Mini Normal 2306: Game Over


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Post Post #4518 (isolation #0) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:44 am

Post by Aisa »

Ok great, at least now I don't have to tinfoil the cop, though I'm so confused about the balance of this game
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Post Post #4519 (isolation #1) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:46 am

Post by Aisa »

Anyway, hi. I thought I'd read Day 3 to start with, but I came away feeling like I had learned nothing :lol:
Then I read the first 20 pages of the game but also mind empty didn't come away with many ideas
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Post Post #4520 (isolation #2) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:48 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 3916, Dunnstral wrote: I propose a mass claim tomorrow
Why, I love this suggestion. How are we doing claim-wise? Is there a summary of claims somewhere?

Does anyone want to try to summarise the game for me while we are at it? Are there any bits I should read first?
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Post Post #4524 (isolation #3) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:52 am

Post by Aisa »

It occurs to me that someone who is less narcissistic than me would suggest we let the conftown pick the elimination today
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Post Post #4526 (isolation #4) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:58 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4523, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Me and Hu Tao conf!town.
Alisae claim miller.
I claimed informed townie that this game only has 1 cop.
Firebringer claimed bodyguard but hasn’t protected anyone.
Ok fab thank you
I suppose there's no way of knowing whether scum has a roleblocker or the fabled strongman or whatever so for me the fact FB has failed to protect anyone doesn't really say much about his alignment (aside from the fact that with me town + 2 conftown he has a pretty high likelihood of being scum regardless)
In post 4525, NorwegianboyEE wrote: I’d like it if we didn’t default to that because that usually makes the game harder for the conf!town since everyone else isn’t solving and just waiting for our decision to sheep.
I like solving games and efforting so we should get along on that front!
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Post Post #4527 (isolation #5) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:07 am

Post by Aisa »

And we're definitely 100% sure Bob has innos on Norwee and Hu Tao right? I don't think it's very likely at all that he lied but lemme just double check what he said before I take these two slots out of my PoE forever.
In post 3886, bob3141 wrote:
In post 3883, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Are you counterclaiming?
Yep im the cop. I counter claimed straight away by saying flav scum or town gambiting
In post 3887, bob3141 wrote: n1 norw and n2 hu tao
In post 3963, bob3141 wrote: Fire with what you know now out of (below) who do you think are the 3 scum

Flavor Leaf, Dunnstral, Roden, Alisae, Random Nurse

Norw clears me and I clear hu and norw and if you were town you would know that you were town

same question to roden
Ok yeah, there's no way everyone actually misunderstood bob's results. bob had clears on Norwee and Hu Tao. Into the sacred shrine of our conftown overlords you go.

I think the cop dying is a blessing in disguise here, I was going to enter the game on a massive rant about how bob was not at all conftown but this kill just confirms 2 town slots for us for free.
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Post Post #4530 (isolation #6) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:20 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 3958, Firebringer wrote:
In post 3925, Alisae wrote:
In post 3921, Dunnstral wrote: How does Flavor claiming macho make Fire mafia? Can you walk me through that
FL and Fire if they're mafia together, would be claiming macho to make fire's claim look more realistic.
This is something I think FL would realistically do.

I also think Fire's voting history is also just very individually wolfy for him and I think both FL and Fire are just mafia.
Do tell how my voting history is wolfy
In post 3926, Alisae wrote: Fire's play to me looks like he's not really trying to do anything that's unnecessary and he's just letting FL do FL.
It's very similar wolfplay to what I've played with.

I also think his actions don't rly make sense, where as town!fire actions do make sense. Fire bleeds town when he is town.
Thats how i play with FL always. U saying my actions make no sense is bs. Show me one thing you think doesn't make sense.
In post 3929, Alisae wrote: If you bet the game on me and dunnstral being town, this game is over.
lol no
In post 3934, Alisae wrote: you're telling me bob was also allowed to get results?
If you're mafia you're putting a roleblocker ontop of that shit bro if Fire is town like no I refuse to believe that Fire got roleblocked and their bodyguard on sakura failed, and I refuse to believe that mafia just wouldn't block jason instead
i don't think there is a roleblock, i think there is a strongman and I think sakura is a good n1 target for strongman because she is massively townread and a protective will protect her. Which happened here.
You pretending no one would strongman sakura is lots of bullshit
In post 3939, Alisae wrote: I think the game is PROBABLY
{Fire + Roden + FL}
I need to re-read d2 but I imagine Roden must of caused a huge buzz if day played out the way it did. I need to figure out why but I also might just not even be bothered. I can re-read it in F3 or whatever if I'm alive, and if I'm not, I'm sure Dunn can read it for me. I perfectly trust Dunn to make a good decision.
Roden is town
(Hello Firebringer. Looks like you're destined to tunnel my slot once more? :good: )
I thought the tone of this post was interesting. And yes, of course by "interesting" I really mean "scummy". Imo in 1v1s like these, scum tend to use these "no u" arguments more often than town. Like, fundamentally "this is bs" is a pretty empty argument. Imo town is on average more interested in explaining the reasons for their suspicions.
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Post Post #4531 (isolation #7) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:45 am

Post by Aisa »

I felt kind of ambivalent about Roden slot as I was catching up. I guess that's now Titus. Hi Titus.
In post 4102, Roden wrote: Jason was right, the only way this set up makes sense is if scum were informed and the set up isn't what we think it is
I liked the fact that Roden seemed sceptical of the towncore yesterday although I guess it's not hard to see how that's a reaction that could come from scum
In post 4079, Roden wrote: I don't know, I can't think of a team that makes sense.
I also kinda liked his air of uncertainty but I guess there's no special reason that's town-indicative
In post 133, Roden wrote:
In post 81, MikhailTal wrote: JasonWazza voting me only reinforces that they are town, in my mind.
VOTE: Mikhail
I didn't think that was a particularly scummy statement from Mikhail, so I wasn't sure what had caused the vote. Guess I'll never find out!

Yeah I'm aware none of these things are a big deal, but thought I'd do a stream of consciousness kinda thing. And with that goodbye, see you tomorrow
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Post Post #4613 (isolation #8) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:00 pm

Post by Aisa »

Dunn, what’s making you think me town here?
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Post Post #4614 (isolation #9) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:02 pm

Post by Aisa »

In post 4612, Hu Tao wrote: I mean.. There is already at least 1 mafia confirmed in fire and RN right now
I mean… I’ve been away most of the time since RN voted so I wouldn’t so in the RN and fire town world we wouldn’t have been able to quickhammer!
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Post Post #4615 (isolation #10) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:03 pm

Post by Aisa »

Bleh that came out wrong but you know what I mean
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Post Post #4616 (isolation #11) » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:14 pm

Post by Aisa »

Titus, how is catching up on the game going? Like, how much of it have you been able to read?
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Post Post #4621 (isolation #12) » Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:48 am

Post by Aisa »

Dunn is making the most sense to me at the moment; perhaps this will not come as a surprise to anyone reading. I'd still like to take my time and would not say this is a read I am particularly confident in.

Titus's entrance in the game does seem scummy to me. I worry that she's come in presenting such a strong view of the game, with her exact Dunn/Aisa/Nurse solve, and doesn't really hesitate to propose a plan in which she lines up all 3 lims. I'm not sure why she was so keen to pressure Dunn to vote here, not even 24 hours after the game day started. I'm also not sure why she doesn't think her logic should apply to herself. If she's town and scumreads Random Nurse and hasn't voted him yet, wouldn't that, like, prompt a realisation that maybe Dunn has whatever reasons he has to not vote for Nurse right away?

I am also not sure about the part of her VCA where she says that scum wouldn't "buddy" on a wagon and later appears to imply that by "buddying" she only means two scum piling onto a wagon consecutively. If she is town that is a really unfortunately sus series of posts.

Titus, if you're town here I understand it's going to be difficult for you to take me seriously, but. You're coming off as quite certain of your solve for someone who subbed into the game some 3 days ago and I don't really understand how you'd be willing to bet the game on what essentially seems to be VCA + "Nurse wouldn't bus Firebringer" (which is not obvious at all to me). I'd need more context into why you think VCA works so well.
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Post Post #4630 (isolation #13) » Sun Aug 13, 2023 8:09 pm

Post by Aisa »

I think I’ll reread Day 3 to see if I agree with what Dunn said about slots angling to push Alisae today.

Re: Fire I don’t think I feel safe eliminating him just because of claim weirdness and I’m not sure that’ll meaningfully change if he fails to bodyguard a third time. Just want to get that out there. Maybe I’ll be interested in eliminating him for other reasons though
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Post Post #4643 (isolation #14) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:33 am

Post by Aisa »

Bonsoir my friends and enemies
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Post Post #4644 (isolation #15) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:51 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4095, Roden wrote: Also I forgot that Alisae's Miller claim looked really good...wtf
It's little interjections like this one that sometimes scare me into thinking Roden/Titus are town
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Post Post #4646 (isolation #16) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:53 am

Post by Aisa »

Yeah I mean that's the logical conclusion from my POV if Titus is town
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Post Post #4649 (isolation #17) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:06 am

Post by Aisa »

One thought I've held off on for a bit but I guess I'll volunteer now is about scum's positioning today.

Assume Dunn is town. FMPOV that means scumteam is Fire + Titus + Nurse. Fire and Titus have chosen to align themselves really visibly today, which seems like a very risky play to me, because if one of them flips scum the other one immediately comes into question. FB's standing at the start of the day was also pretty poor; it's not like scum think they can immediately openwolf / strongarm a win today because they'll struggle to get the votes to eliminate me or Dunn.

So... (still assuming Dunn is town) what is scum doing today? One option might be that they've decided to bus Random Nurse and kill off Norwee tonight; that tentatively sets up Titus+Firebringer vs me+Dunn, with Hu Tao as kingmaker, which to me seems like a setup with decent odds for scum in this scenario. I'm fully aware I'm getting wayyyy into irresponsible speculation territory but if that's the plan Titus might even have TMIed it a little bit in 2624.

It's also possible that they're just doing some WIFOM play which I also don't hate as an idea.

P-edit: lol you'll like this post
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Post Post #4653 (isolation #18) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:16 am

Post by Aisa »

But yeah uh the main reason I've brought that up is to explain that I'm worried that Titus/FB/Nurse is too obvious given that their positioning today seems kinda dangerous (despite there being cases where it does turn out well for them)

Which may not have been clear from the previous post
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Post Post #4655 (isolation #19) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:17 am

Post by Aisa »

I get it I get it
Alisae would know how to get this game back on its feet
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Post Post #4657 (isolation #20) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:19 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4128, Roden wrote: Y'all if you think I'm scum then vote me out today, I don't want to fight in a potential ELO. I am historically terrible in ELO as town.
Every. Single. Post. I have to fight the urge to townread this dude
Who are you and what is this sorcery
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Post Post #4661 (isolation #21) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:26 am

Post by Aisa »

Yeah I think Dunn is towny too
I suppose the reasoning Fire and Titus have for allying with each other also does seem pretty thin on both sides
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Post Post #4663 (isolation #22) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:29 am

Post by Aisa »

Yeah. In case anyone is wondering I usually like doing a bit more homework before voting (I have read like almost nothing by FB and Nurse) but I'll let people know when I'm ready
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Post Post #4664 (isolation #23) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:29 am

Post by Aisa »

Ooh norwee is there a slot of the three you scumread the most or you would start from to eliminate?
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Post Post #4669 (isolation #24) » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:45 am

Post by Aisa »

Day 3 reread completed
I learned a little. Dunn towny. Roden ???, he did disappear a bit as Dunn said
Homework for tomorrow assigned to me by esteemed teacher NorwegianboyEE is to research Firebringer's ISO

Also, massclaim. I think it would be fun, I have no idea if it's +EV. But the downside is low. What's the worst case, we out some protective?
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Post Post #4687 (isolation #25) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:25 am

Post by Aisa »

Psst do you wanna yolo vote Titus
Whichever alignment she is it will certainly help end the game

I can also live narrate my read of Firebreather's ISO
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Post Post #4688 (isolation #26) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:28 am

Post by Aisa »

I fully expect Olympic Torch Carrier's ISO to be 400 posts. Let's see if my prediction holds...

Mmm 320 posts? Yummy
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Post Post #4689 (isolation #27) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:33 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 283, Firebringer wrote: I want to policy elim Sakura Hana
I'm on isolation #34 and we're still pretty firmly in the existing and vibing and memeing stage of the game
In post 246, Firebringer wrote:
In post 202, Flavor Leaf wrote: Firebringer

osuka

Roden
Mikailtal
Norwegianboy
Sakura Hana
Alisae
Hu Tao

Random Nurse
JasonWazza
Dunnstral

Takutai
im definitely not town.
stop being bad flavor leaf
In post 247, Firebringer wrote:
In post 239, Alisae wrote: if you claim miller right now you will get a free pass for the rest of the game
im mafia miller
He has however already claimed scum at least twice up to this point
NAI.
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Post Post #4690 (isolation #28) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:00 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 291, Firebringer wrote: I dismiss many players perspectives all the time.
Here we see a wild growlithe in his natural environment, showing off his gregarious nature
(Seems like a good time for a reminder that this is all tongue in cheek. I too dismiss many player's perspective all the time)
(At this point the game has still barely existed for 24 hours)
In post 376, Firebringer wrote: page 15 hero solve time:
here is the scum team folks, date and time stamp and frame it cause I got the game solved
Alisae - pokemon master
Hua Tau - pokemon novice trainer
JasonWazza - professor oak

Ngl, not too happy about my nicknames for scum team players. Might rethink that one later
/in to find out which pokémon NPC I am

I can't tell if this is a serious post or not
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Post Post #4691 (isolation #29) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:00 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4690, Aisa wrote: many player's perspective
WHY
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Post Post #4692 (isolation #30) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:12 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 404, Firebringer wrote: VOTE: Dunnstral
ill sheep my scumbuddy here
I looked at the post above this one hoping that he trueclaimed his scumbuddy.
Unfortunately he was sheeping my slot. No luck this time! But I will be disappointed if I do not see BF trueclaiming his partner by the end of this ISO.
In post 412, Firebringer wrote: ngl i kind of want revenge on dunn for team mafia.
i could have had him on day 1 and then i got tripped up on how he responded to me
Wouldn't this POV make a lot of sense if the alignments were reversed this time?

Yeah this live narration format isn't great for actual scumhunting, I can feel myself basically just conf biasing with every post I write

We're STILL barely 24 hours after the game started though so maybe it gets juicier later on
For now I haven't found anything that I think scum FB couldn't fake
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Post Post #4693 (isolation #31) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:38 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 415, Firebringer wrote: don't actually think a pressure wagon on dunn to produce reads is all that useful from my experience. I think im better at reading him when i just see his natural posting and examine it.

I say that while having lost him in tm tho. So grains of salt
In post 677, Firebringer wrote: not sure why we moved off dunnstral if the point was to get him to solving when he came in.

got nothing out of what he has posted so far
Hmm. He doesn't really seem to know what he wants. These posts were less than 24 hours apart. Objectively probably doesn't mean much but remember, I'm not being objective here, I'm confbiasing, so obviously this is irrefutable proof that FB is scum!!

Ok skipping ahead a bit so I don't flood the thread with fluff, FB then continues to vote for Dunn on Day 1, apparently together with other players, to pressure Dunn. He says he doesn't have a lot of time to play the game (rip). Doesn't really offer much int he way of explanation for his reads, except saying that he townleans Norwee/Alisae (my slot)/Sakura and he's fine putting pressure on a bunch of to her slots. Cool ok well let's keep reading
In post 1377, Firebringer wrote:
In post 1375, Sakura Hana wrote: @Firepup: who is scum.
In Dunnstral/Jason/Tak/Nurse/Hu Tao

I lean more on Dunnstral/Jason right now as top contenders
It would be lovely to know why
In post 1545, Firebringer wrote:
In post 1395, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1390, Firebringer wrote: why is dunnstral a bad push?
Why am I a
good
push?
your empty posting. Where r u reads
Oh wonderful! We do get to find out why.
The rest of his ISO so far is also like this, I'm on isolation 150 and sometimes he does explain his reads. Briefly. In pretty generic terms
"Why do you think I'm town?" "Oh, your progression makes sense"
In post 2166, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2165, Random Nurse wrote: Is it just me, or does Roden's vote seem rather opportunistic?
and mine isn't?
In post 2171, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2170, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 2166, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2165, Random Nurse wrote: Is it just me, or does Roden's vote seem rather opportunistic?
and mine isn't?
It does seem rather opportunistic too, tbh.
Ohh good. Wouldn't want roden to outshine me.
Did u check out my previous scum game yet
Ok, look: I'm trying veeeerry hard to be objective here. Incredibly hard.

And then,
this
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interaction
how am I supposed to get over these three slots being the exact team solve now?
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Post Post #4694 (isolation #32) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:50 am

Post by Aisa »

Ok I'm gonna call it a night now. I'll probably finish reading FB's ISO tomorrow. And because I've been very mean to him over the past few posts, I'm gonna end by saying FB, get well soon!
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Post Post #4721 (isolation #33) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:35 pm

Post by Aisa »

In post 4702, Firebringer wrote: Role claims:
Firebringer BG (N1 Sakura, N2 Roden, N3 Bob)
Titus - VT
Aisa - Miller
Nurse - ???
Norwee - Informed Townie
Hu Tao - don't care

Doubt Nurse claims anything outside of VT.
@Nurse
- if you see this please claim!
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Post Post #4722 (isolation #34) » Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:44 pm

Post by Aisa »

In post 4696, Firebringer wrote: I don't find u mean at all Aisa.
Just a scum bunny is all.

If i cared enough i would counter ur arguments but i don't.
if u think im scum with Nurse, why aren't u voting nurse?
Saves me from having to counter your counter arguments tbh :lol:

Can't in good conscience vote nurse when I've only read like 10 posts by the guy! Need to brush up on his posting a little first, then maybe
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Post Post #4731 (isolation #35) » Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:32 am

Post by Aisa »

I am manifesting a red flip
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Post Post #4742 (isolation #36) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:25 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4738, NorwegianboyEE wrote: If we have 2 conf!town and nobody died then maybe scum is afraid of FB dying instead of one of me/Hu Tao?
An alternative explanation could be that scum is afraid of how it would look for FB to -not- die at night!

Grumble grumble NKs are all WIFOM anyway
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Post Post #4743 (isolation #37) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:26 am

Post by Aisa »

Tonight (in Aisa time) I shall review part 2 of Firebringer’s ISO
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Post Post #4759 (isolation #38) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:06 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4750, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Actually u know that. Let's just end this game.
It's Dunn/Aisa. Has to be. The no kill spews Fire as town.

VOTE: Aisa
Aaaah backstabbed :’D
In post 4753, Firebringer wrote: So scum no kill to ensure i wouldn't die
i guarded norwee last night
thought i could get scum to think i wouldn't target norwee by saying he wasn't worthy of protection but then they just go no kill.

Looks like they didn't want to take a 50/50.

Anyways Nurse flip all but confirms Aisa isn't miller. 100% scum were informed of amount of millers and tried to hide in them.

VOTE: Aisa
Help! HEELPP! There is a little vulture circling me, he wants me, I can feel it in my rabbit bones, he’s getting closer now, oh no, I think he’s swooping in!! AAAAa-

Serious posting in a bit
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Post Post #4761 (isolation #39) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:32 am

Post by Aisa »

@mods:
how many votes are required to end the day with no elimination?
What happens if there are several no eliminations and no kills in a row?
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Post Post #4762 (isolation #40) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:57 am

Post by Aisa »

Ok, it's always tricky to know what to say to someone who's voting you.

It seems like one of the reasons you're voting me, Norwee, is because of the no kill. I'm not sure how that spews me or anyone scum.

Let's consider a world in which Fire and Titus are scum. What do you think is better for them - no killing, or killing? If they kill you or Hu Tao, maybe the credibility of FB's claim is called into question. If they no kill, the credibility of FB's claim is not called into question. I guess the downside of leaving you alive is that you seemed more aligned with me and Dunn yesterday. But importantly, killing you or Hu Tao is not
obviously
the right choice for an FB+Titus team. It immediately puts the spotlight on FB. It results in nothing near a guaranteed victory for them.

From a different perspective - I've seen different scum players play ELOs differently and probably so have you. Some kill the "obvious" townie - the one who's had a correct solve for 4 game days. Some make the "WIFOM" kill: they leave their worst enemy alive and then try to argue that then never would have left X alive etc etc. This is why earlier I said that I think NKA is wifom. I've seen both sides of the coin play out, so I don't think the night kill / lack of one is a reliable indicator in situations like these.
In post 4757, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Actually i thought ur interaction with me earlier when i tried to bait you was genuine so i kinda started believing you were town from that point on.
I'm also not sure / don't remember what you're referring to, but if you point it out I can try to address this too!
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Post Post #4765 (isolation #41) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:16 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4763, NorwegianboyEE wrote: I didn't say the no kill spewed you scum, i said it spewed Fire town.
You also said the words "if fire is town it can ONLY be Aisa and Dunn scum", and you're currently voting me. If you're not sure I'm scum, then you're risking a quickhammer.
In post 4764, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Also do you think Dunn is town?
That is where I'm leaning. I'm not sure but I'm not certainly gonna start arguing for you to vote him instead because I'm not sure that would help haha
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Post Post #4768 (isolation #42) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:31 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4753, Firebringer wrote: So scum no kill to ensure i wouldn't die
i guarded norwee last night
thought i could get scum to think i wouldn't target norwee by saying he wasn't worthy of protection but then they just go no kill.

Looks like they didn't want to take a 50/50.

Anyways Nurse flip all but confirms Aisa isn't miller. 100% scum were informed of amount of millers and tried to hide in them.

VOTE: Aisa
I disagree with your reasoning about the Nurse flip (lol).

1. We do not know what scum were informed of. I guess the fact they were informed of the Millers is credible, but still, uncertainty n all that. I remember that a very wise you once said to me and others to not solve games from mechanics. At least I think that was you. Oh how the tables have turned :D

2. More importantly... the fact scum were informed of the presence of millers does not in any way prove that someone in the scumteam must have fakeclaimed miller.

I, uh, may be sliightly leaning towards thinking that this is just the excuse FB came up with to be able to hop on my wagon

P-edit: unlikely ally :heart_eyes:
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Post Post #4783 (isolation #43) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:15 pm

Post by Aisa »

In post 4773, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4765, Aisa wrote: You also said the words "if fire is town it can ONLY be Aisa and Dunn scum", and you're currently voting me. If you're not sure I'm scum, then you're risking a quickhammer.
There is no risk of a quickhammer
Norwee and you were voting me, so if the scumteam were exactly Titus / Dunn there would have been a risk.
In post 4775, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4768, Aisa wrote: I, uh, may be sliightly leaning towards thinking that this is just the excuse FB came up with to be able to hop on my wagon
Ive been scumreading your slot for days lol
In post 4777, Firebringer wrote: the only other possible team here if aisa is town is Titus/Dunnstral and that means Titus is bussing right now, after no killing.
In post 4778, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4768, Aisa wrote: 1. We do not know what scum were informed of. I guess the fact they were informed of the Millers is credible, but still, uncertainty n all that. I remember that a very wise you once said to me and others to not solve games from mechanics. At least I think that was you. Oh how the tables have turned

2. More importantly... the fact scum were informed of the presence of millers does not in any way prove that someone in the scumteam must have fakeclaimed miller.
Both of these are true. I am not using mech to solve you aisa and you know that.
I am highlighting that the mech side bolsters my argument.

You might not be informed of millers, but I def don't believe alisae/ur claim of miller.
Yeah this is somewhat fair, in the world where you are town I'm sure you have other reasons to be suspicious! I was trying to explain that the timing of your vote, plus the reasoning you gave, felt like you were just trying to build up momentum on my slot.
In post 4776, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4762, Aisa wrote: Let's consider a world in which Fire and Titus are scum. What do you think is better for them - no killing, or killing? If they kill you or Hu Tao, maybe the credibility of FB's claim is called into question. If they no kill, the credibility of FB's claim is not called into question. I guess the downside of leaving you alive is that you seemed more aligned with me and Dunn yesterday. But importantly, killing you or Hu Tao is not obviously the right choice for an FB+Titus team. It immediately puts the spotlight on FB. It results in nothing near a guaranteed victory for them.
Okay uno reverse time:
Spotlight has been on me for days due to my failing BGs. Yet you argue that scum me is worried about a spotlight so i go for no kill. Genius move

Meanwhile we have the easy to show cycle of you and alisae both been pushing me for days and a clear setup to elim me.Alisae had been saying for DAYS that if i was still alive that i should get elimmed or if i failed I get elimmed.

So if I succeeded last night then you are left in an awkward position and then have to buss your teammate dunnstral while having to make argument that its also Titus.
Maybe you're more worried about the accumulation of evidence against you now, and also feeling the squeeze from the PoE.

Your points about the motivation hypothetical scum!me would have to no kill are fair. Norwee said that no killing spewed you town and I wanted to oppose that by explaining that no killing is a viable option for you, too. But I acknowledge I could have no killed and it would have made sense.
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Post Post #4784 (isolation #44) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:24 pm

Post by Aisa »

In post 4781, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Actually it’s becoming obvious that Fire and Aisa aren’t teamed so that makes Dunnstral the natural choice.
We can solve between Fire/Aisa tommorow after another scum is down.

VOTE: Dunnstral
Just as I was breathing a sigh of relief :lol:
Why not Titus?
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Post Post #4788 (isolation #45) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:44 pm

Post by Aisa »

In post 4785, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Do i look like the type of person that has a reasonable explanation for my actions?
In post 4786, NorwegianboyEE wrote: I’m having so much fun~
Great. Great! Everything is great (:
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Post Post #4792 (isolation #46) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:50 pm

Post by Aisa »

In post 4787, Titus wrote: From your perspective, you should have doubts on me being scum. I'm clearly pushing the scumread I am more confident in. In a Titus/Dunn or Titus/Fire world, there's no point in pulling NorwegianboyEE off of you.
Hmm
I will think about this in my sleep
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Post Post #4807 (isolation #47) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:35 pm

Post by Aisa »

Not hammering fwiw
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Post Post #4809 (isolation #48) » Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:37 pm

Post by Aisa »

Oh my bad I forgot Titus was voting there
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Post Post #4819 (isolation #49) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:15 am

Post by Aisa »

Hi. Thanks for the carry yesterday. Haven't reread anything yet but planning to today and then hopefully I'll have things to say
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Post Post #4820 (isolation #50) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:18 am

Post by Aisa »

Me submitting fast night requests to RR knowing full well that I won't want to do anything in the new day until I read the game:
Spoiler:
Image
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Post Post #4823 (isolation #51) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:18 am

Post by Aisa »

Norwee, you mean you want me to towncase myself? Eugh, let's try.

My scumgame is not as good as you're giving it credit for. I think that as town stimes I get scumread for being indecisive, not really committing to pushes, etc. that's actually something I do much more as town than as scum. As town I care a lot about not getting too fixated on one solve, not making any unwarranted assumptions. I'm hesitant to jump on wagons.

As scum I try to reproduce this superficially, but fundamentally I don't care. I'm a lot less patient; if I see a wagon heating up near the end of a day, usually my instinct is "how can I jump on this wagon?" or "how can I egg this on?". I'm less charitable. Basically this is the Balancing Possibilities vs Probabilities thing, and I feel like I'm really bad at avoiding this tell as scum. One slightly extreme example of this is this post; I really needed Drew eliminated so I basically just threw any accusation I could think of at him.

fireisredsir recently said that when I'm scum I have an agenda and it's visible, and I think this is a pretty fair description.

Admittedly it's a little harder to see that I don't have an agenda in this game because I replaced into an ELO.

There probably are other differences between my town and scum game which are harder to describe, like there probably are some tonal differences if you look for them?

For legal reasons: of course I'm not trying to establish a trust tell, I fully intend to try to subvert these aspects of my meta in the future etc
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Post Post #4824 (isolation #52) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:27 am

Post by Aisa »

In my last game with Firebringer I thought "haha, he's tunnelling me for such absurd reasons that he must be scum"
He was town (sorry FB </3)

Yesterday I thought the following about FB: "haha, he's tunnelling me for such absurd reasons that he must be scum"
...
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Post Post #4827 (isolation #53) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:48 am

Post by Aisa »

I am not saying he's town. More that without the previous experience I would be scumreading him for his push on me and now I'm ??? about his push.

I explained why I felt like he was accusing me unfairly yesterday:
Spoiler:
In post 4768, Aisa wrote:
In post 4753, Firebringer wrote: So scum no kill to ensure i wouldn't die
i guarded norwee last night
thought i could get scum to think i wouldn't target norwee by saying he wasn't worthy of protection but then they just go no kill.

Looks like they didn't want to take a 50/50.

Anyways Nurse flip all but confirms Aisa isn't miller. 100% scum were informed of amount of millers and tried to hide in them.

VOTE: Aisa
I disagree with your reasoning about the Nurse flip (lol).

1. We do not know what scum were informed of. I guess the fact they were informed of the Millers is credible, but still, uncertainty n all that. I remember that a very wise you once said to me and others to not solve games from mechanics. At least I think that was you. Oh how the tables have turned :D

2. More importantly... the fact scum were informed of the presence of millers does not in any way prove that someone in the scumteam must have fakeclaimed miller.

I, uh, may be sliightly leaning towards thinking that this is just the excuse FB came up with to be able to hop on my wagon

P-edit: unlikely ally :heart_eyes:


His reaction to my post was to double down. "No actually I meant XYZ and you're still scum." This reaction also felt scummy to me, I felt like I was getting out-talked and cornered without having dome anything wrong :D

Then I remembered that he also specifically doubled down on his scumread on me in the other game too. I said something about how his read was wrong and his reaction was "I don't believe you react this way as town, I scumread you so much Aisa" etc
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Post Post #4828 (isolation #54) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:54 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4644, Aisa wrote:
In post 4095, Roden wrote: Also I forgot that Alisae's Miller claim looked really good...wtf
It's little interjections like this one that sometimes scare me into thinking Roden/Titus are town
In post 4657, Aisa wrote:
In post 4128, Roden wrote: Y'all if you think I'm scum then vote me out today, I don't want to fight in a potential ELO. I am historically terrible in ELO as town.
Every. Single. Post. I have to fight the urge to townread this dude
Who are you and what is this sorcery
What if... there was a reason for these all these unexplained :sparkles: feels :sparkles:

Still can't get over Dunn fooling me smh
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Post Post #4829 (isolation #55) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:02 am

Post by Aisa »

Not even a third through FB / Roden joint ISO but this suddenly isn't feeling like a hard decision :grimacing:
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Post Post #4830 (isolation #56) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:05 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 1275, Roden wrote: Scum could just be frozen

Possibly hoping we get bored and move back to voting a flailing townie that everyone can gasp at while clutching their pearls
In post 1283, Roden wrote: Alisae please vote Dunn

I'll fake a green check on you tomorrow in return if you'd like
In post 1291, Roden wrote: Do you town read Dunn
Though hmm, did Roden have a good read on Dunn or did he TMI this?
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Post Post #4831 (isolation #57) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:06 am

Post by Aisa »

Do I become a better scumhunter if I read the other 367 posts of the joint ISO? hmm...
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Post Post #4832 (isolation #58) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:09 am

Post by Aisa »

It would be an interesting experiment to stop here and YOLO it. Roden just looks miiiles townier than FB to me from the first 200 posts.
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Post Post #4833 (isolation #59) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:19 am

Post by Aisa »

Well... I suppose I'm not truly yoloing it unless I cast the vote!
VOTE: firebringer

Sorry if this is wrong and someone then comes along and hammers it!
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Post Post #4834 (isolation #60) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:22 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4815, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Nobody vote yet please. Let’s think about this.
I just remembered this existed!! I'm sorry, I know this looks super silly but I will do as you want!
UNVOTE:
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Post Post #4841 (isolation #61) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:45 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4836, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4833, Aisa wrote: Sorry if this is wrong and someone then comes along and hammers it!
theres no way someone can yolo hammer it. don't play dumb aisa
its 3 to elim
Yeah that's not what I meant
Sometimes my words get all tangled up but I meant: sorry if people come along and vote it and then it eventually gets hammered
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Post Post #4845 (isolation #62) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:48 am

Post by Aisa »

@fire

Amazing, of course. Won't make me change my read on you though!

Why don't you put another vote on Titus so we can test me right now
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Post Post #4849 (isolation #63) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:58 am

Post by Aisa »

Fire, I have a fantastic idea. Why don't we hammer test norwee?
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Post Post #4851 (isolation #64) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:00 am

Post by Aisa »

Ah. I still have much to learn!
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Post Post #4854 (isolation #65) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:05 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4852, Firebringer wrote: But you on the other hand, ur not as troll as me.
How could you tell... I thought I was keeping up an effective disguise
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Post Post #4856 (isolation #66) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:13 am

Post by Aisa »

You reminded me of how once as a baby bunny a couple years ago I was talking to my friend and I told him "I don't want to do this thing because I wouldn't want anyone thinking I'm childish or vapid or anything!!"
His response was "lol TRUST ME there is no risk of this everyone already thinks you're super intense"

I haven't changed one bit :DD
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Post Post #4858 (isolation #67) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:16 am

Post by Aisa »

Yes, I am not certain it's FB. Let's say I think it's 70% FB
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Post Post #4859 (isolation #68) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:22 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4787, Titus wrote:
In post 4784, Aisa wrote:
In post 4781, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Actually it’s becoming obvious that Fire and Aisa aren’t teamed so that makes Dunnstral the natural choice.
We can solve between Fire/Aisa tommorow after another scum is down.

VOTE: Dunnstral
Just as I was breathing a sigh of relief :lol:
Why not Titus?
From your perspective, you should have doubts on me being scum. I'm clearly pushing the scumread I am more confident in. In a Titus/Dunn or Titus/Fire world, there's no point in pulling NorwegianboyEE off of you.
I thought this was one -Titus- post that was towny. I guess I think she's right that she didn't need to pull you off me, seems like better EV to just stay.

Also just the vibe of it, I don't know why. Maybe the fact she bothered to reach out at all, maybe because it's just kind of a weird flex to make to me as scum?

Or maybe she knows exactly how to tug at my heartstrings
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Post Post #4876 (isolation #69) » Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:13 pm

Post by Aisa »

Ooh secrets and intrigue!
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Post Post #4885 (isolation #70) » Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:42 am

Post by Aisa »

Awesome VOTE: firebringer
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Post Post #4899 (isolation #71) » Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:31 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4890, Firebringer wrote: i am tempted to self hammer to prove u wrong but i want to give Titus the game winning hammer
These posts always give me the panic even though I know there is a possible scum motivation for them.

Idk this is weird I usually agonise over these choices a lot more so I'm sitting here just... wondering if I should be worrying harder or continuing with the flow
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Post Post #4901 (isolation #72) » Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:36 am

Post by Aisa »

Thank you commander NorwegianboyEE
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Post Post #4905 (isolation #73) » Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:11 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 4899, Aisa wrote:
In post 4890, Firebringer wrote: i am tempted to self hammer to prove u wrong but i want to give Titus the game winning hammer
These posts always give me the panic even though I know there is a possible scum motivation for them.

Idk this is weird I usually agonise over these choices a lot more so I'm sitting here just... wondering if I should be worrying harder or continuing with the flow
Btw I did not notice you were claiming Backup Cop at the time of this post :lol: I just saw an invitation to vote for Firebringer and got excited!
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Post Post #4925 (isolation #74) » Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:36 pm

Post by Aisa »

Sweett
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Post Post #4941 (isolation #75) » Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:43 am

Post by Aisa »

GG, thanks mods for modding, players for playing.

The setup was interesting. In this run, it did feel like scum's fate was sealed by not claiming miller and not catching the cops in time.
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Post Post #4942 (isolation #76) » Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:44 am

Post by Aisa »

Norwee being Backup Cop explains some of his flip flopping, which was kinda driving me crazy :lol:
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Post Post #4966 (isolation #77) » Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:53 am

Post by Aisa »

Humph. I'll just have to get back at you for it at some point~

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