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[sheepsaysmeep]

Tbf the setup of garlic bread mafia was town jk + 1-shot bp + vts lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

viewtopic.php?t=91073

[sheepsaysmeep]

the little picture in my brain is that chicago panicked that his nightkill failed and then claimed an "x-shot power" that might explain that

[sheepsaysmeep]

I dont think that is actually more likely than other scenarios but it fits very nicely

[Random Nurse]

lol scumclaim

By all means please explain.

i dont really think a checker and a jailkeeper can coexist in a mini because the chance for false positives is p high
if the mafia are ascetics then JK doesnt work on the roleblock side
also 1 JKer 6 VT 2 Mafia is a balanced setup so it doesnt rlly fit with bulletproof/checker
also its weird you didnt push back on the CT claim if you're a JK because JK doesnt really fit

If I were Scum, it'd be much easier for me to claim VT than going out on such a limb.

[medeia]

Is it better for me to claim after the people I find scummy rather than before

eh seems like such a marginal advantage better for it to take less time

[medeia]

Hey, so, I jailed Medeia Night 1.

I'm Town Jailkeeper.

i mean, this

would

explain my result

hmhmhm

i struggle so much with coincidence

[medeia]

3 town non-vt seems like it could be pushing it for 9p?

idk kinda hard to evaluate the usefulness of my role with the information at hand but it seems like maybe too much power here yeah

not like any 3 non-vts would be but as long as my role functions as a semi-investigative it seems like a lot and i don't really think my role would be in the setup if the only non-successful result it could yield was if jailkept or targeting the same target as the jailkeeper?

like assuming t3 and ceejayvinoya claim vanilla town the claimed setup would be:

4 vanilla town
odd-night checker
jailkeeper
two-shot bulletproof

2 mafia ?

so i would think at least one of the mafias would probably be ascetic? otherwise it's just red herring role

like even if that was the setup and there was a mafia jailkeeper or roleblocker as well which would potentially grant more non-successes making sense out of that information would be kinda difficult?

well let's see

yeah like mafia is rather unlikely to claim the roleblock in most situations so if i got back a no success on someone that was roleblocked it'd just be messy i think so likely there is a relevant success yeah

and if there is a relevant success it seems like maybe too much power

[medeia]

Because I felt either she's the Towniest Town and I needed to protect her OR she's very good Scum looking like the Towniest Town and dishing out death with delight.

if you are indeed town here then it seems somewhat possible to me that you did successfully protect me

like assume town!random nurse options would then be:

chicagotypewriter is also town and was targeted with the nightkill -> possible due to pr claim and such but setup seems maybe unlikely

or

chicagotypewriter is also town but i was targeted with the nightkill and saved by the jailkeep and chicagotypewriter simply assumed it was him -> which would be logical behaviour from chicagotypewriter in that situation i think just don't know how likely that setup would be

or

chicagotypewriter is not town and chose not to kill in order to make more believable bulletproof claim -> thought this was kinda unlikely even before there was another possible explanation for the missing nightkill; like in theory there'd be a lot of mafia benefit to this - believable claim, 2-shot so it explains continued presence later in the game even though he'd be 'confirmed' - but skipping the nightkill would be a big tradeoff for this and in practice i don't know how likely mafia are to do this

or

chicagotypewriter is not town and attempted to kill me and i was saved by the jailkeep and chicagotypewriter took this opportunity to claim bulletproof -> which would be pretty quick thinking i think but the missing nightkill would certainly be on the scums minds and this does not seem impossible or even super unlikely to me, and has added benefit of probably uncovering how the nightkill was actually prevented

[medeia]

I'm thinking if I were a mafia JK I'll just target the x-shot unspecified pr just in case...

of course RN could still be scum ascetic but it's weird that there's both an ascetic and a bulletproof in a setup

i mean, mafia cannot target the x-shot unspecified pr claim with both a jailkeeper and the nightkill (well i guess they could but...)

like if random nurse is a mafia jailkeeper, or partner could be the jailkeeper as well i guess, then based on result it would have obviously been better to nightkill me and jailkeep chicagotypewriter

but... that's not what happened, and if random nurse is a scums then it doesn't seem like all that unlikely of a course of action to me either?

i don't know still think the setup would be weird without an ascetic here

like even if random nurse is truthful it still seems kinda likely to me that there is an ascetic?

but maybe i am evaluating my role and what it means for the setup altogether incorrectly

when i targeted random nurse i thought it checked to see if my target's action was successful not my own so it seems very possible to me that i am misevaluating

[medeia]

ceeja feels towny on this page lol

i like how often our thoughts line up (like with the claiming the remaining shots thing) and am going to force myself not to get paranoid about this

[medeia]

i dont really think a checker and a jailkeeper can coexist in a mini because the chance for false positives is p high
if the mafia are ascetics then JK doesnt work on the roleblock side
also 1 JKer 6 VT 2 Mafia is a balanced setup so it doesnt rlly fit with bulletproof/checker
also its weird you didnt push back on the CT claim if you're a JK because JK doesnt really fit

i guess the false positives do not seem impossible to me design wise but i really do not think there would be

only

false positives without any 'true' positives

[medeia]

If I were Scum, it'd be much easier for me to claim VT than going out on such a limb.

... this however would not explain my result lol

i cannot tell if this is intentional or not

[medeia]

If I were Scum, it'd be much easier for me to claim VT than going out on such a limb.

... this however would not explain my result lol

i cannot tell if this is intentional or not

like do scums actually say 'well if i was a scums i would have claimed vanilla town' after fakeclaiming to make everything make sense

mmmmmmmm

like do they

[medeia]

mmmaybe i guess

[skitter30]

Is
Jk
Checker
Bulletproof

Roleblocker
Ascetic

Balanced?
Plz someone who is good at this help me

[skitter30]

Tbh id pooky is scum i probably believe all 3, with scum trying to kill medeia and rn blocking it

Pooly scum didnf make sense with the nk missing because of the bulletproof b/c pooky doesn't kill chicago there, and i couldn't wrap my mind around how to make those two thinga work together

Yes i'm predicating this off of pooky scum

[skitter30]

If pooky town this is a lot more messy, random nurae probably scum fake-claiming to explain medeia's result and they shot chicago

[skitter30]

Because I felt either she's the Towniest Town and I needed to protect her OR she's very good Scum looking like the Towniest Town and dishing out death with delight.

if you are indeed town here then it seems somewhat possible to me that you did successfully protect me

like assume town!random nurse options would then be:

chicagotypewriter is also town and was targeted with the nightkill -> possible due to pr claim and such but setup seems maybe unlikely

or

chicagotypewriter is also town but i was targeted with the nightkill and saved by the jailkeep and chicagotypewriter simply assumed it was him -> which would be logical behaviour from chicagotypewriter in that situation i think just don't know how likely that setup would be

or

chicagotypewriter is not town and chose not to kill in order to make more believable bulletproof claim -> thought this was kinda unlikely even before there was another possible explanation for the missing nightkill; like in theory there'd be a lot of mafia benefit to this - believable claim, 2-shot so it explains continued presence later in the game even though he'd be 'confirmed' - but skipping the nightkill would be a big tradeoff for this and in practice i don't know how likely mafia are to do this

or

chicagotypewriter is not town and attempted to kill me and i was saved by the jailkeep and chicagotypewriter took this opportunity to claim bulletproof -> which would be pretty quick thinking i think but the missing nightkill would certainly be on the scums minds and this does not seem impossible or even super unlikely to me, and has added benefit of probably uncovering how the nightkill was actually prevented

Option 3 is unlikely imo
Option 4 probably too but leas likely than 3

[medeia]

medeia - odd-night checker
random nurse - town jailkeeper(?)
chicagotypewriter - two-shot bulletproof(?)
meuh - vanilla town
pooky - vanilla town(?)
skitter - vanilla town(?)
sheepsaysmeep - vanilla town(?)
t3 - ?
ceejayvinoya - ?

still would like to finish this even though i am kinda assuming the rest

but ceejayvinoya would have just claimed? yeah, so mostly waiting on t3

if one of random nurse/chicagotypewriter is lying then possible setups are:

5 vanilla town
odd-night checker
jailkeeper

2 mafia ?

which is hard to judge with current information

or

5 vanilla town
odd-night checker
two-shot bulletproof

1 mafia ascetic/jailkeeper/roleblocker/etc
1 mafia ?

if both mafia were ascetic this would basically make me a hard investigative on odd nights, if neither was this would make me a named townie who could get unsuccessfuls if targeted by mafia or if targeting the same target as mafia? which uh, nearly positive the latter is not a passable setup

[medeia]

Is
Jk
Checker
Bulletproof

Roleblocker
Ascetic

Balanced?
Plz someone who is good at this help me

uh, well i not good at this, but! i am here

so i potentially get false positives from jailkeeper and roleblocker, but true positive from ascetic,

i kinda think the roleblocker would probably be something else if this were the case? like maybe 1-shot strongman or a rolecop or something

just seems like so many potential false positives and! hard for mafias to interact with both the jailkeeper and bulletproof

but i don't actually know how often designers try to make the mafia powers line up with the towns

no database for micro normals because they're usually not played in the normal queue +/

[medeia]

but i don't actually know how often designers try to make the mafia powers line up with the towns

like obviously they try to balance the game but i meant more as in like counterplay

[skitter30]

Idk i'm bad at setups

[skitter30]

What i recall from rc's mod meta is that:
- i think he's into false positives/elegance
- he really, really hates protective roles and scum having no way to guarantee a kill

Now that i remember that
Hmmmmm

[medeia]

i think maybe it would be? it's weird for my role to be gated because it's already kinda weak or at least narrow so with added mafia power it could potentially be balanced

does seem messy tho