Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Hero at Heart]

ari, kittens, THS - what do you think of drew/implosion on page 7?

[Datisi]

HURT: merlyn
HEAL: implo

i saw that i have 1 notification from mala and i thought it was going to be her responding to the 1 question i asked her, but no it wasn't. yes i'm complaining for the sake of it.

anyway uhh. merlyn i'm starting to like less after someone pointed out that she hasn't really had that many reads (oh it was implo pog) and after reading that i can easily see her slot playing in a sort of quiet townie don't rock the boat scum play. implo feels townie. i liked the drew read and the merlyn read was a good catch. also i do have Thoughts on the drew/implo thing but considering the post right above me, i comment later

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

also uh i will be pretty busy and confined to phoneposting for most of the day. this will likely not impact much but on the off chance it does i'm putting it out there. ok cool.

[Hero at Heart]

@merlyn, i have another question:
how much experience do you have playing scum? both on this site and in general.

[Hero at Heart]

and @datisi thanks for holding off your thoughts.

[Aristeia]

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

maybe me you implo hero and bella

very much a 6am not very awake thought

[Aristeia]

ari, kittens, THS - what do you think of drew/implosion on page 7?

not much of anything tbh

aren't you supposed to be the confident one carrying us to the easy win

[Bellaphant]

Huh, I felt like Ari low key sr me?

[Hero at Heart]

ari, kittens, THS - what do you think of drew/implosion on page 7?

not much of anything tbh

aren't you supposed to be the confident one carrying us to the easy win

Spoiler: fluffy answer

well i mean i don't mind being a town mayor, but i'm a democratic mayor and i listen to my people, duh.

Spoiler: serious answer

i am trying to sort you, THS and kittens based on your answers. also if kittens or THS read this before answering, do me a favor and answer truthfully so i can sort you properly.[/quote]

[Aristeia]

so how's the sorting going

[TheHoldSteady]

Answer what truthfully specifically

[TheHoldSteady]

I'm admittedly having trouble getting out of the weeds here. But I have nothing to be untruthful about

[TheHoldSteady]

But I think it is +town just for the brazenness of a seemingly relatively new player being like "nah i'm really not playing how scum would be playing in this setup lol" in this way.

I want to lean town on THS bc I don't agree with most of the case that Hero laid out. But I think it's dangerous to paint THS with the 'new scum would never do X' brush bc I just came off of two games where he fooled me and just about everyone else as the most towny scum I've seen in a while. I don't know if he's played somewhere else before and I haven't asked but he's very good.

Scum comes a lot more naturally to me than town does, unfortunately town is the alignment I feel more awkward in and I'm still learning how to play.

[TheHoldSteady]

Imp brought up a fair point about Merlyn but ehhh ik null on this slot, I'm not seeing anything different from the two games I played with her granted I was scum there but she's playing pretty similarly. Could be LHF.

I like Hero, I feel like it seems like a genuine way a more experienced player would look at a scatterbrained town like me.

I'm not really understanding Ari's progression on Hero; seemed to be pinging him in the earlier pages but now is referring to him as "town mayor" and putting him in the coalition.

[TheHoldSteady]

I almost expect more from Merlyn if she's scum. I'm recalling someone said somewhere that she has a pretty strong scum game. If you want to be in the coalition you have to be proactive and I'm just seeing a totally different approach from her.

[Merlyn]

I almost expect more from Merlyn if she's scum. I'm recalling someone said somewhere that she has a pretty strong scum game. If you want to be in the coalition you have to be proactive and I'm just seeing a totally different approach from her.

This is gonna look like I just said this bc you gave me an opening, but I'm posting here before I go back and respond to stuff bc I've been thinking about this game and I feel like there's a sense of urgency that I find strange. Like, there's this push to solve by pg 10, it's scummy that I don't have a set of reads by pg 6 (by page 6!?), there's a request to have a set of coalition choices by Friday...I don't get it. The game opened less than 2 days ago. There's 14 days from the time I'm posting now before day ends. Two freaking weeks left! When I signed up for this game and saw there was a 16 day D1, I planned to take my time figuring things out. And I'm going to stick to that if I can.

One of the things I'll be considering is whether I think this rush is scum-driven or just overzealous town (or both). My gut reaction is to say yes. But it's probably not enough to accurately read someone, so it's just something I'll take into account along with all of the rest of the stuff that gets said.

[Merlyn]

But I think it is +town just for the brazenness of a seemingly relatively new player being like "nah i'm really not playing how scum would be playing in this setup lol" in this way.

I want to lean town on THS bc I don't agree with most of the case that Hero laid out. But I think it's dangerous to paint THS with the 'new scum would never do X' brush bc I just came off of two games where he fooled me and just about everyone else as the most towny scum I've seen in a while. I don't know if he's played somewhere else before and I haven't asked but he's very good.

I don't even feel like that's a play that "good" scum is likely to make. It's the kind of thing that probably a lot of good scum would avoid because it's practically likely to be scumread by a good swathe of people.

I don't even feel like that's a play that "good" scum is likely to make. It's the kind of thing that probably a lot of good scum would avoid because it's practically likely to be scumread by a good swathe of people.

Are you making the mistake of assuming how a player, especially one that you are not familiar with, would play under a certain alignment?

Especially when there is another player, Merlyn in this case, has first hand experience with THS as scum......and you are seemingly poo poo-ing their read?

I don't even feel like that's a play that "good" scum is likely to make. It's the kind of thing that probably a lot of good scum would avoid because it's practically likely to be scumread by a good swathe of people.

Are you making the mistake of assuming how a player, especially one that you are not familiar with, would play under a certain alignment?

Especially when there is another player, Merlyn in this case, has first hand experience with THS as scum......and you are seemingly poo poo-ing their read?

this is just a weird take. 1, mafia is a game that is fundamentally built on a pile of assumptions. 2, I don't need to defer to someone else's read just because they've played with the person before. And most importantly 3, no, that's not what I'm doing at all, I'm making a reasoned counterargument to Merlyn's reasoning; she said that THS is a good scum player so we shouldn't townread him too easily and I gave the counterargument that my reason for townreading him should still apply even if he's a good scum player. It's also kind of heinous in isolation to say i'm "poo poo-ing" Merlyn's read just because I'm disagreeing with it and she's played with him before. Like, heck, i'm not allowed to disagree with someone???

This is bullshit.

You are doing mental gymnastics to town read THS, Merlyn just said 'Hey, I have seen them in the wild, they don't fuck around as scum'.

And you said nope, you aren't listening to actual first hand meta, and like I said assigning how you would play to another person.

I don't even think you are scum, just doing what I see too often from town who doesn't observe enough.

hey Doc, real quick, are you white knighting me?

[Merlyn]

It feels overexplainy in the way of scum who feels the need to appear justified rather than town who actually has reasons behind what they're doing

good point - i felt hesitant to tr that post but didn't know why. this point is actually very subtly scummy.

hard leaning town on implo atp, slight scumread on drew.

I don't have any real reads yet, I'm not sure why. Even the folx I have some town leans on are so tentative I don't really know if they're townleans.

could you tell us your townleans even if they're weak?

Bella and Mala. Pure vibes.

[implosion]

i'm just going to disengage from the line with Drew. although maybe i won't completely since hero says they want to see how it develops lol but I feel like it's almost certainly one of those things that is practically not going to be actually useful for sorting compared to how much it'd bog down the thread. I think it's probably very likely that Drew and I just sort of parse arguments in incompatible ways.

We've still got time but let's get some organization to our approach. I'd like to challenge everyone, by Friday, to come up with 2-3 people you absolutely want in your coalition, and 2-3 people you don't.

this posts feels really off, but not even in a scummy way. it feels like THS has to have zero gamestate awarenessbto make this post when multiple other people have already expressed their preferred coalition and he hasn't.
i doubt this is scum indicative, but i am noting it bc it's weird and i would like to have people's thoughts on this, if they have any thoughts.

It feels reminiscent of similar things I've seen other people do sometimes of like "hey everyone name your top scumread please!" and i feel like usually when people suggest such a thing they get pushback from everyone because no one really cares to follow orders. I don't think it really means much for THS's alignment (though see later in this post)

i think you misinterpreted it because he was replying to me saying it was scummy to make that joke.
does that change your read of him?

Yeah I did miss that, it dampens how much I find that post town significantly.

i am curious about that, could you please expand more on it?

104, 139 are probably the best examples. In the context of the rest of his posting I think 142 also might even be town-indicative. Part of it is that he has a view/approach to the game he's espousing that feels consistent and like something he's thought about rather than just coming up with something, but the bigger part is the way he's handling suspicion on himself. There's a degree of assuredness in both of those posts that reads as genuine to me.

[implosion]

I'm admittedly having trouble getting out of the weeds here. But I have nothing to be untruthful about

i feel like a lot of this game is going into the weeds remarkably quickly

[Merlyn]

We've still got time but let's get some organization to our approach. I'd like to challenge everyone, by Friday, to come up with 2-3 people you absolutely want in your coalition, and 2-3 people you don't.

this posts feels really off, but not even in a scummy way. it feels like THS has to have zero gamestate awarenessbto make this post when multiple other people have already expressed their preferred coalition and he hasn't.
i doubt this is scum indicative, but i am noting it bc it's weird and i would like to have people's thoughts on this, if they have any thoughts.

I think it's a rush and I don't like the rush. I'm keeping an eye on everyone who seems to be wanting to rush through D1 rn (but that also includes you lol)

[Merlyn]

actually like, idk how much exp you have with mala, i don't have that much, but she doesn't strike me as a sort of thinking 5 steps ahead scum player (no offense) that you're making her out to be there, do you think it's like, likely that scum-mala would've been thinking so much about something like that on page 2?

Hear me out.

Reading that post again by Dats, doesn't it read as he knows you are town?

Uhh...no?

[Merlyn]

Hero- I'm sure I saw you ask me how much exp I have being scum but I can't find the post. I'm pretty new and all my games (excluding some real life one night werewolf which does not help here in form mafia land) are here. I feel like I roll scum a lot actually, but I haven't gone back and counted how many town games to scum games.

[implosion]

it's scummy that I don't have a set of reads by pg 6 (by page 6!?),

I don't think this is a fair characterization. It's not that you "don't have a set of reads", it's that you hadn't given any at all, in conjunction with you saying that you'd already been townspewing which, no, does not mean "posting literally anything as town".

I do agree there isn't much of a real rush. But I feel like there's been lots of quite useful content so far. I don't really agree with THS's take that scum are necessarily proactive in this setup; yeah, they need to get in the coalition, and actually the point could have some truth to it if people are playing in such a way that the scum

feel

rushed. But I think it's entirely possible for scum to play under the radar, especially if they think their scumbuddy is going to get in to the coalition.

[Ausuka]

but it's just the price i pay

[Ausuka]

destiny is calling me