Mini 2307 | Songs from Glee! | Endgame

[Skygazer]

(tomorrow)

kkfc is looking slightly better to me vibe wise idk

[PenguinPower]

Kitty is such a blah vote.

[Skygazer]

dont wanna put rn to e1 and i wanna reevaluate kkfc when im less tired

[Skygazer]

how r u reading kkfc at the moment

[KittyTacky]

kitty - what's your favorite type of ice cream

There's that kind of packaged ice cream that is a sort of... mix of vanilla and chocolate with some very tasty chunks inside, with chocolate poured over it and also nuts.

that's more vanilla than I like...what's it called?

I'll have to check next time I buy it.

Reads:

Conf Town

Me!

Town

PenguinPower

Lean Town

Skygazer
KKFC

Null/Neutral

Elements
Random Nurse

Scum Lean

OopsieDaisy - I really really don't like the play around the hammer there honestly

Scum

None

[Skygazer]

i would like to see you expand on the oopsie read and kkfc read if at all possible

[Skygazer]

VOTE: kkfc

reconsidered

[Random Nurse]

Is it unreasonable to suspect there's Scum among KKFC, Elements, PP, and OopsieDaisy? All were on IAVH's lim.

My question is why was DeltaBreedy targeted for the NK? Is it just a low-info lim, or was he pushing someone too much?

I'm going to ISO Delta soon.

[Random Nurse]

I would like those remaining four who voted for IAVH to very thoroughly explain why they limmed him.

[Random Nurse]

I'm looking through Delta's ISO right now. I'm not counting

DB

and

IAVH

exchanges because we both know what they are now.

In 163

Skygazer

made a post about

DB

's 143 feeling like a Scum post, and 123 looking kind of LAMIST.

Skygazer

did mention

IAVH

being perceived as an easy target, and stated he didn't like

DB

's vote there. Going out on a limb here I could see this as Scum positioning themselves to look Town by being "apprehensive" about joining in on a wagon on an easy target. If I were Scum I would definitely stay off a wagon on an easy target because of course that easy wagon would be increasingly scrutinized later through the game.

DB

also mentioned in 291 that

KKFC

reached E-1; what I should do is look through that wagon as well and compare it to

IAVH

's lim. In 309

DB

mentioned

"I'm keen to have a clear justification from

Sky

on how they arrived at their narrowed-down scumpool,"

and this slightly adds weight to the idea that

Delta

was suspecting

Skygazer (SG)

, or at least scrutinizing them. In the same post

DB

also mentions he doesn't like

PP

's approach to

KKFC

's wagon. This could mean, like with

SG

, that

Delta

was putting unwanted attention on

PP

(if

PP

was Scum). I believe DB's 313 was also directed at SG:

"Enlightened and delicious as that list may be, I'm not going to place much faith in it, to be honest. It also feels like you're trying to play down your reads - do you have confidence in your vibereads or don't you? It's not clear."

That post adds slightly more weight to the idea that

DB

was giving unwanted attention to

SG

(if it's not clear I'm trying to figure out why

DB

was killed).

DB

also questions

SG

in 316 for clarity. In 319 he also asks

SG

for further clarity on his vote of

KKFC

, and whether there's further justification of it beyond just vibes (for me personally gut vibes are a heavy element of my own gameplay). In 323

DB

does seem satisfied with

SG

's answers.

He does ask

Elements

a question in 354:

"So what was your conclusion in the end

Elements

? Just to be clear - is it that

KKFC

is town because no-one reacted to the intent to hammer bar

PP

? I ask because what

Sky

said is perfectly legitimate and I think it's wrong to be writing off what scum could and couldn't do D1."

I don't think this question in itself would really persuade Scum to kill him. The exchange between

DB

and

Kitty

in 397 was somewhat interesting.

Kitty

stated that

IAVH

was Town, to which

DB

questioned why

IAVH

was outright labeling

IAVH

was Town was weird. In hindsight we know now that

IAVH

is Town. It could be that Scum killed him because he was questioning

Kitty

on why he claimed

IAVH

was Town. At this point I believe

DB

had scrutinized

SG

more than the other two.

To be fair in 441 he definitely was baited into mis-limming

IAVH

due to differences in playstyle.

DB

does mention in 442 that

KKFC

could be a good lim for Day 1; this could signal to Scum to kill

DB

in order to avoid a potential problem (if

KKFC

is Scum).

Looking at his 527, I see he has

IAVH

(Town) way on the bottom as Scum on his read list. Interestingly, he has

SG

, the player he had questioned the most up to this point, on the top of his read list. Personally, it would not surprise me if it turned out

SG

was Scum; I could see Scum wanting to tie up a loose end, provide a low-info NK, and also leave

SG

(Scum) in a good light with

SG

at the top of the deceased's read list. At this point, barring

IAVH

,

SG

got the brunt of

DB

's scrutiny. 533 is telling,

"Could you put

Kitty

,

RN

and

KKFC

in an order? I dont get the sense that they're even in your mind,"

is yet another little weight added onto

SG

that seems to express scrutiny and doubt.

Beyond this there's not much else to go on from

Delta

. I am curious to know exactly which player he interacted with the least.

At this point

SG

is in the back of my mind a little more as potential Scum. I'm not ready to cast a vote there yet, and I will not be rushed either way.

[Elements]

VOTE: daisy

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

[Elements]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

Is this because of the wall post?

[Elements]

PP and KT can be town for today

[OopsieDaisy]

I would like those remaining four who voted for IAVH to very thoroughly explain why they limmed him.

Yeehaw

I originally voted IAVH for wagonomics reasons. KKFC had finally got a bit of pressure off of em and had found a scumread of sorts, I wanted to bolster the wagon to see if I could kick KKFC's offence mode into play since I felt that's where i would see the townier side of his slot come through if it existed. It also served to create a counterwagon to KKFC's wagon, meaning players would then be given a choice of two wagons to commit to, rather than us being stuck circling around one. Plus IAVH's play up until this point hadn't set the world alight whatsoever, and despite the fact that his play was consistent with his personality (something that I did townread him for earlier on), it was becoming harder to see pro-town motivation in his posts.

However a page after this vote IAVH starts kicking his gambit into play and I hop off the wagon very quickly. If he's a pr I'm not interested in voting him out, as imo leaving him alive in the night and seeing if scum choose to kill the slot would be worth it, as he might actually get to use an ability. I'm confused at him drawing attention to his softing of a PR claim (if you're a PR why are you so desperate for people to know?) but I play along because I agreed with the idea of getting him to claim (since he's already outed himself as a PR).

Then 472 happens, he reveals it was all a ploy, and lashes out at me. At this point the next few pages speak for themselves. I was pissed off at this slot who was now pushing me for two reasons which didn't make sense to me. The push based on me using a meta read as a springboard for a push meaning I'm scum is something that was answered for earlier in the day, and the push on me based on the gambit I felt was bogus because the gambit itself flops when three different people all out a power role for you. He was warping the game around himself with bad pushes and silly gambits, so I wanted the slot out of the game and the hammer presented itself.

Honestly maybe there's a bit of just, me not liking being so blatantly lied to too? I don't like it when players punish me for trying to cooperate with them, legit just feels bad.

TL:DR - Initially voted IAVH to help my read on kkfc and create multiple wagons, hopped off because I didn't wanna vote a PR, and hopped back on when the vt claim came through alongside the imo terrible push on me. Hope this was able to clear things up

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

Is this because of the wall post?

Yep. I voted him to pressure content out, we now have some solvy content from the slot, no need for my vote to stay.

[RH]

This is a reminder that it's against site rules to directly copy-paste PMs.

[OopsieDaisy]

This is a reminder that it's against site rules to directly copy-paste PMs.

I hear ya

[Random Nurse]

KittyTacky

I noticed that your vote on me in 15 remained there the entirety of Day 1: it never moved. To be fair, mine never moved either, and the reason for this is that I haven't truly given this game the attention it deserved. As for 77, I am not new, and am an alt of Wake. On reread regarding that same post I do wonder why you said I was newish to Mafia, when in that post of mine you quoted 39 I had even mentioned I had a main account? I suppose that matters little either way. 78 resonates with me because similarly I really, REALLY struggle with Day 1 because I have absolutely zero tangible evidence to work with: the game, for me as Town, actually starts with Day 2. Ah, I missed 82; that's fair. Just rereading 121 I was frustrated by

IAVH

's stupidity and not understanding that a miscounted voted can cause a mis-lim, compromising the game, which is a bad thing; I will say that being confrontational doesn't *necessarily* make one Town. It can be very easy to fake. To be frank I *do* Townread the notion of

IAVH

being an easy lim target, and I personally have a difficult time seeing

IAVH

acting the way he did as Scum, because Scum are trying to preserve themselves and he was basically running into volcano with his behavior. To be honest I was going to vote him as well but then I saw that he had already been hammered. I think we disagree on 301, in that I do suspect at least one Scum may have jumped on the opportunity to lim the village idiot—I would then expect the other to stay off it as a counterweight, meaning there's probably one on the wagon and one targeting someone else. As an aside I feel much more liberated playing as Town because I can just relax, take my time, and slowly analyze the game at my own pace without feeling the need to pretend. 302 I'm not nearly as comfortable on: anyone with a colored username here has ample experience thus, in my opinion, will be FAR better at playing as either Town or Scum. Perhaps my view on this is flawed, but I doubt it; I have good reason to be worried *if*

PP

is Scum. I'm not easily inclined to write-off

Kitty

with a Townread because he Townread

IAVH

during Day 1; I do agree with him about

IAVH

but it's also exquisitely easy to fake as Scum (regarding 395. Also, at this very moment of typing I feel indifferent on

KKFC

.

428 is reasonable. I do approve of 647; I'm Townreading the notion. 648 I'd like to hear more on.

679... Hm. I would appreciate him sharing more why he Townreads

PP

, and Scumreads

Oopsie

:

"I really really don't like the play around the hammer there honestly."

I feel like on

Oopsie

this is the first time he ever actually mentioned anything regarding them. The only two times he quoted

Oopsie

didn't shed much info: the prior was about ice cream and the latter about

"Yeah again if I try to rock the boat early D1, a townie usually dies so I don't see much incentive to do so."

That's it. Let me know if I'm being unfair

Kitty

, but if you were Scumreading

Oopsie

and have them on the bottom of your reads list, wouldn't you have posted anything or asked anything about/to that slot yet? As I see it you've given no prior reasoning or inclination as to why you've placed

Oopsie

at the very bottom of your reads list: if you placed a player there wouldn't you have said something about it, ever? I'm hoping you're not just posing for us,

Kitty

, because I am watching you, and I'm biding my time for when you slip up.

I'm not going to vote you outright currently, but I will point a

Finger of Suspicion

at you currently.

[Random Nurse]

I will say right now that it is mentally draining to make these analytical posts; please do not expect me to hyper-analyze all the other players this way in a short period of time, if I even do so. I get very angry when I spend a lot of time and energy on read posts as Town only to have them ignored, which is part and parcel as to why I rarely if ever do so, opting instead to engage others.

As a reminder I am V/LA on Thursday/Friday/Saturday, and am extremely limited in both posting and reading the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

PP and KT can be town for today

Why specifically these two?

[Random Nurse]

Elements

As I understand it (in 34), sheeping is Scummish because sheeping is when you basically just follow another player quickly onto a wagon, often with little stated reasoning of your own. Scum do this more often than Town because Scum are looking for convenient reasons and opportunities to get rid of Town. Perhaps I am biased here, but I doubt it. I'm willing to write this point off as philosophical differences in gameplay. You vote

IAVH

in 109, and acknowledge he's the easiest push in 113. I'm sure you can understand how I'd feel apprehensive on this, you knowing he was an easy push, and you clearly committed on his lim by never taking your vote off. You voiced intent to hammer

KKFC

in 206 and then later in 306 you voted me instead. You did ask

Daisy

a question about being Scum in a forum game in 329. Regarding 337 and 341 I don't particularly like that there was no reason given. 346 I'm not sure how to read it, frankly. I do agree with his 349. Could you please elaborate on 350? Regarding 356,

"It's a 9 player game. I think it's highly unlikely scum is going to bus their partner halfway through day 1 and then solo the rest of the game,"

I feel is a fair observation that I agree with, although there are the rare risk-takers. I'm not sure I understand the shift in 368 about

Skygazer

being Town now. 437 and 465 require explanation: I do not like these two posts—you already said he was the easiest push. Regarding 477 is there recent evidence of this? You barely gave any rationale for limming

IAVH

besides him being a village idiot.

607: OK, but why

Kitty

? You make these actions but you rarely provide any reason behind it. To anyone else reading this, am I being unfair with

Elements

? I don't recall playing with him before, so I don't have a firm grasp on *how* he plays the game. I think the actions sans the reasons is what's naturally getting my goat here. 688: OK, why?

At the moment regarding Elements he leaves more questions than answers, but I don't think I currently Scumread him for it. I don't think I Townread him for it either. I don't see much for motivation or positioning here. At this moment I would place

Elements

higher on my reads list than

Kitty

.

Random Nurse
iamveryhappy
Deltabreedy

Elements

KittyTacky

SORTING:

OopsieDaisy, Skygazer, PenguinPower, KatyKimFanClub

[OopsieDaisy]

607: OK, but why

Kitty

? You make these actions but you rarely provide any reason behind it. To anyone else reading this, am I being unfair with

Elements

? I don't recall playing with him before, so I don't have a firm grasp on *how* he plays the game. I think the actions sans the reasons is what's naturally getting my goat here. 688: OK, why?

First thing, El goes by she/they pronouns

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

[Random Nurse]

KatyKimFanClub

44, 57, and 59 are understandable and I agree. 79: no. 83: did it? I feel indifferent on 122. 124 I don't particularly like. 205 you were at E-1? The lack of resistance to your wagon slightly signals to me that you *could* be Town. In my personal experience it's a bitch trying to lim Scum Day 1 because of the vicious resistance, especially when Scum have 3 members. I'm biased on this specific point due to my experiences. Could you clarify on 210 please? 214 as well. 218: lol. 215: I wouldn't mind re-examining this. 233 is interesting: the lack of resistance, as mentioned earlier, nips at me. I've been limmed as Town with like no resistance before on Day 1: it sucks, and it's a tell. I think I can agree with 236. Regarding 242,

"Fair, but if your worry is that I'm being fed lines by a partner, then I hope I've assuaged some of those suspicions by now?,"

not sure how I'm feeling about this. Regarding 243 I agree with the first section and understand the second part. I think I like 249, 251, and 254. Regarding 258 I would stop focusing on defending one's self and more on actually Scumhunting and engaging. I do like that you're engaging Skygazer in 259. 272: I don't think I like this thinking of Mafia in terms of *defense* and *offense,* but this could be just philosophical differences in gameplay. I can agree with 273.

*my eyes are starting to bleed after reading post #300 of yours. Not on you, I don't like doing so much reading*

344: while he did announce intent to hammer, that doesn't necessarily mean he would actually do it. Feeling indifferent on 345 and 347. 388: did

Oopsie

say she didn't think you were getting bussed? Furthermore what exactly do you mean by *bussed*? I thought that term was only for when Scum do it to their teammates. Am I mistaken here? By bus do you mean getting piled on by multiple players quickly to E-1? I don't like 407.

KKFC

, does it feel like

PP

is trying to manipulate the game?

Please elaborate on 549. Tentatively I'm interested in 649, and invite you to talk more about it; I'd be interested in delving more on this. Is it possible Scum first jumped onto your wagon, and then saw the opportunity to jump on

IAVH

due to his anti-Town behavior? 660: I think he would know better to try to compare me to

IAVH

. As mentioned earlier, I play the game as I play it, at the pace I want to play it, and will not be manipulated to play the game as someone else wants me to play. 667:

"Not gonna lie, I'm feeling a little stalled in this game. This is really selfish but I really wish we had something investigative from last night to go off,"

not sure how I feel about this. 668: why?

Tentatively I'm very slightly Townreading this slot. The main reason I'm doing this is because the flash wagon to E-1 screams no resistance. Was there anyone in particular that argued against

KKFC

's flash wagon? There are a good deal of questions directed towards you I'd like to see answered, and depending on your answers (or lack thereof) my read on you will change. I'll put you above

Elements

and

Kitty

for now.

Random Nurse
iamveryhappy
Deltabreedy

KatyKimFanClub

Elements

KittyTacky

SORTING:

OopsieDaisy, Skygazer, PenguinPower

[Random Nurse]

607: OK, but why

Kitty

? You make these actions but you rarely provide any reason behind it. To anyone else reading this, am I being unfair with

Elements

? I don't recall playing with him before, so I don't have a firm grasp on *how* he plays the game. I think the actions sans the reasons is what's naturally getting my goat here. 688: OK, why?

First thing, El goes by she/they pronouns

(1)

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

(1) Duly noted.

Hm. Currently I don't really see him trying to push an agenda or trying to manipulate others. I don't get that feeling he's trying to control the game, seeing that so many of his posts are more actions without prior reasoning, or trying to direct players to vote others.