Open 100 - F + E x 2 + TOG OVER! before 712

[Doc]

But Tenchi wasn't on the verge of being lynched! And if he would've been, he would've been asked to claim! At least you have to realize how pointing out that someone is more or less likely to be a mason is anti-town.

vote count

popsofctown (3): peter?, soveliss, doc
tenchi (2): popsofctown, wall-e
soveliss (2): budja, tenchi
doc (1): seraphim
budja (1): zazier

not voting: hp[leaves], sekinj, blueheaven

[popsofctown]

Doh.... i forgot about L-1 claiming... Doc is right, i guess i shouldn't have done that.

Right now my position is still that Tenchi is the scummiest player in the game. Some have said maybe he always plays like scummy town, but like i've said before i don't see how we're going to read him D2, D3.. if he plays like scummy town and every bad thing he does gets a pass from that.

But i realize right now it's bad to have tunnel vision, especially in a game like this. It's best to expose multiple players D1, so the two scum factions possibly nightkill off the players that seem suspicious.

I'm going to reread this thread and pick some other players to question.

[popsofctown]

Pops made a comment on me being a mason. I feel its like scum group A sending a message to scum group B. For what purpose, I don't know. But I feel that it's VERY NOT TOWNIE to expose who is mason and who isn't.

Actually he said.

By the by, i notice he's implied he's not mason..... best worst-case scenario..

I believe he is saying you are not mason.

*****SPACE AND TIME*****

UNVOTE

Vote Pops

After going back rereading Pops comments I am finding him more suspicious now than Tenchi. Pops constant unvoting and revoting of Tenchi caught my eye as awkward. By voting for hime once you tell us your suspicions. The only reason I can think you keep doing it, is to try and remind us it's Tenchi we are supposed to be voting.

Another thing slightly off is Pops statement about Tenchi not being a Mason. If you think he might not be the mason you should keep that to yourself. There is no reason to narrow down possible choices for mason unless you are mafia trying to pick them off.

This is moderately suspicious. Why didn't you comment on my mason exposure in the earlier post? You clarify, but don't comment on it. I'm suspicious of people who are delayed to give their own opinion.

[Soveliss]

In that first quote I was just making sure Tenchi read what you wrote correctly.

In the second quote I was building my case for you. Two different posts with two different intentions.

[popsofctown]

why didn't you comment on it at that earlier time?

[Soveliss]

Like I said in my post. I went back and reviewed your and Tenchi's posts. After doing this I viewed you as being more deserving, for the reasons I stated. One of these reasons was you bring up that Tenchi could not be mason.

[Tenchi]

Some notes and answers because I'm tired of quoting too many things:

+ I will lay off the CAPS LOCK. But I will use it once in a while. It's in my DNA.
+ REGARDING PETER: He made a similar mistake Soveliss did -- he was updated on my case but was not updated on other issues this time on the Mod's response. Although I still feel Soveliss made a graver mistake by missing 2-3 posts regarding why town/scum would want to know why a reveal in MO would be advantageous or not.
+ MORE REGARDING PETER: He posted this huge case against me when I said I was going to STFU. Could be coincidence or could be scum hoping I'd be absent so that no one would defend me.
+ REGARDING POPS: He's ready to leave his "masonism" "up in the air" but is ready to speculate on mine.
+ REGARDING ZAZIER's QUESTION ON POST 116: SEE TIMELINE HERE. I saw no other suspicious behavior except from HP missing from the thread AT THAT MOMENT. Then Soveliss came along...
+ REGARDING IF/WHEN: It was confusing I admit. I mean that if their suspicions was hinged on me being townie, then yes my lynch would be ok. But if you guys think I'm scum and you have no other leads aside from that

if I turn up scum

then that would be useless. But since I'm town I shouldn't have used the word IF. I just creates more confusion on my alignment. So it was a stupid mistake/assumption on my part.
+ REGARDING LYNCHING ON MY BIRTHDAY: I was actually having fun in my posts for the first time in this game.
+ REGARDING POST 124: You need to let me have a life on my birthday. :-p And I did! Regardless, I was still back to write some good stuff later that day.
+ REGARDING BUDJA: I wish he'd share more of his suspicions more. If he wants us to look at other players, then he should have seen/supported cases on other players by now.
+ DOC ON HP BEING SEASONED: Point made. I'd rather not go there as HP's post is just full of circular logic. Not to mention we have more interesting discussions now.
+ QUESTION FOR DOC: Why is a playstyle argument relevant? What do you mean by that?
+ REGARDING USING METAS: It is against my better judgement. There is a lot more going on a single thread with lots of information. I'd rather rely on that than using cases that look similar but involve different people/playstyles and personalities. (Or maybe it is just a bias on my part.) Not to mention mafia is originally played without metas, so I'd rather keep it that way. Unless metas are acceptable here in mafiascum culture, then go ahead and use it. But it's not going to have too much weight (if any at all) on my book.
+ FINALLY QUOTES:

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

Confirm Vote: Soveliss

And then:

unvote

Vote: Tenchi

....
All of his other actions are very scummy. "Can you not lynch me while i refuse to defend myself KTHXBYE". At this point, the only reason i can doubt that he's scum is that he seems like his daytalk friend would be able to coach him into better action than that.
...

For blowing out of proportion my message

on taking a break from the game and having fun in my birthday

into

being unhelpful by refusing to defend myself

. I NEVER SAID I WILL STOP DEFENDING MYSELF. AND I NEVER DID.

+ ON POPS REMOVING HIS TUNNEL VISION: OMG FINALLY!

Huge FoS still on POPS

Vote: Pops

(At this point I'm voting Pops or Soveliss.)

[Budja]

OK, I think you deserve to actually hear my other suspicions.

Soveliss did appear to be looking for a lynch by hopping onto potentual bandwagons with little explanation.

Pops has seemed to be a little overeager to lynch Tenchi but it is hard to tell if this is scummy because his points are generally valid and it is not hard to build a case against Tenchi. I do not believe the mason speculation was particularly scummy in the way it was mentioned, it was weak speculation and proved nothing. However I do believe we should not help the scum find the masons so it is best not to speculate as had been said before.
I am still neutral on Pops at this time.

That is my opinion so far. It is hard to find scumtells with Tenchi making errors all over the place for people to use. That is why I said we should maybe focus less on him. I'll put my money where my mouth is and try and scum-hunt a bit more.

[popsofctown]

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

Confirm Vote: Soveliss

Yes, yes you did refuse to defend yourself. Telling us that you will STFU and leaving us to decide whether to lynch you is saying that you aren't going to defend yourself.
Why do you go and say "no i didn't say that" when you did? It just makes my life harder because i have to dig up the quote where you said it.

[popsofctown]

@Budja (he had a simaltaneous post)(From my refresh perspective)
I promise not to speculate on anyone's masondom anymore, i realize now for our purposes masons can just claim at L-1. And I'm also going to try and shift focus (maybe i can scumhunt tomorrow), and scumhunt in other places.

If anyone thinks my aggression on Tenchi is strange, it was provoked by
a. His caps lock and diction bothers the crap out of me
b. Korts saying it was suspicious of me to consider (at least, out loud) that I'm possibly wrong. I wanted to dissolve anyone thinking that I'm lynching him in a dissociated manner. I think he's scum right now, and if he is a mislynch i take whatever responsibility that entails.

[Tenchi]

Soveliss soveliss soveliss

1. I NEVER REFUSED TO DEFEND MYSELF. This thread is peppered with me defending me.
2. Me shutting up means A. I'm taking a break and B. Actually not overposting in the thread by repeating the same explanation over and over again. C. Letting you guys discuss among yourslves instead of me getting into the middle of everything.
3. LOL You "dug up" a quote, which I quoted and you should have obviously read. How ridiculous is that. Don't make us think you are doing work when in fact you aren't.

[Tenchi]

EBWOP: Pops pops pops

[popsofctown]

Telling us to make the lynch without any further input from you is not refusing to defend yourself?
Law of Syllogism

Someone who is not posting is not defending themselves.
Tenchi said he would no longer be posting. [see above quote]
Therefore, Tenchi said he would no longer be defending himself.

Which of the first two statements is untrue Tenchi? (the third statement is the Law of Syllogism itself, that is proven by Socrates)

[Tenchi]

So what you are saying that I'm very unhelpful by refusing to defend myself. Is this what you are driving at?

[Tenchi]

FLAW:

Someone who is not posting is not defending themselves.
Tenchi said he would no longer be posting. [see above quote]

<--- Is this really what I meant? Or is this what you want to see? What did I actually do Pops? And what was my explanation for saying the quote?

Therefore, Tenchi said he would no longer be defending himself.

[Tenchi]

Your logic is flawed Pops. And your continued push on my case with increasingly BS cases covered with glitter ((mis)using the Law of Transitivity) grows even more heavily suspicious.

[sekinj]

Sekinj, what in both BH and Tenchi's play do you see as classical newbies? What is different from Pops's play? What do you think of BH and Tenchi?
Also, does this classical newbie play 'defence' of Tenchi still count while he has said that he isn't a newbie?

i already said what I thought of BH and tenchi. They are scummy, but I'm marking it up to newbieness right now. bh asked a very newbie question, and tenchi is giving a very newbie "defense". and newbies will about 50% of the time claim they aren't, so *shrug* I'll make my own judgement on someone's play instead of trusting what they say. Right now I think pops is more scummy, but will keep an eye on the other two.

[Tenchi]

I'm not new to the game. I'm just new to this board-only games. Most of these games are apparently more serious and very critical when it comes to every word I say. Most of the games on I have played on the other hand rely on quick instinct (lots of deadlines) and emotion (we roleplay, and it is generally accepted), sometimes even memory, since we don't usually have a huge transcript of what everybody is saying.

Also, my other games allow me to have private conversations with individuals, which is absent from this game -- another deviation from what I usually do. Individual conversations add a layer of information gathering for townies (and scum) since you get to ask who suspects who without exposing it to the whole crowd.

Also to note: I have never been successful as townie, only in smaller games when I was the cop. So, being exposed in a board only game, practically blind to everything else, while being attacked by different people, while having no second opinion on what I should say or do is new for me. What I'm missing from my old games now is a means to ask somebody I trust privately and get an opinion on how should I defend myself (which is the same reason why I really appreciated it when Budja said "defend yourself properly" to me, even if he laid an FoS on me.)

[Doc]

f anyone thinks my aggression on Tenchi is strange, it was provoked by
a. His caps lock and diction bothers the crap out of me
b. Korts saying it was suspicious of me to consider (at least, out loud) that I'm possibly wrong. I wanted to dissolve anyone thinking that I'm lynching him in a dissociated manner. I think he's scum right now, and if he is a mislynch i take whatever responsibility that entails.

So basically you are even admitting that the main reason you are pulling points out of your ass to try and incriminate Tenchi even further is because I accused you of being wishy-washy (I assume your point a) is just silliness). How is that not scummy?

(the third statement is the Law of Syllogism itself, that is proven by Socrates)

Hey look, appeal to authority. Why do you feel the need to reinforce otherwise perfectly valid logic by slapping on a big name?

And Tenchi, you can admit to having phrased yourself badly. You

did

say you would stop posting. And seriously,

watch

that appeal to emotion (see post 167). Also see post 167 if you want to see reference to meta, something which you are apparently against in other people's arguments.

[ZazieR]

First of all, Korts I know that those nicnnames were bad. You didn't have to rub that in my face. I have testweek and I'm really stressed right now, so I was surprised that I actually came up with some nicknames.

Back to business.

Soveliss, why would scum say that Tenchi is not a mason? (Warning. This question is only for Soveliss. If you want to reply, you may do so after Soveliss has answered)

Korts, I asked if he was interested in telling us which player P? actually is. If he doesn't want to tell us, he may do so, but I want a reason for that. Besides, why do you actually enter an open game as an alt?

Tenchi, I asked why you thought you were going to be lynched on your birthday? You wren't near a lynch at all. It strikes me as off.
And why was hp's absent suspicious to you?

You need to let me have a life on my birthday. :-p

Sorry, I'm just jealous at everyone who has a life as I spent most of my time here .
But Tenchi, who are your top 3 scummiest players so far? I want to see your suspicions for a change. One post without a defend attempt isn't too much to be asked, right ?

Budja, are you reading everything?
And what do you mean with this:

Tenchi making errors all over the place for people to use.

Pops, who are your top 3 scummiest players so far?

Sekinj, you mentioned a 'newbie question' and a 'newbie defence'. Which are they?

I'll look later at the discussion between Pops and Tenchi. Right now, it gives me an headache.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP

Mod:

I don't think Doc voted himself. He has voted for Pops.

[Tenchi]

+ REGARDING 167: That's why I used Spoiler tags. The whole spolered thing is irrelvant but I feel like sharing. Or maybe I should have spoilered more stuff. But all I wanted to say that I know Mafia but come from a different background.
+ REGARDING PHRASING MYSELF BADLY: I have on numerous ocassions and I feel stupid for them. But I have to explain and say that I meant something else, and I have to get the real meaning of what I said across (not some ill percieved definition of what my post sounds like, especially if I feel scum is manipulating the words I say.)
+ REGARDING BIRTHDAY LYNCH: It was several things A. Having the most votes in the game by the time my birthday started B. Added by Wall-Es vote on me C. Me finally trying to just relax by inserting the fact that its my birthday. D. I actually got to be myself for a bit, I roleplayed (although Wall-E was a bit hard to hug... he had this huge... metallic... arm.)! All in all it was all fun. I just would find it ironic if it happened. Not to mention I don't know what's going to happen in the next 24 hours. It could have happened!
+ ON ZAZIER REQUESTING MY 3 SUSPECTS: I have mentioned my three suspects in various points of the thread, and most of them prettty clearly why:

1. Pops
1. Soveliss (yes both of them are at number 1)
3. Peter (although I don't have a strong case because most of the stuff I have on him could be coincidence or human error)

Here's a summary on some of my other more current suspicions:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1377271

Zazier: Please read the stuff I post carefully. THX!

Also Zazie (our IC in my other game! ) or anyone: Is there a way to search for all the posts of a specific person in a specific thread? Right now I can search for a specific person's post in a specific forum.

[Doc]

First of all, Korts I know that those nicnnames were bad. You didn't have to rub that in my face. I have testweek and I'm really stressed right now, so I was surprised that I actually came up with some nicknames.

My intention wasn't to make you feel bad. It's just that I know you're capable of much more than that Take your time, it's not like I'm going to wander away.

Korts, I asked if he was interested in telling us which player P? actually is. If he doesn't want to tell us, he may do so, but I want a reason for that. Besides, why do you actually enter an open game as an alt?

The first reason that springs to mind is to clear their meta, like I was trying (tough luck...), and that's a reason that is perfectly valid for not revealing their real identity. I don't see why this would cause a big problem. If Peter has a harmful meta in his original identity, and he's trying to change that through an alt, that can only be benficial.

And you're right about my vote.

mod:

both Soveliss and I are voting for popsofctown and not me.

Tenchi: for posts in isolation see the "display posts from previous:" part at the bottom of the page, where if you set "all users" to a particular name, and click on "go", you'll get all the posts of that particular user in isolation.

[Soveliss]

Soveliss, why would scum say that Tenchi is not a mason? (Warning. This question is only for Soveliss. If you want to reply, you may do so after Soveliss has answered)

I'm looking at it more in the way of 'Why would town want to bring attention to who might me mason.' In a open game like this we know that mason is the only real 'power' role for the town. Town should try and keep the possible identities of mason's covered at all times. They should not be pointing out who may or may not be mason.

[Doc]

Unfortunately, town end up doing things they shouldn't have motivation to pretty often, usually due to misunderstandings in theory. You aren't scumhunting properly if you're looking at what town wouldn't do. You should be finding things that scum would do.