana]

if you're town it's extremely irresponsible to put all 3 votes on L-1, and the fact that you did it immediatly after being voted makes it that more suspicious.

Not really; I've already said why.
All of my votes put someone to at least L-2 anyway.

You put *everyone* at L-1.
And I fail to see where you explained how putting the vote, synth and serum on L-1 was *not* risky. I did find where you explained why you *wouldn't* put them to L-2, tho, a few posts before you put them to L-1.

[CF Riot]

I wrote a big, beautiful post in the school library, and then my screen went black. So I may try it again later but for now I need to study for my Chem final so this the short version, or my conclusions.

I think Vi and TM are NOT scum together. I think 2 of Vi, TM, Illumina, and Geraintm are scum. On play alone, Illumina looks town to me. On flavor and claim confusion and her ties to Vi, Ill looks scummish.

Because of this, I think Vi is the best lynch today. If he flips scum, it semi-confirms TM (IMO) and also implicates Illumina. If he flips town, it really doesn't say anything about TM, but sort of restores my faith in Illumina.

The thing that I'm contemplating now is whether we should synth Ill or Geraintm. If it's a TM/Geraintm combo and TM is actually steel-claiming-flesh, then we would be screwed tomorrow if we tried to lynch him. So maybe synth Geraintm today and if Vi flips scum then synth Ill tomorrow because we won't be in LYLO in that scenario and a mislynch would be okay. What say you town?

Natirasha: Will you confirm that the information in the first post is correct? If not, will you fix it?

What I'm referring to is it says Ort has been serumed 0 times. I want to know if that's right.

[Porkens]

Natirasha: Will you confirm that the information in the first post is correct? If not, will you fix it? What I'm referring to is it says Ort has been serumed 0 times. I want to know if that's right.

UNVOTE

[Vi]

if you're town it's extremely irresponsible to put all 3 votes on L-1, and the fact that you did it immediatly after being voted makes it that more suspicious.

Not really; I've already said why.
All of my votes put someone to at least L-2 anyway.

You put *everyone* at L-1.
And I fail to see where you explained how putting the vote, synth and serum on L-1 was *not* risky. I did find where you explained why you *wouldn't* put them to L-2, tho, a few posts before you put them to L-1.

And L-1 means nothing in the long run.
As far as it not being risky at the time I voted, it's quite simple. I didn't want anyone to end the day before all claims were made. Now that all claims have been made, I'd like to go forward with what I believe without forcing my will upon others (that is, going past L-1). If anyone wants to quickhammer, all it can do is hurt them. It's not rocket surgery.

The thing that I'm contemplating now is whether we should synth Ill or Geraintm. If it's a TM/Geraintm combo and TM is actually steel-claiming-flesh, then we would be screwed tomorrow if we tried to lynch him. So maybe synth Geraintm today and if Vi flips scum then synth Ill tomorrow because we won't be in LYLO in that scenario and a mislynch would be okay. What say you town?

Just the usual problem. I'm still having a difficult time understanding how from a balance standpoint you can think I'm a ludicrously overpowered scum. And even if you hang me as an SK (for argument's sake, although an SK that can't kill without serum is royally retarded), you'll still be in LyLo tomorrow.

So incidentally, CF, why am I scum?

@Porkens: Oh wow. I think I see the implication.

[ortolan]

yes, it should need confirming but I suspect it's merely a typo:

The town gives you the serum. The metallic taste is horrible, but soon...the world feels different. You have ascended to a higher level of power.

You just need to think. Using your newfound skill, though, you have found a place where no one will find you. A place where you can stop and figure out what to do.

For the remainder of the night, you are now untargetable to any actions that would target you.

[Natirasha]

ortolan has been serumed.

[Porkens]

Vote: Vi

[Porkens]

Oho! And, also;

You are Triskelion, town-aligned metal fleet.
You are the Blinkmoth Nexus, town-aligned Serum Giver.
You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist.
You are are a Mycosynth Golem, Town-Aligned Metal Master of Mycosynth.
You are a Nim Lasher, Town-aligned Lasher.
You are a Moriok Scavenger, town-aligned graverobber.
You are the Eternal Witness, town-aligned Witness.
You are a Neurok Spy, town-aligned Spy.

Look close and tell me which two are noticeably different. Then look at who those claims belong to.

[Illumina]

Sorry it took me so long to comment.

I think Vi is unlikely to be an SK (as he points out, a vig who needs the serum to kill seems really underpowered, and therefore unlikely). Even as scum, it seems slightly overpowered, although it's still a possibility.

I'm still suspicious of TM and Geraintm due to their delayed claims, and I find them the most suspicious currently. I'd like to know who they think is suspicious and why.

Also, it seems relatively unlikely that Glissa would be a scum safeclaim, as the protagonist. For that reason, I tend to believe ort's claim.

Btw, we've already reached a synth and serum majority, so now the last choice is who to lynch.

Porkens: are we sure the mod didn't make any typos?

[Illumina]

Sorry it took me so long to comment.

I think Vi is unlikely to be an SK (as he points out, a vig who needs the serum to kill seems really underpowered, and therefore unlikely). Even as scum, it seems slightly overpowered, although it's still a possibility.

I'm still suspicious of TM and Geraintm due to their delayed claims, and I find them the most suspicious currently. I'd like to know who they think is suspicious and why.

Also, it seems relatively unlikely that Glissa would be a scum safeclaim, as the protagonist. For that reason, I tend to believe ort's claim.

Btw, we've already reached a synth and serum majority, so now the last choice is who to lynch.

Porkens: are we sure the mod didn't make any typos?

[Illumina]

Sorry for the doublepost, got an error the first time and didn't think it went through.

[CF Riot]

Unvote.

on phone.

[Vi]

Oho! And, also;

You are Triskelion, town-aligned metal fleet.
You are the Blinkmoth Nexus, town-aligned Serum Giver.
You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist.
You are are a Mycosynth Golem, Town-Aligned Metal Master of Mycosynth.
You are a Nim Lasher, Town-aligned Lasher.
You are a Moriok Scavenger, town-aligned graverobber.
You are the Eternal Witness, town-aligned Witness.
You are a Neurok Spy, town-aligned Spy.

Look close and tell me which two are noticeably different. Then look at who those claims belong to.

There are a few pairs that are noticeably different. But I think I can see which two people you're looking at.
And there's another thing that's different about one of those two, if you consider who has claimed metal...

Perhaps my/our priorities are misordered, as far as lynching and mycosynthing goes?

[Porkens]

Be more specific about what you think I see.

[Porkens]

Porkens: are we sure the mod didn't make any typos?

I'm certain he did.

[Vi]

Be more specific about what you think I see.

You are Triskelion, town-aligned

metal

fleet.
You are the Blinkmoth Nexus, town-aligned Serum Giver.
You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist.
You are are a Mycosynth Golem,

T

own-Aligned

Metal

Master of Mycosynth.
You are a Nim Lasher,

T

own-aligned

[metal]

Lasher.
You are a Moriok Scavenger, town-aligned graverobber.
You are the Eternal Witness, town-aligned Witness.
You are a Neurok Spy, town-aligned Spy.

[You are a]

Death-Mask Duplicant,

T

own-Aligned

Metal

Body Double

The bolded (what I think you see) seems to have been changed in NB's roleflips to caps in every case but one, but I wanted to toss that one flip in at the bottom so you could see what I saw (italicized).