Open 885: Backup6 [Game Over]

[Black]

VOTE: Dannflor

I kinda wanna let Alianna cook

[meowmeow]

i think mafia would know the setup, since at the start of the game they get their roles - rb or no rb - and almost always talk about what that means. mafia also need to know for pr hunting. snivy's claims that dumbslips are nai fall kind of flat to me - i think if he wanted to know the setup, it wouldn't be super hard to look rather than post something like 805, and newd3 does also have tracker + doc. to me it does just like he's trying to be like "i don't know the setup so i'm town" - it just does feel performative to me.

i do also think his confidence on the iavh read is overstated. to give an example of what i mean, since it was being argued earlier - please take a look at this game. i'm publicly an alt of ausuka, to be clear. in this game, i defend enchant a lot on d1, even going so far as to call him 'hard town' and generally like digging into that position. gimli calls me out for this at some point and says my read on enchant is tmi. and he's right - in that game, i genuinely *did* think enchant was pretty towny and the pushes on him were bad and he looked more like his town meta. but given what he had done at that point, there is no way town!me calls him 'hard town' or defends him the way i did in a million years. i wanted to overstate my confidence there because if i soft defended enchant, even though that'd be more realistic, i knew i could be called out for it later. anyway, i do think snivy's confidence and insistence on town iavh is off and he's overplaying it.

these paragraphs are very, very interesting and i think they're probably very ai for meowmeow. i just can't decide which way.

uh this kind of sounds like not being ai with extra steps?

[meowmeow]

like what does 'interesting' mean here

[meowmeow]

I think there's a world where he's scum and his whole agenda has been to put on this nonchalant townie act with townslips, not paying attention, etc, but some of his posts/interactions and stances have felt genuine enough for me to really doubt this

Talk to me about your Abnegation read

also w/ the townslip, which i think is only one? i do think if snivy is scum it makes a lot more sense for his scum partner to have come up with it

as i said in my big post, snivy is obviously not familiar with newd3 which is part of why the whole thing was so strange. i don't think it's something he'd go for as either alignment and it was just executed in an unnatural way. it makes a lot more sense if someone else came up with it over the night phase, and i think that's also just inherently more likely than snivy just deciding he wants to townslip suddenly

[Abnegation]

i think mafia would know the setup, since at the start of the game they get their roles - rb or no rb - and almost always talk about what that means. mafia also need to know for pr hunting. snivy's claims that dumbslips are nai fall kind of flat to me - i think if he wanted to know the setup, it wouldn't be super hard to look rather than post something like 805, and newd3 does also have tracker + doc. to me it does just like he's trying to be like "i don't know the setup so i'm town" - it just does feel performative to me.

i do also think his confidence on the iavh read is overstated. to give an example of what i mean, since it was being argued earlier - please take a look at this game. i'm publicly an alt of ausuka, to be clear. in this game, i defend enchant a lot on d1, even going so far as to call him 'hard town' and generally like digging into that position. gimli calls me out for this at some point and says my read on enchant is tmi. and he's right - in that game, i genuinely *did* think enchant was pretty towny and the pushes on him were bad and he looked more like his town meta. but given what he had done at that point, there is no way town!me calls him 'hard town' or defends him the way i did in a million years. i wanted to overstate my confidence there because if i soft defended enchant, even though that'd be more realistic, i knew i could be called out for it later. anyway, i do think snivy's confidence and insistence on town iavh is off and he's overplaying it.

these paragraphs are very, very interesting and i think they're probably very ai for meowmeow. i just can't decide which way.

uh this kind of sounds like not being ai with extra steps?

in practice yes, the difference is more in my head.

like what does 'interesting' mean here

interesting means it interests me and i am noting it for when/if i decide what i think of it.

I think there's a world where he's scum and his whole agenda has been to put on this nonchalant townie act with townslips, not paying attention, etc, but some of his posts/interactions and stances have felt genuine enough for me to really doubt this

Talk to me about your Abnegation read

also w/ the townslip, which i think is only one? i do think if snivy is scum it makes a lot more sense for his scum partner to have come up with it

as i said in my big post, snivy is obviously not familiar with newd3 which is part of why the whole thing was so strange. i don't think it's something he'd go for as either alignment and it was just executed in an unnatural way. it makes a lot more sense if someone else came up with it over the night phase, and i think that's also just inherently more likely than snivy just deciding he wants to townslip suddenly

who here do you think would come up with that? i may be projecting, but i would not tell my partner to do that and i really don't see who would. is this something you think you might come up with?

[meowmeow]

i mean yes - obviously if i got the chance to communicate with snivy i would've gotten him to say it very differently but the core idea of 'pretend not to have information about the setup/get the setup wrong' doesn't seem especially novel or outlandish and i'm surprised you see it that way? unless you're specifically talking about "snivy please the exact second d2 opens ask everyone what roles exist for literally no reason and do it in an incredible way" which yes no one would do but people don't tend to communicate that specifically

i don't think happy would come up with it. i think anyone else in this game could

[Dannflor]

VOTE: abnegation

[Dannflor]

her posting on this page and the last feels… performative to me and not in a town way

[Dannflor]

I’ve decided that two minute read is more accurate than any read I’m gonna get by rereading and analyzing the game

[meowmeow]

and like the asking about interesting wasn't because i don't know what the word interesting means or whatever? i think a lot of your recent posting has been like ... increasingly "empty in a way that wants people to think it isn't empty" and i would like to hear some alignment thoughts. like your most recent actual read is saying actually snivy might be scum and suddenly he's your second strongest townread? the 'this is interesting but i'm not sure what i think of it' type of post is like... not that uncommon, and not inherently bad, but in this case i'd like you to elaborate on your thoughts to show you are actually thinking about it. that type of post generally means you have reasons to think it might be very towny or very scummy and they're conflicting. i know i am me but i think the paragraphs you quoted just like... aren't super ai for me either way.

pedit: oops

[meowmeow]

i got dannflorred

[Abnegation]

i mean yes - obviously if i got the chance to communicate with snivy i would've gotten him to say it very differently but the core idea of 'pretend not to have information about the setup/get the setup wrong' doesn't seem especially novel or outlandish and i'm surprised you see it that way? unless you're specifically talking about "snivy please the exact second d2 opens ask everyone what roles exist for literally no reason and do it in an incredible way" which yes no one would do but people don't tend to communicate that specifically

i don't think happy would come up with it. i think anyone else in this game could

in my experience, townslips don't tend to actually get read as town and a significant amount of the time they will draw suspicion or get dismissed as nai.

[meowmeow]

in my experience they get read as town pretty frequently shrug

obviously if you townslip in a weird way people will call it out

[meowmeow]

and like even if it's actually a bad strategy or whatever i think it's p uncontroversially something mafia do so i'm not sure i see the relevance

[Dannflor]

I think like the chances are that snivy and his scum team mate planned out a dumbslip over the night time is pretty slim, and if scum that was just something snivy instinctually did at day start

But I think meowmeow considering that world is pretty towny in terms of complex thoughts town are more likely to have

[meowmeow]

i mean i struggle to see ccs organically doing the newd3 thing as mafia in the same way i struggle to see him doing it as town

it's possible the partner just mentioned it after as potential damage control shrug

[Aureal]

So who do people think Snivy would be partnered with if he's scum?

[meowmeow]

i feel like the correct answer is 'i don't know'

like, i think the only person i'm comfortable ruling out is happy based on associatives. even then i'd reconsider that if i got to 3p elo and would hope others do the same

i could go through isos and rank everyone else i guess? so far i've mostly been focusing on 'teams which are possible' and 'teams which are unlikely' which feels more productive for d2 - i don't really expect to nail the team

it could be dannflor pretty realistically i think. it could be abnegation. it could even be you!

[camelCasedSnivy]

So who do people think Snivy would be partnered with if he's scum?

nobody

[camelCasedSnivy]

her posting on this page and the last feels… performative to me and not in a town way

i dunno she might cook

[Ircher]

Day 2 VC #7

Abnegation

(2): Aureal (1019), Dannflor (1081)

Dannflor

(2): camelCasedSnivy (1027), Black (1075)

camelCasedSnivy

(1): meowmeow (842)

Not Voting

(2): Abnegation, iamveryhappy

With seven alive, it takes four votes to fade a player.

Deadlines

This phase will end on Thursday, October 12, 2023 5:30 PM CDT (GMT-5:00) or in (expired on 2023-10-12 17:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1: If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2: Let me know if you spot any errors in the vote count or voting history.
3: Let me know if you go by a different pronoun than listed.
4: The moderator is V/LA from October 9 to October 11.

Pronoun Key

1. camelCasedSnivy : he / him / his
3. Black : she / her / her
4. Aureal : she / her / her
6. Dannflor : he / him / his
7. meowmeow : any / any / any
8. iamveryhappy : he / him / his
9. Abnegation : she / her / her

[Ircher]

Seeking a replacement for iamveryhappy. If he returns before I find a replacement, he can keep his slot (but should message me before posting).

[Abnegation]

meh, re-reading the entire game is probably not going to be that helpful.
i don't really know where to start, in terms of actually getting reads, but i guess this page is as good as any.

[Abnegation]

her posting on this page and the last feels… performative to me and not in a town way

i dunno she might cook

^ town
idk how to explain but i guess i like how this post is optimistic about me? there's no agenda or opportunism there, it's just "give her a chance, see what she comes up with."

[Abnegation]

and like the asking about interesting wasn't because i don't know what the word interesting means or whatever? i think a lot of your recent posting has been like ... increasingly "empty in a way that wants people to think it isn't empty" and i would like to hear some alignment thoughts.

like your most recent actual read is saying actually snivy might be scum and suddenly he's your second strongest townread?

the 'this is interesting but i'm not sure what i think of it' type of post is like... not that uncommon, and not inherently bad, but in this case i'd like you to elaborate on your thoughts to show you are actually thinking about it. that type of post generally means you have reasons to think it might be very towny or very scummy and they're conflicting. i know i am me but i think the paragraphs you quoted just like... aren't super ai for me either way.

pedit: oops

it's not like i just suddenly started townreading him. i already had a townread for the reasons in 956. yes, i had doubts and explained why i was having doubts, but ultimately i decided those doubts don't outweigh my prior townread.

i might have made a mistake in bringing that up. it's interesting for a reason that's not a good idea to explain at this point in the game, but i was curious how you and others might react, if anyone would say something suggesting they see what i'm seeing, etc. what i can say is that i'm currently leaning in the town direction for the original post and the reaction. you seem completely clueless about what i might be seeing in that post, and that is the reaction i expected from town. to be fair, idk what i expected from scum, but that has to count for something.

in my experience they get read as town pretty frequently shrug

obviously if you townslip in a weird way people will call it out

okay, fair, this is probably just a difference in perspective.

i mean i struggle to see ccs organically doing the newd3 thing as mafia in the same way i struggle to see him doing it as town

it's possible the partner just mentioned it after as potential damage control shrug

i don't see the newd3 thing as pre-planned by a partner. i don't think it would occur to someone who actually knows how newd3 works (which i'm pretty sure most of us do) to use "i was thinking of newd3" as an excuse for that slip. to me that part looks like snivy genuinely got things mixed up.