Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[OhGodMyLife]

BM's attack on Xyl is stupid, if that didn't come across clearly enough in my criticism of Sir T for following BM in this regard.

Go go gadget quadruple post.

[Ectomancer]

unvote

<ponders>

[farside22]

OGML: Why did you vote for tubby then go back and read and make a case against Sir T? Did you notice the wagon on tubby was mostly for his lurking and lack of context is that vote worthy in your opinion?

[tubby216]

Ok so upon re-read and a little incentive due to OMUGUS here’s my case on OGML

Page 10

Yos starts his lurker hunt,, good Idea I would do it too the imediatley after OGML says this

i am supremely disturbed by yos' lurkerhunt

Then I said this,,

@ yos
i have posted i have been reading i have nothing of substance to post, untill something pops up that i need to adress i prefer to stay out of the way

the ogml says this

^^^ Now THERE'S a lurker who warrants some real pressure

,,, odd huh just a a lil while ago he was all happy with the “scum” he found and lurkers to be of little or no consequence now he is pressuring me??? How odd

Then right after Seraphim,Hoopla, and SensFan vote for me right after another with little or no comment,, I find that odd as well then Yos come in with this a good case post #246
Next is militant with post 248 nice work

Then ogml has this to say

Unvote, Vote: Tubby

This bandwagon has some legs.

you wanna explain what happened to the scum you found?? I mean seriously what the hell

granted i diddn't notice but militant already made this same case,, wich you OGML have refused to answer ,, hoopla even unvoted and voted you wanting to know the case on SIR T and yet you refuse cause you seem to think it is far better to lynch me on policy then spend time hunting scum??? seriously what the hell??

so here is what i think:
townies,, Yos, BM, Hoopla, Militant, ecto, and tubby

null- sensfan, curios karmadog,farside22, sir t,incognito,natarisha

anti town, ogml,seraphim, puta,killa seven


so there is my thoughts

That’s where I first btought it up,, But puta was still lurkin and bein an ass so my vote went to puta,,,

Then after the v/la OGML comes in and says this

There isn't much to report on pages 15 and 16 except Tubby has stopped lurking and is looking sane again.

Putta Putta, well... that is the sort of D1 bandwagon, which inevitably takes place in almost every game I play, and I am always uncomfortable with it, and I always announce, that I think that person is town, so let's get this out of the way:

I think Putta Putta is giving out null tells at the moment. The reasoning being, I don't see either town OR scum playing the way Putta Putta is playing at the moment. Horrible play. Has anyone played before with Putta? Is this normal for him (her?)?

This?? This is how you tie me to Sir T? come on the only thing connecting me to Sir T is that there is nothing to connect us together,,
So my question to you is, Grasp at straws much??

Unvote, Vote: tubby216

K7 gets a meta pass from me for lurking, for now.

Tubby seems to have tried to scare people off his wagon with this weirdly vague softclaim-type thing, which was really scummy but got swamped by gimbo puta's shenanigans.

Did I used to date your sister?? What’s with all the hate??

As far as I can tell puta puta aka gimbo just got wagoned to a claim in every game he was in and claimed some kind of town power. He's a dick. Guess we'll need to hear from his replacement, but he still looks like a good lynch, or at least righteous vig material.

Reading up today.

Really are you trying to be sarcastic or did you get confused,, PP the waste of space claimed cop, so he looks like a good lynch? Or even vig kill material, how you figure?? Atleast wait until we hear from his replacement,, impatient much??

So congradulation OGML you have won my vote,

vote OGML

oh yah and answer farside too while your at it,

BM, Xyl thoughts??

[Sir Tornado]

This is what originally drew my attention and vote. His reason for the FoS is total bull, and the fact that he FoSes when he hasn't got a vote out is something I find really scummy, in that noncomittal, don't want to leave a paper trail sort of way.

It wasn't a "total bull" reason. Scum are more likely to see traps where none exist because they are more likely to be more suspicious and paranoid than townies about traps.

Defends his move onto the Hoopla wagon in 157 based on a total falsehood, then corrects himslf in 158 regarding the facts but seemingly doesn't think this should change his defense in the slightest. Also, note this line from 157:

This is patently untrue. Only the last line of my post 157 was based on the falsehood (which I corrected in my next post). The rest is still valid.

Its so convenient for scum when someone doesn't answer a query of theirs, they get to just sit around doing nothing all day long except repeating that they're waiting for something.

I think I established later that I was too busy at that time?

Unabashed buddying up to CKD.

You obviously don't know I make comments like this frequently in mafia games. Also, I'll keep this in mind whenever you say you think someone is town later on.

This is an incredibly ridiculous reason to attack BM.

How on earth can you view that as an attack? I of course had no idea whether BM posts more smileys as townie or scum, I just remember he used to do a lot of that some time ago. I was trying to see if he would consciously put more smileys in his posts after that -- which he didn't.

Wow what an awesome excuse for scummy play, you're "trying to be ambiguous" so you don't get nightkilled. I call shenanigans.

Perhaps you want to see my last 3-4 games?

Wait wait wait, didn't you just make a sidelong attack on BM yourself for not using enough smileys? I don't think there can be anything more utter crap than that, yet here you go attacking people who attack BM. Thats really strange.

See above about the "attack".

You explained it based on a false premise, then you quickly corrected yourself in regards to the premise but did not correct your explanation.

Again, see (a bit more) above.

It should be clear by now that Sir T and tubby216 are scum together.

So... are you saying it did not happen like that on page 15 and 16? How would you describe events on page 15/16 in a single post then?

[Xylthixlm]

Oh wow, that's a pretty thorough OMGUS. No townie points to tubby216 for making it. I especially like the implication that OGML is calling tubby scummy because he has a personal grudge; it sounds like tubby isn't even considering scumhunting as a possibility? I think I need to go find the "weirdly vague softclaim-type thing" OGML says tubby216 made.

An unrelated point for my future reference: I really don't like the idea of someone playing deliberately ambiguous; it's bad for the town. "I'm playing badly because I don't want to be night killed" (or whatever SirT said) doesn't sit very well with me.

[Sir Tornado]

"I'm playing badly because I don't want to be night killed"

I never said I was playing "badly". I just meant that I wasn't trying to be "obviously" townie which I usually am (regardless of my role) early on in the game.

[tubby216]

@Xyl,
this is what i think he meant

nope still don't,,, there is nothing of substance to be had anywhere,, so yah lynch me if you want its ok by me although i would sugest looking elsewhere

This^^

Yeah, I'd carry a Tubby lynch through. Strategic lurking, which is what tubby is doing, is either awful town play or scum tactics to avoid a read, both of which are lynchable offenses.

what are you talkin about??

I'm allvwing this continue beacuse:

1) i think its funny
2) its telling more about everyone else in the game,
3) i highly doubt i will get lynched today but if i do thats ok to i just hope everyone is paying attention

And this^^ I think

[Shanba]

OGML's reasons for voting Sir T do not accurately correspond to my reasons for being suspicious of him. I'm losing interest in the seraphim wagon (only one post of his really sticks out as being scummy, the rest give me a fairly decent impression. So,

Unvote

.

I dislike the Tubbywagon, and I don't really want to push Sir T yet (partially because I'm somewhat lazy, partially because I don't think I have a strong enough read yet and partially because I want to see what he does next before pushing another attack on him and distracting him into playing defence.)

In the interests of exploring new, and possibly fresher pastures,

Vote: Natirasha

pending meta investigation of his playstyle.

[Xylthixlm]

"I'm playing badly because I don't want to be night killed"

I never said I was playing "badly". I just meant that I wasn't trying to be "obviously" townie which I usually am (regardless of my role) early on in the game.

Follow along.

You're obviously townie...
...so the town is less likely to lynch you...
...so the town is less likely to lynch an innocent player...
...so the town is more likely to lynch scum.

Therefore, not playing obviously townie lowers the town's chances of lynching scum, and therefore lowers the town's chances of winning. What do you call that? I call it bad play.

[Sir Tornado]

Finally, finally votes for Seraphim, I guess he felt that he had left enough "waiting for your answer" posts to point back to later if this vote was ever questioned.

Ok, but you fail to mention that I unvoted Seraphim on that very page. So, enlighten me, why would I trying to develop a false and weak reasoning to vote Seraphim for 15 pages, vote him (so that I could have enough "left him questions" posts later on to point to) and then vote someone else on the same page? No one actually questioned that vote between me voting him and unvoting him either, so how does that fit into your theory?

[Sir Tornado]

Therefore, not playing obviously townie lowers the town's chances of lynching scum, and therefore lowers the town's chances of winning. What do you call that? I call it bad play.

Not badly enough to get myself lynched...

An unrelated point for my future reference: I really don't like the idea of someone playing deliberately ambiguous; it's bad for the town. "I'm playing badly because I don't want to be night killed" (or whatever SirT said) doesn't sit very well with me.

But wait, doesn't that depend on my alignment? I mean, if I am scum, wouldn't me playing badly be advantageous to the town? Do you KNOW I am town?

[Xylthixlm]

If you're scum, it's good play. If you're town, it's bad play. It's very easy for scum to convince themselves to do something that benefits scum by rationalizing "I would have done that even if I was town", so I take anything that helps scum more than town as a scumtell regardless of excuses.

I'm not saying you're scum, but it is a data point I'm considering.

[Xylthixlm]

In my experience, scum often go to the gallows convinced that the case against them is bullshit and they would have done the exact same thing as town.

The human mind has an extraordinary capacity for self-deception.

[Sir Tornado]

If you're scum, it's good play. If you're town, it's bad play.

How is it a good play if you are scum? Didn't your scenario end up with the player getting lynched?

Or did you mean good play for the town?

In my experience, scum often go to the gallows convinced that the case against them is bullshit and they would have done the exact same thing as town.

lol

[Xylthixlm]

I'm assuming that if you're scum, playing "obviously townie" is not an option; the choices are "deliberately ambiguous" and "obviously scum".

I'm sure you can work out the results with those two as options.

[Sir Tornado]

I'm assuming that if you're scum, playing "obviously townie" is not an option

It certainly is on D1. Not the entire game perhaps.

[The Fonz]

OhGodMyLife (3) - Hoopla, farside22, tubby216
Puta Puta (2): xyzzy, Der Hammer
Tubby216 (1): SensFan
Xylthixlm (1): Battle Mage, Sir Tornado
Sir Tornado (1): OhGodMyLife
Killa Seven (1): iamausername
Natirasha (1): Shanba

not voting: Killa Seven, skitzer, curiouskarmadog, militant, (Puta Puta), Xylthixlm, tubby216, Natirasha, Seraphim, vollkan, Yosarian2, Ectomancer

[The Fonz]

Prodding Der Hammer and SensFan

[Yosarian2]

Sir T: I'm still not getting how you seem to be saying that there's some kind of option where you can just choose to act town, and you just decided not to take that option this game. Why would anyone do that?

[OhGodMyLife]

OGML: Why did you vote for tubby then go back and read and make a case against Sir T? Did you notice the wagon on tubby was mostly for his lurking and lack of context is that vote worthy in your opinion?

I voted tubby for the softclaim, which I find to be very scummy. After catching up and putting together my thoughts on Sir T I found the weight of evidence against him to be heavier. Tubby's lurking and "lack of context" (by which I assume you mean lack of meaningful contribution) is, yes, also vote worthy.

---

Tubby:

This?? This is how you tie me to Sir T? come on the only thing connecting me to Sir T is that there is nothing to connect us together,,
So my question to you is, Grasp at straws much??

You seem to have gotten really, really worked up over my statement that I see a connection between you and Sir T. This only makes it more likely in my eyes.

Did I used to date your sister?? What’s with all the hate??

Do you have anything game related to say? I make a point about an aspect of your play I found to be scummy, and you counterattack by claiming I made things personal. Thats just stupid.

BM, Xyl thoughts??

What about BM and Xyl make their opinions on your post more valuable than anybody else?

---

This is the entirety of tubby's tactic to get the wagon off of himself, which to me looks like a softclaim in the form of a threat, like "you don't want to do that because I might be a town power role."

nope still don't,,, there is nothing of substance to be had anywhere,, so yah lynch me if you want its ok by me although i would sugest looking elsewhere

3) i highly doubt i will get lynched today but if i do thats ok to i just hope everyone is paying attention

dear hoopla,

all will be revealed, just have faith,,,

no but i assure you yos all will be revealed soon

prior to my lynch captain impatience

---

You obviously don't know I make comments like this frequently in mafia games. Also, I'll keep this in mind whenever you say you think someone is town later on.

Saying you think someone is town is a far cry from calling their attack on another player "very righteous and passionate" and using that as the basis for your conclusion.

You're defending yourself almost entirely through meta, and yet you state that you've deliberately changed your meta in this game to seem "more ambiguous," also known as more anti-town. I agree with Xyl on the theory aspect of the debate you two have been having about it, and I think using that in your own defense here in this game makes you leagues more likely to be scum.

[OhGodMyLife]

Finally, finally votes for Seraphim, I guess he felt that he had left enough "waiting for your answer" posts to point back to later if this vote was ever questioned.

Ok, but you fail to mention that I unvoted Seraphim on that very page. So, enlighten me, why would I trying to develop a false and weak reasoning to vote Seraphim for 15 pages, vote him (so that I could have enough "left him questions" posts later on to point to) and then vote someone else on the same page? No one actually questioned that vote between me voting him and unvoting him either, so how does that fit into your theory?

I believe I mentioned how strange it was that, after working over the course of a solid number of posts to lay the groundwork for a Seraphim vote, you dropped it altogether to play follow the leader with BM in his inane attack on Xyl. This added to the whole picture. And how does no one questioning the vote then make my argument about it now invalid in any way?

[Xylthixlm]

vote: killa seven

for not actually answering my questions from post 543.

[tubby216]

Tubby:

This?? This is how you tie me to Sir T? come on the only thing connecting me to Sir T is that there is nothing to connect us together,,
So my question to you is, Grasp at straws much??

You seem to have gotten really, really worked up over my statement that I see a connection between you and Sir T. This only makes it more likely in my eyes.

i pointed it out because its weak and flawed,, oh sure you can come back and see look look he is makin a big deal out of it he fell right into my scum trap wich is getting in WIFOM but i'm sorry but i am throwin the BS flagg,,

Did I used to date your sister?? What’s with all the hate??

Do you have anything game related to say? I make a point about an aspect of your play I found to be scummy, and you counterattack by claiming I made things personal. Thats just stupid.

This was meant to be humor i susposed i failed,,, it was a stupid joke

BM, Xyl thoughts??

What about BM and Xyl make their opinions on your post more valuable than anybody else?

Because BM and Xyl seemed to me to be lost in there own lil debate at the time and not really hunting any scum. So i figured by asking for thier thoughts perhaps they would more involved

This is the entirety of tubby's tactic to get the wagon off of himself, which to me looks like a softclaim in the form of a threat, like "you don't want to do that because I might be a town power role."

nope still don't,,, there is nothing of substance to be had anywhere,, so yah lynch me if you want its ok by me although i would sugest looking elsewhere

3) i highly doubt i will get lynched today but if i do thats ok to i just hope everyone is paying attention

dear hoopla,

all will be revealed, just have faith,,,

no but i assure you yos all will be revealed soon

prior to my lynch captain impatience

what if i have a power role what then?? does that make you a scum hunter or a role fisher??

[farside22]

I voted tubby for the softclaim, which I find to be very scummy. After catching up and putting together my thoughts on Sir T I found the weight of evidence against him to be heavier. Tubby's lurking and "lack of context" (by which I assume you mean lack of meaningful contribution) is, yes, also vote worthy.

Then why did you say you were against a lurker lynch then a few post later vote for tubby for lurkering?