Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Bingle]

I'm finding it really sus how a bunch of people are just refusing to talk about the color of their PM on principle like this. This talk been happening since like page two, people! Neither the mod nor our SITE ADMINISTRATOR have said a peep to indicate any issue with describing a color that the mod may or may not have used. Describing the color of a PM is common talk, do you want me to go link someone using 'red PM' as slang for Mafia or something?!

The issue is that a large section of the site sees using formatting failures on the mod's part to break a game as inherently oog, and as such against the spirit of the game. Using red pm as slang for 'mafia pm' isn't the same as angleshooting pm formatting, like say "what part of speech is the third word in your role PM?" in a theme game might be, and the latter is very angleshooty. I don't particularly have an issue with it, but there are a lot of people who do.

[Bingle]

I haven't even expressed a read of you. I've pointed out a potential scum slip. That's not a read of your play.

:thorface: A read is an alignment likelihood. If you think Ali scumslipped, e is more likely to be scum and that's a scumread. Your post here is pedantic in like the least helpful of ways, sidestepping around anything useful.

[Cook]

my cursory glance says theta and de70 are the holdouts on a massclaim

pedit: bingle what are your thoughts on a massclaim

[Cook]

Meanwhile, I wanted to say I legitimately believe at this point a truthful massclaim would likely break the game in favor of the town.

I firmly believe that a truthfull massclaim would be a crapshoot and would actually just exacerbate whatever the mechanical advantage already is, which I don't think is necessarily an advantage in town's favor. I'm also not opposed to massclaim.

last i heard from you was this

has that changed?

[Theta Alpine]

how many times do i have to say this
i am not opposed to a mass claim
i proposed something to do first that might improve the process but i realize i might be wrong on that actually improving things

[Cook]

okay okay okay fine

i'll just wait for massclaim then

[Cook]

i have a feeling massclaim will sort out the wheat from the chaff

[Bingle]

It's a safe take which is not the same.

I mean, that read is both, actually. It's safe in that scumreading a weird player isn't usually unpopular and it's easy in that there's no real attempt to look at why AniX was doing the things they were doing. Weird -> Scum is an easy take that doesn't take any thought or analysis and is therefore incredibly easy for scum to make. More nuanced reads like "AniX is moonlogicking that the role they have is indicative of every role in the game and thus probably doesn't come from a place of extra information" is less likely to occur to scum because they're straight up not trying to figure out people's alignments or perspectives.

[Cook]

It's a safe take which is not the same.

I mean, that read is both, actually. It's safe in that scumreading a weird player isn't usually unpopular and it's easy in that there's no real attempt to look at why AniX was doing the things they were doing. Weird -> Scum is an easy take that doesn't take any thought or analysis and is therefore incredibly easy for scum to make. More nuanced reads like "AniX is moonlogicking that the role they have is indicative of every role in the game and thus probably doesn't come from a place of extra information" is less likely to occur to scum because they're straight up not trying to figure out people's alignments or perspectives.

now the question comes is that your read on anix

[camelCasedSnivy]

this is probably a really stupid question but do we know how many scum there are

[Theta Alpine]

four

[Bingle]

pedit: bingle what are your thoughts on a massclaim

Already mentioned:

Massclaim is unlikely to give us a complete break like it would in a poorly designed setup.
Massclaim is likely to widen whatever balance disparity already exists in the game. Whether that favors town or scum is a straight tossup, but I think at least SS and TBone will at least have given nominal consideration to how it'll effect the game.
Massclaim will vastly improve my own contributions to the game.

On a whole, I don't care one way or the other but I'm happy to start the process because I'm a glorified BP and losing access to that isn't really a big deal.

I'm an unchangeable townie. I can't be recruited, given powers, or have my role changed through any means. I can choose to be immune to all night kills or all actions other than night kills at night. I'm going to be choosing BP because why the fuck would I not?

[camelCasedSnivy]

i wanna hear DE70s thoughts before my claim

[Aureal]

I haven't even expressed a read of you. I've pointed out a potential scum slip. That's not a read of your play.

:thorface: A read is an alignment likelihood. If you think Ali scumslipped, e is more likely to be scum and that's a scumread. Your post here is pedantic in like the least helpful of ways, sidestepping around anything useful.

It's a direct response to Alisae discrediting my ability to read her play. Seeing a scumslip is not a read on her play. Whereas saying that Alisae responding by discrediting my ability to read her makes her more likely scum is a read on her play.

[Bingle]

hello! I have been reminded of the existence of this rule by a list mod and asked to tell you all not to discuss specifics of role PM formatting any further.

Oh, whoops. I thought this was one of those cases where xyzzy had specifically asked for exemption from game specific rules, like I do when I want angleshooting friendly games. I'm gonna go ahead and blame my breaking of this rule on Alisae. Clearly eir fault, bad Ali.

[Aureal]

I'm fine with mass claiming. Why the heck not. It'll be less funny, but it ought to let us organize the best way to use my role.

[Bingle]

It's a direct response to Alisae discrediting my ability to read her play. Seeing a scumslip is not a read on her play. Whereas saying that Alisae responding by discrediting my ability to read her makes her more likely scum is a read on her play.

Yeah, I can see that in context. I just hipfire reacted to the kind of pedantic ass "Well akshually you're wrong about me reading you as scum" thing as a scum trying to weasel out of being held responsible for their reads thing.

In this case it does make sense as pushing back against being called out as an unreliable witness, although I will say you could have framed it more as a "The reason speaks for itself" kind of thing and been more effective. I also don't think your formatting thing was likely to bear fruit, but I definitely believe that you thought it might which is +town enough that I don't want you on the chopping block for at least a couple days.

[Theta Alpine]

i might as well claim then to be honest
i lose a potential bit of fun but ah well

i am a desperate treevivor doomer
basically once every day/night cycle within 24 hours of someone dying i can bring them back as a treestump that can post in the main thread and any pts they had access to until someone is limmed
except
i am desperate so it only works on people who would cop as an opposing alignment to me
meaning its utility is next to useless except for if we have a miller investigative or a janitor vig or some way to turn me into a miller
or if we suspect a death framer

[Bingle]

I can choose to be immune to all night kills or all actions other than night kills at night. I'm going to be choosing BP because why the fuck would I not?

Based on my PM's wording I may be strongman immune like a commuter, but that would also depend on the wording of the strongman and mod interpretation, so it's unreliable and I wouldn't expect a straight answer from xyzzy either way, btw.

[Bingle]

Would you like to be my mason?

I'll never say no to being conftown, faked or otherwise. I'm somewhat concerned you may have me confused for someone else, yet I've certainly no reason to decline free conftown status.

To be clear, I'm not offering because of your relationship to mastina, I'm aware you're different. I haven't played with you before, but I have been a fly on the wall for some of your games and I think that you have a similar enough style and presence to ETL to be able to apply my old skills with her to reading you, and that post was specifically a reach out to show I'm interested in working with you this game. Do you think I'm more or less right about that comparison?

[camelCasedSnivy]

ok yall fine with me claiming if we already started

i already softed anyway

[AniX]

Catching up in bursts after my brother's wedding:

Me: "I am deciding things based on what I believe people's roles are"
You: "But why haven't you considered DragonEater's vibes?"
Me: "I do not believe that is a valuable criteria at this point and in this game."
You, later: "Really weird AniX hasn't explained why the vibes randomly changed for me and why he was not curious about other vibe-based criteria"

So you scumread people based on their hypithetical role? And you think that scum is likelier to have Koba's hypothetical post restriction that town?

Rolereading is no more hypothetical than scumreading. It is an educated guess based on things that have occurred in the game which is ultimately speculation. I think Koba's post restriction is more likely than not scum, yes, especially given how they've played it thus far.

Ranger: Possibly forced to claim Miller either legitimately or illegitimately to active some power
Skygazer: Some sort of ability (possibly their legitimate assertion of vote trading) related to a questionnaire perhaps.
Aureal: Something related to their MLM posting shtick. Possibly recruitment for neighborhood or cult (although there was no cult at base, I guess this could activate a cult under certain conditions)
DragonEater: Hurt Tag usage as power activator
Koba: Artifice of posting towards DragonEater and DragonEater alone

Maybe I'm WAY out of the modern meta, but if having a pretty decent to solid leads on at least 5 roles of other players in a complex game with brand new roles is "barely", I'd love to see your 6+.

Yes?

Like, their posting is performative as shit. But anyone who has ever talked to AniX could tell you that. For example: (Was gonna link a thread that I now think is in the SPeezy cause I can't find it easily on this account) that time when they posted like 400 paragraphs as a protest against popularity contests.

Saying AniX is scummy here is like the easiest stance you could possibly take.

It was only 315, first of all.

I can't read that link cause some administrators won't let alts have speezy access.

Alts have been allowed to have Speakeasy Access for over a year now (since June 21, 2022). ONE of your accounts just has to meet the requirements.

I'm sorry AniX but if you're town you gotta stop mech solving and start sorting people by their playstyle, OR at least have really compelling arguments behind your mech solving which atm you don't.

You are welcome to have this opinion on whether mechreading is valuable in this game, but I strongly disagree that random day one guessing based on what someone said in a weird tone or whatever is LESS compelling than mechreading right now. My mechreads are AT LEAST as compelling as any argument put forward for scumreading any individual in this game vs any other individual.

[Cook]

welcome back anix

[Ranger]

I think that you have a similar enough style and presence to ETL to be able to apply my old skills with her to reading you, and that post was specifically a reach out to show I'm interested in working with you this game. Do you think I'm more or less right about that comparison?

I actually don't know ETL. I vaguely recognize you're referring to EspeciallyTheLies. I know nothing of her, so I wouldn't know if it's apt or not.

Within my capacities (I can't iso, reread, or case people rn due to rl restrictions like helping my friend), I'll work with anyone willing to work with me, you included.

[Ranger]

I think that you have a similar enough style and presence to ETL to be able to apply my old skills with her to reading you, and that post was specifically a reach out to show I'm interested in working with you this game. Do you think I'm more or less right about that comparison?

I actually don't know ETL. I vaguely recognize you're referring to EspeciallyTheLies. I know nothing of her, so I wouldn't know if it's apt or not.

Small correction, I technically did play with her twice. In the first, I was scum; in the second, she was and killed me N1. So, I've no true familiarity with her, because we never interacted much. I don't remember much from our Blitz days though, unless I actually view the game in question. Was a different us, largely.