Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler: 1000-1100

I fell asleep last night.

Ok, so I decided to iso Black since I thought I would gain a lot from their interactions w/ Ausuka and Asri? It doesn't seem like I really have any support wrt iamveryhappy so I don't think there's a point reading again. I also chose Black because they're one of the few players that had an opinion of me this game and I just wanted to see if I could find enough context behind it.

92: RVS
207: I find myself nodding at a lot of these comments. I wonder if they could be interpreted as Black buddying (am I even using this word right?) HPE since it starts with reasons for suspicion and ends with a slight townread.
208 221 So this is where Black townreads Ausuka and the table is set for trouble to begin. I don't think it's unreasonable for Black to townread here, but I've talked previously about how disagreeing doesn't necessary mean opposing teams and so I don't know if agreeing makes someone automatically towny. I will say that Black said she agreed with Ausuka's thought process which I think is very town of Black.
264 Here Black responds to Asri doubting her read on Ausuka.
298 I think I missed this post when it was originally made. I really love this post because Black is really aware of the change from Asri's perspective and is confused by it. I personally wouldn't have brought it up as town and it's at this point in my reading that I know that Black is a really good player who from my perspective is leaning town.
478 This post in addition to 495 I interpret as town leaning because at the time there was no significant reason for Black to change their view of Ausuka. It could be I'm missing something because of how I'm only reading Black's posts. I think it's Black's genuine attempts to create a clear picture of what's going on.
585 So I asked for Black to read Italiano and Black returns with a scumread. It's interesting because basically right after this there's a lot of heat on Black and right before it there's a third vote on Cook? I don't think it's a distraction post or anything though because there were other spots in the game (like when Cook had 5 votes or something) where Black could have made any sort of move. In fact, they were very supportive of the wagon on Cook.
670 I really like how Black plays defense this game. I feel like if I were mafia I would be pushing harder on Italiano or Ausuka here but Black is very inquisitive and her interactions with Cook in later posts make a lot of sense to me. In particular, she comes across as kind of standoff-ish which tonally makes sense? I could just be so wrong with all of my reads here y'all.
750 I would have the same reaction as Black here to Asri's comments. I think if anything this game Black has been very coherent and explained their reasoning. She has been very consistent which makes the comment that Asri is seeing what they want to see exactly what town would say imo.
844 Does it make sense for Black to not have a read on Cook after interacting with Cook a few posts earlier? I think I buy that because at the time they mentioned how Cook was a null read and I don't think anything really happened besides some clarification of things between the two?
922 I don't get this post for two reasons. One, because what would the scumteam be then if it's both Cook and Asri? Doesn't Black have enough scumreads? Two, because Black mentioned how they thought Asri was probably annoying town earlier in the day (791) and there was no pressure on Asri at the time?
789 Lol'ed

Adding it all up, I really do think Black is town. There are multiple factors that I talked about but the sense I get from her posts is just that at the end of the day she has been trying to reduce the amount of chaos going on and has interacted in reasonable ways with too many people. Because of my opinion from this, I kind of think Asri is kind of town too?

Of course the first piece of content is a ISO wallpost. Pain

208/221 - Both of these posts are pretty scummy to me. 208's the kind of thing where I don't get how it'd lead to a mindmeld tr when it seems pretty NAI and 221's filler as hell
264 - Yeah that makes 208 look better
298 - Solid post
750 - Asri's literally voting for Black there lmao

I will say that Black said she agreed with Ausuka's thought process which I think is very town of Black.

Why is that very town of black?

Also @black, i forgot to bring this up earlier but why would this game have 2 scum?

It was the most "town" reasoning for townreading someone at that point in the game that I can think of. So it leans town to me. I'm not sure if that makes sense. My main distinction was that Black says she agrees with your thought process, which is different than agreeing with your conclusion. I think that's exactly what I was sort of trying to do in my entire post which is look to see if Black's actions make sense from a thought process standpoint.

Solid post

Like if you are this unsure about Ausuka why have you not engaged with them at all?

Like if you are this unsure about Ausuka why have you not engaged with them at all?

i don't always find engagement to be the easiest way to sort people

with ausuka

i hit submit early

but i was gonna say that i thought it would be more useful to wait and watch and see how things developed

i have found lately that with people i know well (not all i guess, but some) im actually generally better at reading them if i am more disconnected from them, like when reading from spec or something

I guess that's fair. I think I'm just not a fan of how you two have interacted with each other, which really is a lack of interaction. You are both in each other's "sus" category yet it doesn't seem like either of you are that interested in solving the other

I'll townbin Black for this, especially if Arsi flips green. Black's normally got that pretty laid back neutral vibe and if she's scum here then votes wise I don't see the point of setting this up as scum when there's like 2-3 other people with actual wagons going

Spoiler: 1100-1200

1101 - Wait did Italiano already claim? Can someone post the claims we already had? Anyways ok post but having read absolutely nothing from Italiano the section on him feels very
1117 - I haven't read any of happys posts this game but +town
1154 - Based also I feel called out
1157 - Huh?

Anyways I'm just gonna sheep Black here, pretty sure she's town and her reads are usually on point

VOTE: Cook

-Nameless

Hmm. This is interesting. If Cook is scum, it could clear this spot fmpov.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Day 1 Votecount 12

Cook (5):

ItalianoVD, Black, Hu Tao, Invisibility, Ausuka

Hu Tao (2):

fireisredsir, Cook

T3 (1):

Arsi Teroka

Something_Smart (1):

T3

iamveryhappy (1):

KatyKimFanClub

Ausuka (1):

iamveryhappy

Not Voting (2):

Something_Smart, Flower

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

There are (expired on 2023-06-20 13:00:00) remaining.

[ItalianoVD]

flower what are your opinions on me, not just looking at post 1117
take a break but
you may answer me later but just get it answered
well it's definitey better than 2120 kek

null town, haven't seen anything really townie or scummy from you from what I've read. I don't like your 1284 and 1313 but I think you'd be aware enough as scum to not be blatantly PR hunting like this in thread

-Nameless

You think so? Been hearing a lot of meta talk re: happy. What he wouldn’t do, what he would etc. and frankly I think that’s exactly why we shouldn’t disregard him.

Also there has been multiple attempts at pr hunting this game. Not sure how I feel about it.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh bulletproof rolecop claim from Cook? That’s like the most mafia role you can claim.

I’m not good with mechanics so I’m not gonna try to figure out anything out. I don’t think the claim changes much for me because of the fact it is a very scum-oriented role, both of them actually.

[ItalianoVD]

*Figure anything out. Ugh.

[KatyKimFanClub]

My bad, I didn't realize there were less than 48 hours left.

[ItalianoVD]

oh you haven't read that far back probably, nameless, but

"defensive" is a bit of a weird read of that post

agree and

i think that maybe my wagon knows something about me

i felt like mafia might be informed of my existence because of how strong i am

What I don’t get and didn’t get about this claim when it was made was how would mafia know about you and target you in game. Even if mafia had a strongman how would they know to target exactly you?

[Ausuka]

I am actually sort of conflicted by this because I feel like cook can be sorted by the presence of a vig shot or not. Like if there's no vig I can't see cook being a mafia bp rolecop and it's also hard to imagine her not being a bp rolecop because the claim is so weird & presumably the 'they know something about me' thing came from that angle

Intuitively it's possible she could exist with some kind of ninja + strongman combo but it does feel weird that if a watcher were to target BP rolecop, that has the potential to be kinda broken under a lot of circumstances, unless mafia have specific tools to counter it? And the reviewers for this one are koba and isis who I think tend to favour scum more and so it's like p difficult for me to

VOTE: t3 provisionally but i might revote idk this is a difficult situation

[Cook]

VOTE: t3

literally ANYTHING other than me

please

please

[Cook]

also i should be at 6 votes not 5 in the votecount if all of those people are voting me

@Mod

[Black]

Idk when I'll be able to post again. My power is out and so is my cell service

We should flip Cook or Ausuka today

[KatyKimFanClub]

What is Cook your roleblocker or something

Lol.
Honestly for this I think Ausuka is town (joke).

Reading Ausuka's comments, I think that she is town. There are a lot of instances where she is either just *really* good or definitely town. Like 706 is interesting because if she's just pretending to look for meta hints that's a great time to do that and it seems convincing. She goes back to meta-reading in 992 and mentioned that's why she thought I might have been scum because of a defined new player play pattern.

Also, I think the sentiment that Ausuka may have had (don't want to speak for her) but I think the growing discontent with Hu Tao and T3 may also have been for a similar reason to me which is that there are a decent amount of people (at this point) that I townread? So someone outside the mainstream might be a decent shout for a vote today.

[T3]

I have arrived

[T3]

Been busy, then traveling. Catching up now

[T3]

In other news, Katy is my strongest townread.

I think I agree with this actually

I think this also makes me want to townread Black. We’re thinking similar things at similar times

[T3]

I guess there’s a certain level of analysis that I’m used to expecting from SS that he’s not giving this game.

What level?

At least above nothingburger one-liners that don’t really say anything.

[T3]

T3 excellent elim simply because T3 hasn't even tried to say why not.

you said that “I don’t have a town drive to win.”

I’m not exactly sure how I can defend that.

[T3]

but then lately i was thinking that he's fallen off a bit and has felt more passive and reactive. the continued push on cook doesn't really feel that much like he's continuously trying to sort her based on new information, feels like he's kinda already decided

I noticed this too and filed it away into the back of my mind. When I saw that post from Invisibility I thought that Invis/Cook could be s/s, but I don’t fully remember why. It kind of reminded me of a game when I was scum and I was trying to bus a partner but the wagon ran out of steam, but I had to keep going with my scumread otherwise it would look weird.

[Flower]

VOTE: Cook

The "Scum know something about my wagon" only works if scum are Informed that you are a PR in which case even in a basically vanilla scum game you thinking 1-shot bp rolecop + 2x Mason vs Informed Mafia in 10/3 is somehow townsided makes negative sense and it also makes negative sense for scum to try to wagon a PR instead of just shooting you at night. At a bare minimum either the "Scum know something" or the Mason overreaction isn't genuine.

Ausuka I don't think it actually matters at this point if the game could be balanced around a town 1-shot bp rolecop because the explanation given after the claim is scummy af and she's probably not getting any useful results. I think Cook being a Mafia 1-shot bp rolecop is pretty likely

-Nameless

[Cook]

spare me at least one day i'll post my result and maybe i hit something interesting

this has been a shitshow of a first game back anyhow. i get scumread for playing the game normally. i'm run up to e-2 in rvs. i just seem to be a vote magnet no matter what game i'm playing

[Flower]

Also design-wise even if town 1-shot bp rolecop can be balanced how would you even get to the idea of it instead of something more normal? Like you'd start with

Town Rolecop

9x Vanilla Town

3x Mafia Goon

Then you have to give the Rolecop a scummy role to find so maybe Roleblocker or Ninja

Town Rolecop

9x Vanilla Town

Mafia Ninja

2x Mafia Goon

So to make the Ninja do stuff we'd then add a Watcher or Tracker

Town Rolecop

Town Tracker

8x Vanilla Town

Mafia Ninja

2x Mafia Goon

From here I don't see the logical progression to making the Rolecop 1-shot BP. There's no role or modifier there that makes me go "Oh yeah then make the rolecop 1-shot BP to make the setup make sense"

-Nameless

[Cook]

should just open every game i play with a disclaimer:

You will find me extremely scummy for no apparent reason. Whenever reading me, assume "scumread" is actually "null". You'll waste less of your time, and you'll waste less of my time. Thanks.

[Cook]

Also design-wise even if town 1-shot bp rolecop can be balanced how would you even get to the idea of it instead of something more normal? Like you'd start with

Town Rolecop

9x Vanilla Town

3x Mafia Goon

Then you have to give the Rolecop a scummy role to find so maybe Roleblocker or Ninja

Town Rolecop

9x Vanilla Town

Mafia Ninja

2x Mafia Goon

So to make the Ninja do stuff we'd then add a Watcher or Tracker

Town Rolecop

Town Tracker

8x Vanilla Town

Mafia Ninja

2x Mafia Goon

From here I don't see the logical progression to making the Rolecop 1-shot BP. There's no role or modifier there that makes me go "Oh yeah then make the rolecop 1-shot BP to make the setup make sense"

-Nameless

frankly i don't know and i don't care

i am once again reiterating

you are making a mistake

[sheepsaysmeep]

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[sheepsaysmeep]

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