Mini 695 - Futurama Mafia - Over

[Porochaz]

Its like playing pocket aces against pocket 2's if you want to keep going with the Hold Em similie, its very good odds. Besides Xtoxms game in my view doesnt count and the other game I cant remember... and no, if I think its a possibility then it should just be as simple as that, because if were wrong its very damaging to town as weve gone over numerous times and besides you could, and about the faulty premise as Ive said before - when you decided to caps lock me - say the exact same thing about the opposite way

[kloud1516]

Its like playing pocket aces against pocket 2's if you want to keep going with the Hold Em similie, its very good odds. Besides Xtoxms game in my view doesnt count and the other game I cant remember... and no, if I think its a possibility then it should just be as simple as that, because if were wrong its very damaging to town as weve gone over numerous times and besides you could, and about the faulty premise as Ive said before - when you decided to caps lock me - say the exact same thing about the opposite way

1) I disagree with you about it being damaging, for reasons I, and others have already stated. If we have a certain number of claims that are provable we can weed out scum. Likewise, we can also gauge from a person's claim whether or not the claim dovetails/explains their actions and play throughout the game. Yes, we expose roles to scum in the process, but we are able to acquire more information that the town could use if we happen to not be in a lylo.

2) When did I caps lock you?

3) No, the two do not equate, for if you are wrong about it not being a lylo and it is and we mislynch, town loses. If I am wrong about it being a lylo and we claim, there is still an opportunity for town to win, plus we have information to go with, be it from claims and even responses to claims. This cannot be said if we chose to lynch and not claim, for if we lose, we lose.

[Porochaz]

1, question, how is that information useful if all our powerroles are dead?

2, pretty sure it was you, earlier on I caps locked you back

3, But then I dont think were in lylo. (deja vu)

Why are we arguing about this again, we should just wait for animorphs opinion and be done.

[kloud1516]

1, question, how is that information useful if all our powerroles are dead?

2, pretty sure it was you, earlier on I caps locked you back

3, But then I dont think were in lylo. (deja vu)

Why are we arguing about this again, we should just wait for animorphs opinion and be done.

1) This is assuming we have more than one power role (or another besides the "hider"). Without the SK, there should only be one kill a night, meaning that not all the power roles would be dead.

2) I do not recall doing so, but I could be mistaken

3) Which is the problem in the first place. If we are and mislynch, the game is over. This, as I said before, is far different from if I was wrong about it being a lylo, for we would still have time left in the game, meaning the two are not equal.

[kloud1516]

Why are we arguing about this again, we should just wait for animorphs opinion and be done.

And I am arguing about it because not claiming and mislynching could cost us the game. I don't know about you, but I would rather the town win then the town simply handing scum the game because some players assumed it was unlikely that we could be in lylo.

[animorpherv1]

I posted this after Xtoxm had apparently hammered himself. I waited a while and the day didn't end so I was trying to make sure that we weren't assuming that we were really in twilight when we might not have been. If the day hadn't ended shortly after then there would have to have been some reason it hadn't; I was throwing out a couple guesses.

I did read the post in its entirety, and understand the overall point you were trying to make.

This being said, the quoting of farside-mod and trying to figure out whether or not the day was over was not a proponent of my reasoning for finding you suspicious

. This is about the only thing about this post that I didn't have a problem with, as the rules did say vote counts and votes would be misleading.

I'm confused on this, how can someone POSSIBLY find someone suspicious by them quoting the mod and trying to get more info? My thoughts, kloud is scum, trying to lynch Zorblag for a bad reason at this point.

vote:kloud1516

for the moment, still reading.

[animorpherv1]

I don't see the point in this:

[Porochaz]

I was trying to write no on my head as a point to what I wrote earlier, I just couldnt get a pen to work on my head (its made of leather, you know) so used hair dye. You can see the no! but its a bit smudged.

[animorpherv1]

I'm on page 20, so I'm almost finished my reread.

This makes me ask questions:

Eh, well better make it known that I die if I hide behind Mafia

Do you know this or are you inferring it?

Xtoxm answers:

I know it.

When before, pacman answered he didn't know.

[animorpherv1]

My thoughts:

Kmd4390

Pro town vibe here. Seems generally helpful, and willing to make some strong points.

Xtoxm

Pro scum vibe. Votes wolf (me), without rereading, then unvotes, and votes Drunken Piper (I'm assuming I have that right) for no reason? Something is not right here.

kloud1516

Scum vibe. Look above a little.

Zorblag

Pro town. kloud got very mad at him, and Zorblag defended himself well.

Jahudo

Pro town. Generally helpful.

animorpherv1

Town. First reread

Drunken Piper

No vibe. A supposed "random" vte (that's what I'm calling it) by X x2, and I'm still a bit confused on his scum/towniness...

Porochaz

Town vibe. Stuck to his story that he thinks there are 2 scum left (also, I'm assuming I got this one right to)

also,

@whoever is willing to answer

, why did you lynch X x2 the first time? That might be helpful.

[Zorblag]

I have now won the fight against no internet connection at home. Sorry about not being about for yesterday.

Welcome to the game animorpherv1. To answer you latest question, Xtoxm was lynched the first time around when he claimed that he was a Serial Killer shortly into the start of day one. Thank you for giving thoughts on the players in the game. Do you have an opinion about whether or not we should be mass claiming at this time? What do you have to say about Wolframnhart's earlier assertions that he thought he had something effecting his vote today?

I do think that you've misread the argument Kloud1516 was making against me though.

I'm confused on this, how can someone POSSIBLY find someone suspicious by them quoting the mod and trying to get more info? My thoughts, kloud is scum, trying to lynch Zorblag for a bad reason at this point.

vote:kloud1516

for the moment, still reading.

He was saying that my quoting the mod and trying to figure out whether or not the day was over was the one thing he liked about the posts he was talking about not that he found them to be a reason to think I was scummy. I'll let him address your concerns past there but I think you likely missed a not when looking over what he was saying.

Xtoxm, I'm really not happy with your continued failure to give a reason for your Drunken Piper vote. I won't say that you don't have any reasons but I do know that I found pacman281292 suspect before you took over and with your apparent willingness to vote without giving justification I'm not any happier with your play. Unless you can provide a reason for your vote I think that I'm going to be voting for you in the near future. I want to give you another opportunity to explain where you're coming from but if you firmly believe that we're in LyLo (which you apparently do) then you should be able to give reasons for votes that your casting; we can't afford to be wrong and if you're sure enough to be voting you should be able to try to convince the rest of us that you have some reason.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Kmd4390]

also,

@whoever is willing to answer

, why did you lynch X x2 the first time? That might be helpful.

I wasn't here for it, but I can answer because I'd have lynched him too. He was a SK. He claimed SK. Yes, he needed to be lynched. It's an anti-town role. Yes, he probably would have worked with the town N1, but if he saw a chance to win the game, he'd have done it.

[animorpherv1]

Thank you to Zorblag and kmd. That answers my question.

[Porochaz]

Thank you to Zorblag and kmd. That answers my question.

Now the question we all want answered massclaim, yay or nay?

[animorpherv1]

I say

vote:No massclaim

. We don't know if anyone is really telling the truth or not, and that could set us up in a false state of security. That would be a bad thing to do. I don't see why anyone would want it.

[Porochaz]

5 votes to 3, no massclaim. Now to carry on Im going to do a reread on players to see who Ill be voting for...

mod can we get a votecount and the date of the deadline if there is one, thanks

[animorpherv1]

I got it for you (edited for my votes)


Drunken Piper 1 vote (Xtoxm)
kloud1516 (animorpherv1)

Not voting

Kmd4390
kloud1516
Zorblag
Jahudo
Drunken Piper
Porochaz

With 8 alive it will take 5 to lynch
Deadline December 11th, 4:30pm PST

Mass Claim Vote:

YES 3 vote: (KMD, kloud1516, Drunken Piper)
NO 4 votes: (porochaz, Jahudo, Zorblag, Xtoxm, animorpherv1)

[animorpherv1]

I edited fasrides' last post, not edited the post. Should have made that clear.

[Zorblag]

To ask animorpherv1 again as it seems to have been missed the first time:

What do you have to say about Wolframnhart's earlier assertions that he thought he had something effecting his vote today?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[kloud1516]

I posted this after Xtoxm had apparently hammered himself. I waited a while and the day didn't end so I was trying to make sure that we weren't assuming that we were really in twilight when we might not have been. If the day hadn't ended shortly after then there would have to have been some reason it hadn't; I was throwing out a couple guesses.

I did read the post in its entirety, and understand the overall point you were trying to make.

This being said, the quoting of farside-mod and trying to figure out whether or not the day was over was not a proponent of my reasoning for finding you suspicious

. This is about the only thing about this post that I didn't have a problem with, as the rules did say vote counts and votes would be misleading.

I'm confused on this, how can someone POSSIBLY find someone suspicious by them quoting the mod and trying to get more info? My thoughts, kloud is scum, trying to lynch Zorblag for a bad reason at this point.

vote:kloud1516

for the moment, still reading.

If you actually read over the discussion in its entirety and in the correct context, you will see that this reasoning for voting me is very flawed. I did

not

find him suspicious for quoting farside. In fact, if you go back and look over the discussion, you will find that I even said that I didn't have a problem with this part of his post, for he was simply trying to figure out whether or not we were in twilight or not. Furthermore, I found him suspicious for advocating to get more information was also repeatedly explained: I agreed that we needed to acquire as much information as possible, but I felt his stressing its importance was not sincere, and merely a means by which he could look more pro-town. I lay out my reasoning for this in the back-and-forth with the quoted sections I provided. I felt that with one hand, he was pushing to get more information, while with the other, he was providing content that strayed into WIFOM and speculation, which would not acquire in initial goal. If you cannot see this from the lengthy discussion we had, then perhaps you need to read back over it and not cherry-pick certain aspects of my case and take them out of context.

My thoughts: actually read the discussion.

[animorpherv1]

unvote kloud1516

[Jahudo]

I think I made the internets angry in that failed post above when I tried to make all the post references into urls. I'm sorry internets.

Anyway, here's my stream of thoughts. It rambles alot and some of my opinions I hold stronger than others so just ask for details but I'm not finished building a case yet and I still have yet to see what X2 is thinking so I may re-arrange my suspect list soon.

Porochaz

• Post 120 I felt he expressed honest opinions in the X claim and lynch day 1. Had a good reason to off him today as opposed to the future.
• Post 129 says he doesn’t think roleclaiming affects the game but he is strongly against massclaiming now?
• I thought he handled all the business about being suspected a “role cop” well by not reacting defensively or OMGUS. Brushed it off because it wasn’t an issue and his posts where he addresses that he made a joke look like a townie reaction.
• Post 205 good opinion giving on llama
• Post 218 and 221 good approach to dealing with Dukes it looks like poro is going for information rather than an easy target.

Kloud

• Post 143 gives his opinion on what he thinks X and poro are and what to do with them. This is well after the majority has given a sentiment. Kloud agrees that X is too much a threat to keep around, but disagrees with prevailing thought that poro is not scum day role cop. Prefers to look for role cop today. His defense from poro and llama seems honest.
• Post 193 says its time for actual analyzing players but this post is mostly to reiterate his defense for how he viewed poro and he now gives a more complete opinion that he thinks poro was joking instead of claiming.
• Post 198 good opinion giving.
• Post 362 feels like genuine town pro-activity. I don’t see any opportunism in the timing of his line of thinking, it seems more curious and an effect of reading.
• Post 419 looks like he’s paying attention to the game.

Kmd4390

• Post 246 looks like he’s not posting as he’s reading and I’m not sure which pages, maybe the first and most recent but not the middle, he has a good grasp on? His opinion of pacman looks insightful.
• Post 415 and 417 gives scum picks but doesn’t explain case, that’s not helpful. Saying poro is a top choice because he hasn’t been scrutinized isn’t a good reason.
• Post 425 still not very full analysis, many of the opinions feel like they’re taken from other players which may be a natural agreement or an attempt to gain concensus on who to limit the suspicion to. Doesn’t explain what poro flying under the radar means and why it’s something to note.
• Lots of posts where he’s asking questions, which is good.

Drunken Piper

• Didn’t rhyme or take a sip in post 174. Obv scumtell
• Post 213 best scumhunting question to Dukes so far.
• Post 280 vote zorblag because he listed 3 scum suspects but ignored why he was one of them: that Zorblag didn’t think he was scumhunting beyond the GW lurk meta. Seems to be ignoring it. Kmd listed 3 suspects in 247 but no mention? Why not?
• I still feel that he didn’t spend time visibly supporting the Dukes lynch or trying to question anything out of him. Listed a few suspicions near the end but did not go in depth on any posts of Dukes.
• Post 367 makes some good points that there’s unanswered questions about pacman but people unvoted and didn’t question his claim.
• Post 506 has good opinions on Zorblag and kloud exchanges. How he says zorblag is accommodating and where he wonders if kloud believes zorblag is scummy and why, look insightful and curious.

Animorpherv1 (wolframnhart)

• Post 46 pro town points for giving his opinion on the claimed SK early on without wanting to see what other people will do.
• Post 186 reactionary post to llama seems a bit over the top. Does not sit well with lack of addressing the main scumhunting of Dukes at the time.
• Post 208 seems good because its suspecting and questioning Dukes but feels generic and half-hearted attempt to join in.
• Post 265 makes it sound like he’s not going to jump on an opportunistic lynch of the lurker GW. This opinion comes after GW was replaced by an active kmd though so there’s no opportunism left to have.
• Post 414 odd that he lists pacman as pro-town just because of the benefit his claimed role could be to the town. Nothing about what wolf thinks of pacman the player. Also doesn’t explain his weariness of DP well.

Zorblag

• Post 30 answers question not directed at him and revotes from that person
• Post 60 wonders if poro is town daycop trying to hide his role. Not something you’d want to put in the minds of scum.
• Post 76 hints that x as jester and poro as scum rolecop would make sense then advocates both killing poro today, x tomorrow, and keeping him around which benefits scum.
• Post 78 says he never believed x was jester. Seems like post 76 was noncommittal when compared to this firmer stance.
• When Llama in post 83 says that people suggesting poro is scum are more likely to be scum, Zorblag gives his opinion in 98 that poro is not likely scum. FoS on Dukes seems weak.
• Post 182 gives a good reason for why more discussion would have been a good thing day 1 and I think this answers why he continued to talk at the end of day 1, and said day 2 that scum had rull range of options without a concern for how it would look. Good answer.
• Post 279 makes his opinion known that he thinks DP isn’t scumhunting much beyond GW meta and not much from DP to suggest he’s town. Since it’s the first of this opinion I saw, and the timing of it, I think it’s genuine.
• Post 334 explains his stance and attack on DP well but also backs off from sounding confrontational. Could be personality but I think it could be intentionally trying to sound nice when a more important lynch is going on.
• Post 458 looks like he’s trying to bring the group discussion back into the focus of who to lynch.

Xtoxm (pacman)

• My opinion on pacman still stands based on how I saw a lack of participation and scumhunting but I also attribute some of his difficulty to the meta I think, now hoping, I have right about him. I thought he strawmanned Dukes’ case because he was ignoring the argument where pacman didn’t acknowledge the SK day 1. But I also thought Dukes was misrepresenting posts and taking actions out of context to make them seem worse off, where I didn’t see much wrong in them. As a whole, pacman did not pay attention or focus much on what was important so he was not pro-town, but I was not convinced that he was acting scummy.
• pacman 181 doesn’t explain why vote and suspicions are weak. It was something DP first brought up, but pacman looks worse off for using at to vote.
• Post 409 don’t like his opinions, they don’t feel researched and don’t explain much. They could be gut reads but it doesn’t look like he’s reading carefully.
• Post 485 doesn’t give reason for his vote, which is bad.
• Post 498 I find it slightly odd that X knows his hider role will kill him if he hides behind scum, but pacman didn’t know that. If pacman was unfamiliar with the role then why was he speculating like he knew the role. Something doesn’t seem right.
• Post 504 actually doesn’t have a case on wolf, then votes for someone not in this game so he either is confused or not reading yet.
• Post 507 no reason provided for vote, I don’t like this in day 3

Here's the short version:

MORE TOWN VIBE

Porochaz - gives opinions, thought his reactions day 1 were normal. Constructive questioning of Dukes day 2.
Kloud - good analysis, looks like he's reading when he posts.
kmd - early behavior where he gave suspicions without presenting reasons.
DP - sonetimes lacks opinion and not enough participation in questioning Dukes.
Animorpherv1 - wolf often did not give strong opinions, not sure how caught up animorpherv is before giving opinions.
Zorblag - some early posts that could have been waiting for a safe consensus before he gave his own opinion.
Xtoxm - no reason to say pacman was town or X is acting town now.

MORE SCUM VIBE

FoS: Xtoxm

now is not the time to make assumptions without reason or vote without building a case.

Q's for X: Why do you think pacman was unsure about his role's abilities? Why do you think Dukes was lynched over pacman? Why do you think it was a evenly split suspicion between them and do you see scum influence there? Why do you think DP is scummy?

[Kmd4390]

Kmd4390

• Post 246 looks like he’s not posting as he’s reading and I’m not sure which pages, maybe the first and most recent but not the middle, he has a good grasp on? His opinion of pacman looks insightful.
• Post 415 and 417 gives scum picks but doesn’t explain case, that’s not helpful. Saying poro is a top choice because he hasn’t been scrutinized isn’t a good reason.
• Post 425 still not very full analysis, many of the opinions feel like they’re taken from other players which may be a natural agreement or an attempt to gain concensus on who to limit the suspicion to. Doesn’t explain what poro flying under the radar means and why it’s something to note.
• Lots of posts where he’s asking questions, which is good.

Yeah, I realize I slowed down for a week or two in most of the games I'm in. A lot of RL shit, but that's all been solved, so I'm here and not going anywhere.

I didn't give reasons in that post, but I feel that I have throughout the game.

My analysis post was in response to a request for everyone to post something like that. I just posted my thoughts. What you see is what you get.

Any player flying under the radar is dangerous. If they are scum, they aren't being pressured. Also, the massclaim conversation is a reason to suspect Porochaz. I don't think I've been very clear about that.

[farside22]

Vote count brought to you by Momcorp:
Mom love robots and has been controlling umm I mean building them over the last century

Drunken Piper 1 vote (Xtoxm)

Not voting

Kmd4390
kloud1516
Zorblag
Jahudo
animorpherv1
Drunken Piper
Porochaz

With 8 alive it will take 5 to lynch
Deadline December 11th, 4:30pm PST

Mass Claim Vote:

YES 3 vote: (KMD, kloud1516, Drunken Piper)
NO 5 votes: (porochaz, Jahudo, Zorblag, Xtoxm, animorpherv1 )

[Jahudo]

Also, the massclaim conversation is a reason to suspect Porochaz. I don't think I've been very clear about that.

Yes, one thing I want to ask poro is why he didn't care if anyone roleclaiming and saying it didn't affect the game day 1 but is against claiming now?