Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:12 am

Post by Adel »

Korts wrote:
Adel wrote:Korts: why did you focus on and vote for Ecto instead of Tarball at this point?
Because it was Ecto who seemed to be deflecting, and not Tarballs.
but logically your expressed reasons for being suspicious of Ecto only apply if Tarballs were scum. So it seemed odd to me that you would vote for Ecto rather than Tarballs.
Adel wrote:Which posts show that MacavityLock was under "considerable pressure" during day 1?
I don't have the time to go back and find the specific posts, but I expressed solid suspicion on Macavity, and I remember Ecto doing so, too. At the time I posted the "considerable pressure" post, I also believed that ThAdmiral had fingered him as a suspect, too (apparently not, though). Three people is considerable pressure, no?
Please find, quote, and post your evidence... when you can find the time.
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:35 am

Post by Adel »

darkdude wrote:Adel, I have no idea how to use your chart...
it shows all voting activity for day 1. All of the information presented in the chart is totally objective and verifiable.

Image

I'll explain the top two thirds first:

the first column is the post number for each row. Only posts where players voted and some of the posts where the mod listed a vote count are listed.

the next twelve columns are each headed by player names. each column under each player's name shows who they were voting for at each moment in the game, as well as how many votes the person they were voting for had at the time.

posts where there was a vote count (52, 130, 152, 209, 232) show how many votes each person had on them according to that votecount.

the first column after the player names is "wagon increase" -- which show which wagon increased during each post. Read "Rage 1->2" as "the wagon on rage increased from one vote to two votes at this post".

The next column, "wagon decrease" shows which wagon decreased in strength due to the vote cast in that row.

the last column, "page number" is the page number the post occurred on.

as an example, just looking at the tenth row provides the following information:
  • 1. a vote was placed at post 27
    2. the person voted for was Rage, and McL voted for him
    3. McL's vote for Rage increased the Rage wagon from one vote to two votes
    4. McL's vote for Rage took his vote off of BOW, which decreased the size of BOW's wagon from three votes to two votes.
    5. At post 27 the votecount would be: BOW(2) Rage(2) and Ecto(1)
    6. Chuck and Rage were voting for BOW at post 27
    7. darkdude and McL were both voting for Rage as of post 27
    8. Korts was voting for Ecto at post 27
looking at the next row, you can see that Korts followed by placing his vote for Rage at post 28.
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:45 pm

Post by Adel »

the bottom third:

the first row below the final votecount row is also the first row that lacks a post number. It shows how many votes each player coast during day 1. Korts cast the most votes (5) and Puta Puta cast the fewest votes (O). At the far right of that row is the cell titles "# of players willing to vote for". That cell is the header for the information below it -- which shows how many players voted for each player during the day. Puta Puta had 7 players willing to vote for him, Rage had 5, BOW had 4, ect.

the information below the total number of votes each player cast shows who they voted for, and how many times. Using Korts as the example again, it shows that he voted for Ecto twice, Puta twice, and Rage once.

~~~


Does all of that explain my chart well enough for the rest of you to be able to use it? I usually have it in front of me when I am rereading the game. It helps me catch stuff that I would totally miss otherwise... for instance when I was first reading the game I thought the unvote at post 185 took a vote off of Puta Puta.
gorckat in 185 wrote:
unvote


On one hand I'd rather see Puta replaced than go down a man. On the other, replacements in these cases typically get a free ride.
can you see how I made that mistake? The chart helps me keep shit like that straight really easily.
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:03 pm

Post by darkdude »

Ah, I see now! It's very useful indeed! Now I wish we also have a chart up to date so far with Day 2. :-P
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:20 pm

Post by Adel »

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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:03 pm

Post by Adel »

Image

beyond not posting, I think this is a great illustration of how gorckat/IH have clearly lurked through this game.

The other possible lurkers are: ThAdmiral and Tarballs, and tubby and chuck after them.

A question for our lurkers (ThAdmiral,Tarballs, tubby, and IH):

Who do you think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

I unvoted darkdude in 336,

also in the first one, in the wagon decrease column, bow goes from 3-2, then to 2-3, and then to 1-0. i.e. up not down in the middle one.

I'm sure there are a few more minor errors, but those are the one's that popped out at me when I glanced at it.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:11 pm

Post by Adel »

thanks for pointing those out. I really advise people to print them out (as large as possible and practical) and take notes (and correct errors!) on them.

I just noticed that in 380, under the Day 1 area, I moved the vote for McL from Rage's column to my column, throwing off the "Day 1 totals" as well as the "Totals to date".
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:26 pm

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adel wrote:Who do you think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
um really not sure at this point


adel wrote:Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?
i really don't think vote hopping or the amount of different votes they have cast is a scum tell persay.

I think its more about timing and when the cast them and why, if lets say they just post a bs reason to vote then jumped on the next available wagon for no reason that to me would be scummy. but if your changing your vote to add pressure or to show agreement for another case, than thats more town,,

I have not been trying to lurk, what i am trying to do is sit back a lil and take a better look at what is being posted and why. more to the point i am trying to play this game with more logic rather than emotion wich i have a tendency to do
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:30 pm

Post by Adel »

that was an almost perfect non-answer. Would you mind trying again?
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:25 pm

Post by tubby216 »

ok vote hopping by its self is not scummy it with in the manner in wich they vote that to me makes it scummy.

is that more clear ?
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:31 pm

Post by Adel »

mmm.. you've allready identified that
I think its more about timing and when the cast them and why, if lets say they just post a bs reason to vote then jumped on the next available wagon for no reason that to me would be scummy. but if your changing your vote to add pressure or to show agreement for another case, than thats more town
you just haven't applied that criteria to the behavior of Korts and dark dude in this game.

Look at the timing of their votes, when they cast them, and why... has either player shown a pattern of hopping onto wagons without sincere & (in your view) reasons for joining those wagon?

Which votes in particular lead you to think that one player is more or less scummy than the other? .. and why?
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:35 pm

Post by tubby216 »

oh ok now i understand how that was a non answer. I will re-read and repost with quotes eta tomorrow i don't have time for it tonite.
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:42 pm

Post by Adel »

EBWOP:A question for our lurkers (ThAdmiral,Tarballs, tubby,
chuck
and IH):

Who do you think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:46 pm

Post by darkdude »

EBWOP
Sorry, what does that stand for?
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:50 pm

Post by Adel »

edit by way of post -- I left chuck out of the original list of lurkers I wanted an answer from, so the EBWOP corrected that omission.

Has anyone noticed that he hasn't posted since I replaced in?
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:03 am

Post by TDC »

Vote CountIH (3): Adel, darkdude, tubby216
Adel (2): Rage, chuckrock
Darkdude (2): Ectomancer, Korts

Not voting (3): IH, Lionheart, ThAdmiral

Searching replacement for IH.
Prodding chuckrock and Lionheart.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:58 am

Post by ThAdmiral »

Adel wrote:EBWOP:A question for our lurkers (ThAdmiral,Tarballs, tubby,
chuck
and IH):

Who do you think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?
I don't see vote hopping as a scum tell. Some people tend to only vote for one person a day while others tend to throw their votes around. Others still may just not be sure of things and will change their mind a few times.

However, seeing as you will call the above a non-answer, I would have to say that while korts has been hopping around more (on a purely numerical basis) I would say darkdude has been doing it in a more potentially suspicious way.

I believe you can see the train of logic in kort's votes more. Day one he started with a random on ecto (so that doesn't really count) then a vote on rage for the asking bow to claim thing. After that he didn't really vote-hop as much as flip between puta and ecto, two people he had expressed suspicion of and had linked as scum partners. On day two he started with a vote on tarballs because, assumedly, he always likes to have a vote on
somebody
. After that it took quite a bit of convincing on ecto's behalf to get him to change his vote to darkdude.

Darkdude, however, seems to have been a little more opportunistic with his votes, getting on wagon favorites bow, rage and puta day one (with the lurker vote of tubby thrown in). Day two I believe he has just voted IH. Why? "Ugh..".


On a different topic: when you say "lurkers", do you mean in the traditional sense, or some sort of "vote-lurker", i.e. someone who hasn't voted for many different people?
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:10 am

Post by IH »

Hi, spreadsheets are fun.

Epic depression subsiding, finals kicking in...

jhonjohnjohn

In other words, sorry, I'll catch up soon, but I like how I've got a wagon formed on me now. Sweet!
Untrod Tripod (7:27:18 PM): you enjoy whoring
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:11 am

Post by IH »

Also, anyone who's played with me in the past year knows that until I get caught up this is normal for me.
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:26 am

Post by Adel »

IH wrote:Also, anyone who's played with me in the past year knows that until I get caught up this is normal for me.
If you are saying that it is normal for you to get replaced, I agree.
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:13 pm

Post by darkdude »

I hope the other lurkers on Adels list responds soon.
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:02 pm

Post by Korts »

Right, I have no idea how to help this game along at this moment.

Adel, I will have the time to go back for those posts the weekend earliest.

Adel:

Who do
you
think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?
scumchat never die
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:00 pm

Post by Adel »

Korts wrote:Right, I have no idea how to help this game along at this moment.

Adel, I will have the time to go back for those posts the weekend earliest.

Adel:

Who do
you
think has been vote hopping more: Korts or Darkdude?
Why do you or don't you count that as a scum tell against either of them?
how about helping to get the lurkers to answer first?
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:02 pm

Post by Rage »

How does one help a lurker?
I'm a rageaholic! I just can't live without rageahol!

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