Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[Hu Tao]

Hi

[Hu Tao]

I havent been able to catch up yet. Reading 59 pages seems hard to do

[Hu Tao]

Oh my God. I may never replace this many pages into a game again. This is too much to catch up and I feel so lost. Especially with all these mechanics

[Hu Tao]

Oh my God. I may never replace this many pages into a game again. This is too much to catch up and I feel so lost. Especially with all these mechanics

It’s not as bad as it seems. I’m still a little lost after replacing in mid day 1, but it just feels like little extra bonus stuff in a mountainous game

Like honestly, saying fuck it I won't really catch up and just play going forward is kinda liberating.

Had one of my best town games replacing into a 165 page game with this attitude lol.

-

Okay. I'm doing this

[Hu Tao]

At end of day, if someone last minute changes messing up balance on Trading Post and Torture, that’s effectively a scum claim

Can you explain why torture is best?

[Hu Tao]

HURT: torture

[Hu Tao]

My readlist:

Meow, CSF, devil
Marci, RCE
Hu Tao, Aureal
Snivy, FL

Can you explain your read on me? Or is it from who I replaced

[Hu Tao]

Why is merlyn your biggest scum read?

[Hu Tao]

So regardless of if meow is town or scum?

[Hu Tao]

Based on what I've seen FL so far this is what I'm used to seeing from him, so he could be town. But I've never seen him scum

[Hu Tao]

My readlist:

Meow, CSF, devil
Marci, RCE
Hu Tao, Aureal
Snivy, FL

Can you explain your read on me? Or is it from who I replaced

I was a little higher on Roden, you just haven't done anything much since replacing in

I've never really played a game like this before that's themed. I've only really played regular mafia games. This is a bit overwhelming tbh.

[Hu Tao]

Why is merlyn your biggest scum read?

my main thing right now is im confident with my town reads.

Roden and I had a back and forth that I just feel never is coming from ScumRoden with you.

CSF has absolutely no agenda, and personally, I don't think it makes sense for scum to push torture on me the way they have.

Devil and I have been kinda soul reading each other here, and I feel they were being targeted because of it, and the need to weaken a town block forming between the two of us.

This leaves 7 other slots, and we know 4 are scum.

Cakez and Enchant while I wouldnt bet the game on them being town, has had a mixture of seeming like having no agenda, kinda existing, but then when they do a few things, it comes across townie.

Like i really dont think Enchant pushes or leans scum on me here as scum after last time. it feels more like townie Enchant.

Cakez back and forth on me gamestate from Day 1 looked like scum were trying to take advantage of Cakez vs FL.


Onto Merlyn, I believe Merlyn's been actively hiding behind, and I believe the way they joined the torture wagon looks like scum who has to join in for the sake of being townie. I've played with scumMerlyn twice recently, and they are a Support Scum type, and often looking to just be happy, and they way they pushed certain things off as TvT looks like they are supporting RingLeader Meowmeow, or trying to get in TownMeowMeow's good grace.

Their reads are also politically setup, and they keep trying to act like i'm going to wiggle my way out of something, almost to too much of an extent, when like, there's really nothing to wiggle out of here. If I don't push a scum today that ends up me being obv town, then we should always just torture me.

I believe scum don't want me tortured, and that those who have been against it, such as Aureal/Marci have scum in it. Not all scum would oppose, there has to be some that would hop on. CSF and Cakes were on torture a long time ago, and Devil slot, while actively town reading me, says that they feel I should still be tortured. That makes sense. Seeing it is likely to go through, scum generally have to hop on somewhere.

With Aureal, theyre town reading me and thus trying to get me not to be tortured, even when there's multiple people now trying to say I'm scum (meow, merlyn).

I feel the fact I'm pushing for my Torture so much does not make sense at all from a scum perspective.

I'll look into merlyn and aureal

[Hu Tao]

We've discussed, combined hydra readslist looks like this.

{Flavor Leaf}
{meowmeow, Hu Tao}
{Aureal, Enchant, camelCasedSnivy}
{SirCakez, Cat Scratch Fever, marcistar}
{Merlyn, RCEnigma}
{meowmeow}

meow, you're Schrödinger's read because we can't agree on you and also because you're a cat.

- Alianna

Why is your read on me so high?

[Hu Tao]

wagons dont really inspire me to want to do more tbh

Okay

VOTE: Marci

[Hu Tao]

My readlist:

Meow, CSF, devil
Marci, RCE
Hu Tao, Aureal
Snivy, FL

Can you explain your read on me? Or is it from who I replaced

I was a little higher on Roden, you just haven't done anything much since replacing in

I've never really played a game like this before that's themed. I've only really played regular mafia games. This is a bit overwhelming tbh.

i think it's fine if you mostly ignore the mech stuff and focus on reads, fwiw

Yeah I'm trying to do that now

[Hu Tao]

I agree that torture seems like the best play. Can someone voting election tell me why?

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao, why are you scum reading Marci?

I didn't like their post I quoted earlier. Looked like they were trying to seem like they were "unbothered town" but it just seemed forced to me

[Hu Tao]

I'm willing to switch if you can convince me why Aureal is scum

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Marcistar

I think this is good. She's skated by largely on tone so far, but I feel like she's just been coming in to argue against people's scumreads of her instead of trying to find scum

I don't even know that I would even say she's doing that much.

VOTE: marcistar

This is...true. But is it really alignment indicative? I mean, as scum she should know refusing to post reads draws suspicion to her, it's such a basic thing.

Marci doesn't even have a vote on anyone. Is it really likely that there are 3 other players in a PT with her somewhere and they're not asking her to at least try and get on a wagon?

The fact that game has slowed to a crawl and there's no one angling for a different lim makes me think that scum is content with this lim.
VOTE: Aureal I would be better with this lim than Marci

Hu Tao, why are you scum reading Marci?

You really seem to want to make sure Marci stays alive, you are really protecting her in all sorts of ways.

-

Good catch

[Hu Tao]

i almost wanna say everyone on torture vote gets ever so slight scum points at an attempt to overturn the torture target

I have no idea what you're trying to say here?

Thought I was the only one

[Hu Tao]

Agreed. Those against torture are more suspect

[Hu Tao]

Maybe I don't understand the mechanics of this game but why is no one dying at night?

[Hu Tao]

So I've been thinking about inquiry. I think the fact that it is there means we are being mislead about something and it's worrying. Not sure what it could be

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: SirCakez
HURT: Recount

Told you guys torture's flavor was bad. I'm guessing Leaf can't participate today.

Wait why can't he?

[Hu Tao]

fuck off I am not getting limmed today

bc you've been so town that it's crazy to even think of you? You didn't even show up for the torture council last night

FML LOL I FORGOT

[Hu Tao]

I am a big mech newbie, as no doubt evidenced by a bunch of things I've already said in this game. But if there was a billboard option of 50K right now that said 'guaranteed scum catch' we'd all pick it and not consider it a waste, right?

I don't think it is a guaranteed scum catch

It's more like this: if we end up voting out town, then we get to use Recount as a parity cop check. If we end up voting scum, then scum can self hammer and mess up the Recount result so the result isn't useful in this scenario -- we would have spent $60k on something not useful.

Counter argument if we do it correctly and it's all town we can have a few people clear correct?

[Hu Tao]

Like, the argument is 'let's not do something that can be messed up by scum OUTING THEMSELVES' but then we'd have an outed scum.

Agreed

[Hu Tao]

Dumb question probably but why do we want 2 people on the recount instead of 1?

Am I misunderstanding recount? I thought it just says if someone on the vote tonight is scum.

[Hu Tao]

Oh do you mean votes?

[Hu Tao]

I think Merlyn is my biggest town read so far. I think they have been pretty genuine so far even in torture meeting.

[Hu Tao]

I think i got poisoned.

I received something saying that ‘i am feeling terribly unwell.”

VOTE: SirCakez
HURT: Recount

Told you guys torture's flavor was bad. I'm guessing Leaf can't participate today.

Am I looking too much into this or is this a TMI situation where she knew something we didn't?

[Hu Tao]

Enchant came into the torture room trying to get Devil voted, by the way, and go against the plan.

Everyone else cooperated with the plan besides Cakez who didn’t show up

I also thought we were doing Recount/Sacrifice today.

Enchant not cooperating with you was a shocker

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Enchantilada

I'm fine with this. I think Aureal might be suspect too based on what I just posted. But I could be wrong on that

[Hu Tao]

Enchant came into the torture room trying to get Devil voted, by the way, and go against the plan.

Everyone else cooperated with the plan besides Cakez who didn’t show up

I also thought we were doing Recount/Sacrifice today.

All true, but Enchant didn't try even one bit to convince others to vote with them- they only posted twice, and one was the vote. What's the scum benefit to sticking out like this? FL said something to the effect in the hood that Enchant could be town but that he didn't think the way they were playing was very town like, and I do kind of get this bc they've been a bit terse, but I think the fact that they pointed out a genuine hiccup in recount that gains scum nothing for pointing out is kind of big.

i didnt like their end of the day yesterday either.

Idc Enchant's alignment for the sacrifice, tbh. if they're town, cool, they give us an extra 20k.

I'm also probably on my deathbed here, so give me that dying wish please.

[Hu Tao]

Maybe I don't understand the mechanics of this game but why is no one dying at night?

No, you're not misunderstanding, we don't know why. The prevailing idea is that they need to get enough money to spend to do it (a billboard of their own basically) but we don't know for sure.

Okay thanks. Thought I was missing something

[Hu Tao]

I'm simultaneously getting shaded for my reads being too bad and my reads being too good. That's just lovely. :/

Don't think this is the reason people are voting you

[Hu Tao]

Get me Devil and Hu Tao in the sacrifice council, and I think that’s a solid count

Are we deciding who to sacrifice?

[Hu Tao]

I have got confirmation that my not doweling well was not from being tortured.

welp. At least this can put to rest any fears that scum interfered with torture (what, paranoid? Me???) unless you don't drop dead by final day.

I’m conf town. It’s probably good if i didn’t drop dead

But yeah, that's my point- you're conf town. Surely you don't expect to make it to the end anyway?

Tbf scum haven't been killing anyone. But its possible they just have poisoning night actions instead of regular night kills. Doesn't explain why there wasn't anything in the previous night

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Enchant

I think this is the best vote for now. I do agree that in the last game I was in with enchant and FL that this is similar to how enchant was acting

[Hu Tao]

If I’m being hard pocketed by Hu Tao, they deserve it tbh.

I’m rooting for you if you’re scum, Hu Tao, that’s how much i town read you this game.

[Hu Tao]

I will say…I have played 2 games with Merlyn recently.

One I was town, they were scum, and they sat back, pocketed me, and were decently passive.

The 2nd, they replaced in mid game, we were scum together, and they were a strong support type, filling in slots where needed

So while i haven’t seen their town game yet, this is feeling a bit different than either of those games.

However, I know I said earlier either Aureal or Merlyn was in the support spot. Idk what I believe in that regard now.

Merlyn seems pretty town to me. Don't think I've played with them before but on tone they seem genuine and I'm pretty good with reading that

[Hu Tao]

i feel the exact same way but for some reason it sounds weird when you say it

[Hu Tao]

There’s a tinfoil world where it’s CSF, Devil, and Cakez, and I’m low key terrified of it right now.

Do you think cakes actually forgot about torture vote? I can see them being scum

[Hu Tao]

Probably not.

We can do 2 + Me.

I feel there’s gonna be some players who try to go against the plan.

I assumed recount was for all those on the majority vote?

[Hu Tao]

confirmation bias

What is?

[Hu Tao]

Yeah it was funny

[Hu Tao]

What?

Okay, so THIS was the plan. Right?

Wait what's the plan for recount tomorrow? How does it get used as a parity check if it only tells us binary y/n if there was a scum on the wagon but not how many?

It's not exactly a parity check.
Basically, no one votes except 2 people on the chosen execution wagon and we let it pass by plurality. If we get a no, they're both confirmed town, and if we get a yes, we know at least one of them is scum.

- Alianna

So two people.

I'm so confused.. so it's the people who are voting on recount? Or are you saying we can eliminate people with only 2 voters

[Hu Tao]

This changes things. We have more planning to do than I originally thought. We should decide who is the vote out and who should be on it.

UNVOTE:

[Hu Tao]

Oh I missed that

[Hu Tao]

In my onion, I think that Enchant, Aureal and Cakes should be the eliminate, sacrifice and recount in any order.

[Hu Tao]

Hmm good point. So we should only do 2 of them?

[Hu Tao]

I would love for someone to tell me why they're town reading snivy. Like, I want someone to go through his iso and find any evidence of scum hunting, or pushing, or anything at all.

I'm not. But I think FL is

[Hu Tao]

I would love for someone to tell me why they're town reading snivy. Like, I want someone to go through his iso and find any evidence of scum hunting, or pushing, or anything at all.

I've been townreading Snivy since he forgot about the plurality vote back on day one. I have a hard time thinking that mafia are going to forget about that, especially with four of them- surely some of their planning accounts for it. I have no idea how to read him otherwise.

On that subject though, I've been feeling more skeptical of Hu Tao's lack of understanding of it, so I looked back through her ISO. I know she replaced in and was told to basically ignore mechanics so she could get into the game, but I'm getting really weird feelings from her engagement with the mechanics, or lack thereof. In one post we get confusion:

Maybe I don't understand the mechanics of this game but why is no one dying at night?

in the next we get an attempt to tackle one of the more enigmatic things we've got:

So I've been thinking about inquiry. I think the fact that it is there means we are being mislead about something and it's worrying. Not sure what it could be

It feels rather dichotomous. But I find it much harder to swallow this:

I am a big mech newbie, as no doubt evidenced by a bunch of things I've already said in this game. But if there was a billboard option of 50K right now that said 'guaranteed scum catch' we'd all pick it and not consider it a waste, right?

I don't think it is a guaranteed scum catch

It's more like this: if we end up voting out town, then we get to use Recount as a parity cop check. If we end up voting scum, then scum can self hammer and mess up the Recount result so the result isn't useful in this scenario -- we would have spent $60k on something not useful.

Counter argument if we do it correctly and it's all town we can have a few people clear correct?

combined with this:

Probably not.

We can do 2 + Me.

I feel there’s gonna be some players who try to go against the plan.

I assumed recount was for all those on the majority vote?

but then after that, we get this:

What?

Okay, so THIS was the plan. Right?

Wait what's the plan for recount tomorrow? How does it get used as a parity check if it only tells us binary y/n if there was a scum on the wagon but not how many?

It's not exactly a parity check.
Basically, no one votes except 2 people on the chosen execution wagon and we let it pass by plurality. If we get a no, they're both confirmed town, and if we get a yes, we know at least one of them is scum.

- Alianna

So two people.

I'm so confused.. so it's the people who are voting on recount? Or are you saying we can eliminate people with only 2 voters

Hu Tao understood that recount was for all voters on the majority wagon, but thought that it needed a full 6 people in order to go through up until that last post? That's not just "a few people clear" as she said in 2222. That'd be clearing six out of seven remaining town - game over for scum. (and one is already clear, at that)

So it feels like the lack of understanding the plurality elimination is fake.

I understand why you think this. Yes, that was my reasoning as best case scenario. Having 5 + fl on a wagon is how I assumed it would work. I've never played a game where you didn't need to reach the hammer to eliminate someone. You can check all my previous games if you'd like

[Hu Tao]

I was playing devil advocate to Cat's disapproval of recount and they were doing worst possible scenario

[Hu Tao]

HURT: Sacrafice

I think this is best for today either way. I think getting rid of potential scum is good

[Hu Tao]

HURT: Assassination

VOTE: No elim

[Hu Tao]

HURT: Injunction

VOTE: No elimination

[Hu Tao]

That was funny at the end. Rushing for projects gg glad I replaced in. Would join again

[Hu Tao]

Kudos to enchant for the end game strategy!