i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
In post 98, Invisibility wrote:
I have nothing to say about mechanical stuff cuz I am bad at mechanical stuff
This is a town-leaning post. Scum would have liked the discussion devolving into mech-talk.
This is a stretch.....and didn't you just go right back into mech stuff as well?
Welcome doc! Don't believe i gave you a proper greeting.
As for me, i think you're doing me a disservice. In post 183, i am responding to invis' question which pertains to game mechanics, it would be rude if i didn't.
As for post 184, kowah's theory also has to be refuted in mechanical terms, and you'll see that i try not to emphasize the mech part over the practical part.
I see your concern however, and i'm fine elaborating.
Age of Empires Elo: 1500 something in DE, 1800 in HD
Formerly Dongempire
In post 402, Abnegation wrote:
alright, so here's where i'm at.
bingle/dr. drew/invis/kowah are all townleans of various degrees and i wouldn't vote them today.
black is a bit of a complicated read. i don't find her scummy, but i also know she's good at scum and i don't expect scum!her to play in a scummy way. might be better to give this one some time.
don is null because i'm too lazy to read his wallposting. appearance is null due to lack of content.
i'm fine with pc wagon.
VOTE: political clout
e-2.
also, mech question. is there a benefit to having people claim at e-1/intent in this setup?
Hey! That's rude.
On the other hand, i'm way more spammy this game than i normally am. If you saw my usual posts where the texts take up half the screen, i think you would vomit.
Age of Empires Elo: 1500 something in DE, 1800 in HD
Formerly Dongempire
In post 426, Donempire wrote:
As for post 184, kowah's theory also has to be refuted in mechanical terms, and you'll see that i try not to emphasize the mech part over the practical part.
I see your concern however, and i'm fine elaborating.
did this help you solve or was it more of a clarifying thing
'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo
you don't gotta get the specific posts if you don't wanna but can you summarize why you thought this?
I liked his post 226 for a few reasons. I explained that i did warn kowah, but the second part of his question is not without merit. Of course, assuming comes naturally while scumhunting since people don't act in predetermined ways, and like abne did posts can be interpreted differently; but i feel the question was the extent of my assumptions and not me assuming things in itself, which i felt was a good question considering my post he was responding to had a lot of unfounded assumptions. I also agree with his comment on inconsistency, as i explained to abne we also have to keep in mind what can be explained with malice, and what can be explained simply with inexperience.
The read itself was mostly gut from a few of his other posts as well, but these ones were the ones i wanted to highlight. It wasn't that strong of a read though.
Age of Empires Elo: 1500 something in DE, 1800 in HD
Formerly Dongempire
In post 408, Donempire wrote:
As for jason, he replaced out, so any reads i would have had for his spot (which wasn't comprehensive) are irrelevant.
You're saying you won't analyze his behavior because he's gone? I get that Drew can't answer for him, but we at least know what he did and can apply that knowledge.
In post 420, Donempire wrote:
Can you point out where JW did that? I'm isoing him and i couldn't find what you're talking about.
In post 254, Bingle wrote:
Not in as many words. JW expressed a reason why a doc might choose to target me based on me being a neighbor, which positively influences the odds that a doc might target me based on being a neighbor. I think a doc targeting me based on anything other than their read on my slot would be silly.
In post 28, JasonWazza wrote:
Well any seeking neighbor, Pretender or otherwise targets Bingle, as you noted, a kill would make sense to go towards Bingle, so a Doctor probably needs to go there as well, and the way it was claimed means it could just be scum trying to justify targeting the kill by saying "i am targeting randomly" so Roleblock and Tracker could also make sense heading to Bingle.
This is what I was referencing, and when I pushed at it the response was "That's not what I think should be done, but what someone else might think should be done." which does not at all match the presentation of the post in my eyes.
In post 386, Abnegation wrote:
or why they think a kill is headed there? or why bingle would claim that to supposedly get out of being seen killing? getting tracked to the nk is sus whether you've claimed or not.
roleblocker should only go there if they think bingle is scum.
so this is simultaneously implying that bingle is likely to get nightkilled (despite their role being kind of useless) and also that their claim is sus enough that it makes sense to roleblock them. idk if that's directly contradictory but it's odd.
this seems to continue in his later posts. interested to see how this plays out in later pages.
In post 381, Invisibility wrote:
like this feels so much like PC is dipping their toe in the water, asking everyone what they think of Black so that they can know how safe it is to make this push. This behavior is made even scummier since PC isn't voting Black
Honestly I don't get this feeling from the PC/Black interaction as much as the PC/me interactions. I think acknowledging that you may be tunneled is a thing that isn't particularly scum indicative.
With that said, 24 hours to deadline and no townread there means I'm totally down for a PC lim.
In post 402, Abnegation wrote:
alright, so here's where i'm at.
bingle/dr. drew/invis/kowah are all townleans of various degrees and i wouldn't vote them today.
Any particulars you can share on the Drew townlean, esp since you were picking up what I was putting down about JW's push just not making any sense?
I don't really hate anything Drew's done, but I also don't see anything super towny.
In post 402, Abnegation wrote:
alright, so here's where i'm at.
bingle/dr. drew/invis/kowah are all townleans of various degrees and i wouldn't vote them today.
Any particulars you can share on the Drew townlean, esp since you were picking up what I was putting down about JW's push just not making any sense?
I don't really hate anything Drew's done, but I also don't see anything super towny.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
@bingle - since you were talking about meta from newbie 2118 earlier, what's your take on jason's mech talk that game? i'm not telling you to go re-read the whole thing if you don't want to, but i would be interested to hear if you think it's relevant or changes anything from a meta perspective. this post is the one that comes to mind for me. it's also got the aiming of power roles that you were talking about earlier.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
In post 402, Abnegation wrote:
alright, so here's where i'm at.
bingle/dr. drew/invis/kowah are all townleans of various degrees and i wouldn't vote them today.
Any particulars you can share on the Drew townlean, esp since you were picking up what I was putting down about JW's push just not making any sense?
I don't really hate anything Drew's done, but I also don't see anything super towny.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
In post 443, Abnegation wrote:
@bingle - since you were talking about meta from newbie 2118 earlier, what's your take on jason's mech talk that game? i'm not telling you to go re-read the whole thing if you don't want to, but i would be interested to hear if you think it's relevant or changes anything from a meta perspective. this post is the one that comes to mind for me. it's also got the aiming of power roles that you were talking about earlier.
Reading that post in Isolation makes me think it's an improper application of a Nash equilibrium, but I'd have to read for context.
It is true enough to say that a Doc should always target an outed investigative role. The idea that they shouldn't is part of the aforementioned Nash equilibrium concept where it is sometimes optimal to make a suboptimal choice to subvert the opponent always making the optimal choice. (In this case, doc should always target tracker which means that scum shouldn't target tracker and should go doc hunting, which means that doc should maybe target someone who looks doccish like 5% of the time so that scum might instead choose to target the tracker somewhere like 2% of the time which adjusts up and down based on both parties' understanding of the equilibrium. It's a rather fascinating concept, actually.) JW is also just flat wrong in that a tracker poses no threat to scum.
In post 443, Abnegation wrote:
@bingle - since you were talking about meta from newbie 2118 earlier, what's your take on jason's mech talk that game? i'm not telling you to go re-read the whole thing if you don't want to, but i would be interested to hear if you think it's relevant or changes anything from a meta perspective. this post is the one that comes to mind for me. it's also got the aiming of power roles that you were talking about earlier.
Reading that post in Isolation makes me think it's an improper application of a Nash equilibrium, but I'd have to read for context.
It is true enough to say that a Doc should always target an outed investigative role. The idea that they shouldn't is part of the aforementioned Nash equilibrium concept where it is sometimes optimal to make a suboptimal choice to subvert the opponent always making the optimal choice. (In this case, doc should always target tracker which means that scum shouldn't target tracker and should go doc hunting, which means that doc should maybe target someone who looks doccish like 5% of the time so that scum might instead choose to target the tracker somewhere like 2% of the time which adjusts up and down based on both parties' understanding of the equilibrium. It's a rather fascinating concept, actually.) JW is also just flat wrong in that a tracker poses no threat to scum.
there is some...interesting follow-up discussion on pages 21 and 22 of that game.
the reason i brought it up is that, as much as i'd like to scumread jason's scummy mech spec this game, i don't know if i can really take that position when i consider previous games. i feel like maybe i'm overrelying on meta but idk.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
I think I said as much, but I can move to PC if I need to as well.
'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo
In post 414, Abnegation wrote:
@don - your reasons to vote kowah are fair, i just disagree with them. i don't think it's lack of conviction in a no-execution plan that's causing them to abandon the idea and vote people anyway. my impression of their posting is that they see their plan is highly unlikely to go anywhere and find it pointless to keep pressing the issue. to me, that's a plausible mindset to have as town. kowah, feel free to correct me on any of that if i've misread your posting.
No correction needed, I'm nearly 100% sure I've said something like this already this game.
Invisibility is actually AWESOME!
