Scumleague Fantasy Football 2023 (Game Over)

[Kcdaspot]

dis full? if not /imma suck

[D3f3nd3r]

dis full? if not /imma suck

Not at all, welcome aboard. We won’t actually “fill” at any point, happy to keep taking people until we start actually putting leagues together (which will probably be some time early next month).

Planning to get the rules poll out tonight, sorry for repeatedly delaying this. Unless anyone seconds any of PF’s suggested rule changes they won’t be added to the poll, besides the one about seeding for division winners which I had already meant to ask about.

I currently have on the poll that question, various questions about playoff sizes and pro/rel schemes for L2 or L3 having fewer than 12 teams, and something about accepting mutual requests for division placement since I know there was some conflict about that in past years where Nero accepted those requests.

[D3f3nd3r]

RULES POLL IS HERE!

I will leave this open and leave sign-ups for the league open until the evening of Thursday 8/10. At that point I'll tally everything up, get everyone divided into their leagues, and start coordinating the process of figuring out a draft time for each league (which will hopefully be within two weeks of the start of the season on 9/7).

[PokerFace]

Personally i think that division winners should all make the playoffs. Having them NOT be gauranteed a top seed is also fine in my book. Kinda helps balance a situation where a team wins a weak division. My only beef with the current playoff situation was with the lack of reseeding during the playoffs. You should always play to win the game. Enforcing reseeding would encourage that. When you do not enforce reseeding their is the temptation to lose on purpose to allow for different people to get different seeds and ultimatly allow yourself to get an advantage with an easier bracket that you earned by losing. I would rather you got an easier path by winning. Also losing certain matches purposely can effect the promotion and regulation system. Changing who gets in and out of each league and when. This is all why i want reseeding during. If I can not get others to see that and second then i guess it is what it is, but i fear someone will purposefully try to take advantage which is worse than how i played to win and lucked into what I considered to be an easy path last year

[PokerFace]

Basically I do not want someone to purposely lose like nero did in league 2 during 2020. His deliberate loss to Caboose in the final regular season game shifted who made the playoffs in league 2. This effectively gate kept and changed who would have the opportunity to go to league 1. It also effected who he could play in the next round which was an advantage he got by giving caboose a win. And its an advantage nero got by deliberately losing and benching his monday night player. Aren't you always suppose to play to win on this website?

I got 2nd in regular season last year and I think my path was easier than bear's. Bear got 1st seed. His path should have been guaranteed to be better than mine since he was the 1 seed. I also could have lost certain games near end of last year and changed who was what seed at the end of the season. I chose not to, figuring winning and trying to get the 1 seed in an unlikely situation was better than losing certain games and trying to find an advantageous wild card position. I was right to do what I did because I got the 2 seed. I did not think a wild card could get the 2 seed until I got it. And by luck of who got what other seed, I feel I had the more likely easy path. But the temptation I had was there, and I did not like it or feel what I could potentially be getting was right.

[kdowns]

I mean I dont see the big issue is about reseeding? In a normal tournament setting the bracket is determined by seeding, and you play the tournament that way.

From what you’re raising about the Nero situation is that by virtue of his positioning through out the entirety of that season, he was able to effectively decide whether or not win or losing would benefit him in the post season.

[D3f3nd3r]

FWIW, we voted on reseeding last year and the consensus was to not reseed the playoffs. So I was reluctant to put it up to another vote so soon without any additional people calling for it.

[AGar]

What if you simply don't allow Nero Cain into your leagues?

[racefan12]

I personally think that being able to determine whether a particular path in the playoffs is "easier" or "harder" is impossible.

Several years ago in another league, I had the 4th best record in the league, but because I won the division, I was seeded second in the playoffs. I lost my first round matchup against the "weaker" opponent, but had I been seeded 4th, I'd have won the championship.

[PokerFace]

edited my earlier post. Pooky had lead on my division and highest likelyhood of 1 seed for majority of season. So i was very tempted to lose and try for certain wild card spots.

Would someone losing early gaurantee later success? Not necessarily. Nero did not win league 2 that year for example, but his odds were higher. And there were some other reprecussions of his actions.

If no one seconds, sees the advantages I see that could occur, then I guess its fine. If no one sees then its unlikely to happen. If we had rules in our game that punnished players that did not play to win each game, I would accept that too

[kdowns]

From what I’ve understood about that situation was a L2 situation where all Nero had to do w was win the first round of playoffs to secure a spot in L1

[PokerFace]

Not exactly. Nero and I were guaranteed byes with the records we had at that time. He was 1 seed, I was 2 seed and nothing could change that at the end of that week. And since we had byes, we were guaranteed top 4. So we were both going to league 1 already. Winning it all was only thing left on line for both of us. I chose to play with players I thought gave me best chance for winning in week 14, he chose to bench his Monday night player right before that game. This changed who was seeds 3-6. The 4 and 5 seeds were statistically weaker than the 3 and 6 seeds. The 3 seed was caboose. Had Caboose lost to Nero, he would have been 4 or 5. Nero made it clear he did not want to face caboose in round 2 of the playoffs. Caboose had best team statistically and bad regular schedule. So Nero proceed to lose giving caboose the 3 seed he put him on the opposite end of the bracket so Caboose could only play me. With reseed there would have been less incentive for him to lose since if Caboose was 4 he would not necessarily played Nero

During last season I thought beating Pooky for lead of my division and 1 seed was impossible. I also thought the 2 seed was impossible and best I could get was 4 seed. I did not think wild cards could be 2 or 3 seeds until we reached the final weeks and I realized the clinched marks on the standings and how they worked. So I had temptation to lose and try to effect who was seeds 2-6. I thought that unsporting and figured I would just continue to play at best. I am very glad I did that. Having it possible for wild cards to get 2-6 is very good since it encourages winning. The reseeding does not encourage it as much, but it does some. If you all think my point is minor, thats fine. If I can not get the second, then so be it

[PokerFace]

Are we allowing draft

position

trades? (This is not the same as trading draft picks. Draft pick trades is bad in our leagues. Trading draft position is when let's say I pick 8th and you pick 3rd. We trade so now you pick 8th and I pick 3rd. This in turn effects every round of the draft based on snake format and would need to be agreed upon before the draft starts. You cannot start this in the middle of a draft ever.)

I do not care if we allow it or not and am not sure if that's something we needed to vote on or not

[D3f3nd3r]

Are we allowing draft

position

trades? (This is not the same as trading draft picks. Draft pick trades is bad in our leagues. Trading draft position is when let's say I pick 8th and you pick 3rd. We trade so now you pick 8th and I pick 3rd. This in turn effects every round of the draft based on snake format and would need to be agreed upon before the draft starts. You cannot start this in the middle of a draft ever.)

I do not care if we allow it or not and am not sure if that's something we needed to vote on or not

We traditionally allow this and haven’t voted against it, so we should say that this is allowed again

[Gammagooey]

Are we allowing draft

position

trades? (This is not the same as trading draft picks. Draft pick trades is bad in our leagues. Trading draft position is when let's say I pick 8th and you pick 3rd. We trade so now you pick 8th and I pick 3rd. This in turn effects every round of the draft based on snake format and would need to be agreed upon before the draft starts. You cannot start this in the middle of a draft ever.)

I do not care if we allow it or not and am not sure if that's something we needed to vote on or not

We traditionally allow this and haven’t voted against it, so we should say that this is allowed again

yeah I'm good w/ allowing draft position trades

[petapan]

if people want to swap position it's w/e imo

[D3f3nd3r]

Current poll results with a week to go:

# of IR slots: 2 is winning with ten votes, 1 has one vote and 3 has two votes
Pairs in divisions: Yes winning 9-4
Seeding: 13 votes for the current system, 1 vote for not guaranteeing a playoff berth to division winners
10 team leagues: Six team playoff is winning 9-5, four teams promoted is winning 9-3-1
8 team leagues: Four team playoff is winning 10-3, there is a three way tie between the options for number of teams promoted

Remember that there’s just one week left to sign up for the league if you haven’t already. We may allow for late signups if we desperately need the slots but I don’t want to make any guarantees.

[Talitha]

Riven said he'll be /in if needed but he doesn't mind if he's not needed

[D3f3nd3r]

Riven said he'll be /in if needed but he doesn't mind if he's not needed

I'll put Riven in for now, he makes 18 and I'd really like to get to 20 so that we have eight in L2 without any L1 people having to double up.

[D3f3nd3r]

Btw thanks Gamma for volunteering to commish L2!

Will get all the fun paperwork distributed tonight. Kdowns you and Gamma may need to coordinate giving Gamma commish access to L2.

[D3f3nd3r]

Spoiler: Rules Poll Results

• Number of IR slots: two wins with 11 of 15 votes.
  
• Allowing mutual pairs in divisions wins 10-4.
  
• Status quo for seeding wins 15-1.
  
• Six playoff teams in a ten-team league wins 9-6.
  
• Four playoff teams in an eight-team league wins 11-3. (Gamma it's your call how you want to handle this, since it'll probably make the schedule uneven.)
  
• Four promoted teams in a ten-team league wins 10-5.
  
• Promoted teams in an eight-team league was roughly tied at 6 votes for four, 5 votes for three, and 6 votes for two. I'm going to take the middle option and three teams from an eight-team league will be promoted.
  I'll make another post with my proposed pro/rel order.

• League rosters are in the second post. L2 has two more last-minute entries from people that contacted me privately as opposed to posting in the thread.
  
• Kilga still has league commish powers for L1 and Kdowns has them for L2. Kilga will retain them for L1 and will boot the people that were relegated and add the people that were promoted (probably via PM). Kdowns will need to hand the L2 reigns to Gamma, who will do the same for L2.
  
• I will send out a Whenisgood for draft scheduling for both L1 and L2 later tonight. Check your PMs.
  Please fill this out by end of day on Friday, August 18.
  
  
• My plan is once again to randomize draft orders just by doing a bunch of forum dice rolls some time this weekend, will give a bit of advance notice if anyone wants to spectate.
  
• If any two people want to request to be in the same division, please do so before your league's draft. Both of you need to give the okay in this thread.

[D3f3nd3r]

Spoiler: Proposal for promotion/relegation

Proposed:
L1 #1
L1 #2
L1 #3
L2 #1
L1 #4
L1 #5
L2 #2
L1 #6
L1 #7
L2 #3
L1 #8
L1 #9

L2 #4
L1 #10
L2 #5
L1 #11
L2 #6
L1 #12
L2 #7
L2 #8

Current (Four Promotions):
L1 #1
L1 #2
L1 #3
L2 #1
L1 #4
L1 #5
L2 #2
L1 #6
L1 #7
L2 #3
L1 #8
L2 #4

L1 #9
L2 #5
L1 #10
L2 #6
L2 #7
L1 #11
L2 #8
L1 #12

If anyone has issues with this or suggested changes let me know.

(EDIT: Removed L2 #9 and #10 for clarity. If L2 goes up to ten teams in the future we will reuse the old scheme.)

[Gammagooey]

As L2 commish I request dog pics from anyone attempting to curry my favor

I'll try to take a look at settings this sat/sun to see what needs changing and what I may need permissions for.

And also as a headsup I will be busy the vast majority of labor day weekend until Sept 5th.

[PokerFace]

I would still like to be in same division as Bear, but if he not want that, its cool. I still glad we shared last years win. I am glad he agreed to share it since he was technically in the lead.

We can't get chat gpt to randomly select draft positions? I think that would be cool, but if everyone prefers the dice, then i guess it fine

Also "Six

promoted

teams in a ten-team league wins 10-5." you got the right words there d3f3nder? I did not think that was an option

[D3f3nd3r]

Fixed that poll result, sorry. Brain was on autopilot.