Night Watch Open 95 - Game Over before 703

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Guys, I'm feeling kind of stuck here.
I'm not really sure I see OP as scum, I don't like TCS as scum, I obviously don't like MYSELF as scum.....
And the deadline is creeping up.

Out of the three people with two votes (you, me, TCS), I don't really like it either. If I had to lynch one of the three, it would be TCS.. obviously. I know that I am not scum, and I am not sold at all that you are scum. TCS would be the best choice out of the three of us, but I am not quite as convinced as I was before, and maybe OMGUS took over before. But I still think his case is crap. So if it come down to deadline, I will be voting TCS, but there are people with ZERO votes on them right now that I'd rather see lynched because I think they are scummier than the three of us.

Yet another example of not saying anything... you're not making a case. You're just saying who you would vote for. You are contributing nothing new. Contribute something new or be lynched.

[StrangerCoug]

So if it come down to deadline, I will be voting TCS, but there are people with ZERO votes on them right now that I'd rather see lynched because I think they are scummier than the three of us.

I love it when people are vague. I really do. [/sarcasm]

You imply that at least one of afatchic, Haschel Cedricson, ortolan, Xtoxm, and I are scummier than camn and The Central Scrutinizer, but at no time, not even in random voting, did you vote any of the first five of us. The only time you said any of the five of us were suspicious, you didn't say why other than he "looked" suspicious. Get the hell off the sidelines and tell us why you think specific people are scum.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Sadly, much like life, the universe, and everything, something has to come out of nothing at some point.

Apparently we're playing with God himself.

And: "Nothing can come of nothing."

King Lear

The significance: TCS is saying that a wagon based on nothing is appropriate... which it's not. Maybe on page 3. Not on page 13. Duh.

I want to fume and call you an idiot at this point, but instead I will explain to you in very clear language that my case against orangepenguin is based upon the fact that he has

contributed

nothing

in the way of scumhunting to this game. He has managed to do this while posting fairly frequently. He is in essence lurking in plain sight and making no attempt to converse, debate, accuse, hunt, or turn up any useful information whatsoever.

So the "nothing" I was referring to was the sum total of orangepenguin's contribution to this game. You'll forgive me the literary jest... I sometimes forget that we are not all native speakers of anglophone languages.

I also don't understand TCS's point about OP's win in PD Mafia (which I was in - in fact, I was one of the two scum he killed to win the game). First of all, the game mechanics in PD mafia were insanely different than this game's. Secondly, I was sent to jail because the town thought myself and my scumpartner were town, and OP used his power which killed two people the townies thought were town. Finally, you seem to be arguing that OP is a good player - and what's your point? He says he's bad, you say he's good... where were you trying to go with that?

The salient point is that he correctly predicted that

both

you and Seraphim were scum in that game and used his power role

perfectly

to nail you two. Not a single person in that game suspected both of you of being scum... in fact, if I remember correctly, the two of you were both though to be pro-town. Orangepenguin clearly saw something the rest of us did not.

So you must understand that it stretches the bounds of credulity for me that OP has

no thoughts whatsoever

about the scumminess of people in this game, other than those leading wagons on him.

That active lurking point on OP is also bull.

Gonna look through and see if I want to vote TCS.

Sound and fury, signifying nothing? There are two PBPAs in this game pointing out precisely how vacant of content orangepenguin's posts have been, and further evidence to the point, that you seem to think can be nullified by a sentence-long negation from you. I'm sorry... that's not how this game is going to work. Make a point, and support it, or you're just another leaky hot air balloon.

[camn]

re-Vote Orange Penguin.

see post 320.

Plus, his defense has gone no-where.
Plus, to break the 3-way stalemate.
Plus, TCS is really right!

[afatchic]

Meant to do this sooner but

UNVOTE Camn, Vote Orange Penguin

the vote on camn was just to gauge reactions and everything. ive seen scum make that same statement, and fold when questioned about it. and since i was the first to start the wagon on OP and his defense has been terrible, so i still think he is scum.

Thats L-2 i think, no mis-hammers.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Here's my take.

At first I didn't care for TCS' case on OP. The argument itself was fine, but I felt the timing was off. OP has been acting this way for the entire game; why did TCS not form the case on OP until after I had formed a case on him? TCS had previously been voting for me/Panda Stomper for lurking, and when given the choice of a person who's not saying anything of substance and a person who's not saying anything AT ALL, my first suspicion would go to the former.

Nevertheless, OP was called out on being light on substance. This should be a cue for him to stop that, and he has not. If anything, he's gotten even more noncommittal.

Orangepenguin: Earlier you stated that you were not going to vote until you made an actual case on someone. If your next post does not include a detailed case and a vote, I will vote for you.

Where did Xtoxm go?

iceman: Elaborate on this:

That active lurking point on OP is also bull.

[ortolan]

I want to hear icemanE's argument for why OP isn't active-lurking

I also want to hear who OP thinks is a better lynch target than himself

Finally; ensure OP is allowed to roleclaim before being lynched

[orangepenguin]

I guess some of you haven't heard of patience. Like I've said, I am not going to vote, until I make a case on somebody. My last post is hinting that I have a suspect - which means I will be making a case on them. I am not going to say "vote: playera" and then explain later, but be called scummy because I didn't provide reasoning.

I do NOT like how TCS is insisting that my last post didn't contribute anything- I just shared my thoughts, how is that not contributing? I did the same thing cammn did. Yes, I was sharing who I would vote for, because it's a 3 way tie- or it was before certain people jumped on the wagon quickly.

If you wanna know the player in question - afatchic. But I haven't been on the site all day, besides my last post, and I won't be on again until this afternoon. Hence, no case yet. Haschel, please don't vote me yet. My next post after this will include a case- a hopefully detailed one that will please you (with a vote), and hopefully others. I hope that isn't vague enough for you SC.

Of course, I totally expect to be hammered by this afternoon, for stupid reasons, by people who claim I don't contribute, when they have done little themselves. In which case, I hope I will have time to claim, because it will sure hurt the town otherwise.

The bottom line: TCS' case on me that I have done nothing this game - wrong. His case is simply that I haven't provided a case on anyone yet. So has others, if you haven't noticed.

(my next post won't be until tomorrow afternoon, at around 6 ET, give or take a few hours)

[Jex]

Vote Count

4 - orangepenguin (The Central Scrutinizer, StrangerCoug, camn, afatchic)
2 - The Central Scrutinizer (Haschel Cedricson, ortolan)
1 - camn (Crazy)
1 - bionicchop2 (icemanE)
1 - Crazy (Xtoxm)
1 - icemanE (bionicchop2)

Not Voting

orangepenguin

It takes 6 votes to lynch

Deadline is Dec 5th

[camn]

softclaim? Really?

[afatchic]

softclaim? Really?

my thoughts exactly. he better have a pretty good real claim is all i got to say.
and im kinda anxious for his case on me....lol

[bionicchop2]

OP may as well just claim now.

[ortolan]

Yep, he's already strongly implied a power role- he should claim and then post anything else he deems relevant.

[orangepenguin]

Well, right now, I am in the middle of the case. If after I post it, people are still not convinced, I will claim my role, even though I rather wouldn't day 1.

Herschal, I promise my next post will include my case, lol. I just had to address these posts. In the meantime, I must say I don't really like how nobody takes me seriously. Yes, a softclaim. Either I don't claim, and die by town, or I claim, and die by scum. I am going with the latter.

[bionicchop2]

If after I post it, people are still not convinced, I will claim my role, even though I rather wouldn't day 1.

Here is my opinion: If you are saying you are a power role, I think you leave it at that - but you need to say it definitively. At least that would leave some WIFOM for scum - not knowing if they need to target you directly. If you are hider, they miss. If you are watcher, you can watch the person you said you would hide behind - again to WIFOM an prevent them targeting for the double kill.

So, I guess just knowing power / vanilla is better than knowing the exact role at this stage of the game.

[orangepenguin]

If after I post it, people are still not convinced, I will claim my role, even though I rather wouldn't day 1.

Here is my opinion: If you are saying you are a power role, I think you leave it at that - but you need to say it definitively. At least that would leave some WIFOM for scum - not knowing if they need to target you directly. If you are hider, they miss. If you are watcher, you can watch the person you said you would hide behind - again to WIFOM an prevent them targeting for the double kill.

So, I guess just knowing power / vanilla is better than knowing the exact role at this stage of the game.

Well, I am a power. I'll go with your advice, and leave it at that.

Of course, with my record and everything, I doubt anyone believes me anyways at this point.

BACK TO MY CASE! (so many distractions!)

[bionicchop2]

You can also do none of the above.

Also, I have decided to hide behind Haschel tonight instead of Xtoxm as I am starting to get an odd feeling about Xtoxm.

[bionicchop2]

Well, I am a power. I'll go with your advice, and leave it at that.

Of course, with my record and everything, I doubt anyone believes me anyways at this point.

1. Record means nothing. I am 2-7 as town (0-1 as scum) at this point and it won't slow me down one bit.

2. I actually believe you.

[orangepenguin]

Well, I am a power. I'll go with your advice, and leave it at that.

Of course, with my record and everything, I doubt anyone believes me anyways at this point.

1. Record means nothing. I am 2-7 as town (0-1 as scum) at this point and it won't slow me down one bit.

2. I actually believe you.

1. I didn't mean game win record, I meant my posts in this thread, since everyone (majority, not just you) seems to agree that I haven't contributed much. I think my posts have been fair enough though. I surely could've been more enthusiastic in the earlier days, but there isn't much I can do about that now. Being the center of attention right now has definitely made this game more enjoyable, oddly enough.

Doing a full blown case against afatchic has changed my opinions a little, but you'll see why soon enough.

No more posts from me (hopefully) until I post a case.

[camn]

Hmph.

UNVOTE

Of course.. the deadline is right around the corner.

God I hate deadlines.

[Crazy]

Okay, here's just some random quotes:

FOS StrangerCoug for choosing the same person both times.
If you ARE the Hider.. you WANT to hit scum. if You "know" penguin is town.. why choose him again?
If you ARE NOT the hider and are TOWN.... it shouldn't matter.
If you are NOT the hider and are SCUM.. then you want to give out as little info as possible in the event of your lynch... thus you sticking with the single choice.

Hmm, what? Didn't you do the same thing before this? How is this different than that? Certainly if SC was aware of how the hider role worked, he would have claimed correctly... it's not like he'd get away with "targetting" the same person twice, anyway?

Dialogue from Page 6:

SC: "I kind of understand your point here. It's an open setup, so to outguess the mod we'd have to guess who has the role, but role speculation does have the danger of someone slipping up and giving away their role. For example, it's my fault for making it obvious that I'm not the hider. Is it scummy that I made such obvious? That can be debated. The problem I see with your acknowledgement of the danger is that I get a slight rolefishing vibe from it. "

Ort: "You get a rolefishing vibe from me acknowledging the danger? Or you get a rolefishing vibe from me discussing the setup in the first place? "

SC: "From acknowledging the danger."

Ort: "How does acknowledging there's some potential danger of people revealing their roles reek of rolefishing in itself? That makes no sense to me."

SC: "I'll be damned if I know, but something's rotten in the state of

Denmark

my mind reading that. "

Anyone else find this funny/scummy? Essentially, it's:

SC: I get a rolefishing vibe from that.
Ort: From what?
SC: From acknowledging the danger.
Ort: How is that rolefishing?
SC: I dunno, but it is.

Hehe.

Look, Ort.. it was scummy.. but not THAT scummy.
however..Your intense, desperate defense is almost MORE scummy.

Oh, please, don't pull the overdefensive thing.

I think that the fact that panda stomper waited to go last is as good a reason as any to vote him. Between him and orangepenguin I think we have about a 50% chance of lynching scum.

unvote, vote: Panda Stomper 85

The post that started the mini-wagon. It's weird; but I see Xtoxm's point that it doesn't really sound scum-motivated, just uninformed.

Oh, by the way, the only scummy vote on that wagon was afatchic's. SC's vote was fine, and I completely buy that Bionic was hunting for reactions.

FoS: afatchic for mindlessly bandwagoning and HoS: bionicchop2 for OMGUS and not giving reasons for his last two votes.

ICEMAN + SC PARTNERS! Yes?

Omgus is

not

a scumtell.

Kyew Eff Tee!

Last page I implied that a scumteam of bio and afatchic was possible. In a quick reread I noticed that they were the two major proponents of the hypoclaim plan. I'm trying to think of a possible scum motivation for suggesting this plan. It is ostensibly protown, from what I can tell. However, they had N1 to discuss how they'd proceed. I will mull it over.

Also, bio's main priority in previous pages seemed to be discussing how the hider should proceed. Coupled with the fact that fat suggested the plan, with bio quickly agreeing with it and then starting it - I dunno, I'll have to watch these two in coming posts.

I've suggested a hypoclaim as an SK before. Remember, one scum motivation is to try to look pro-town.

It's because I hate lurkers more than I hate my own life. They wreck the game. I think in a Meta-sense it is totally worth it to lynch a few townie-lurkers in order to discourage lurking in general.
In TWO of my recent games the scum have lurked their way to victory because we have gotten SOFT!
RRR! Now I am all worked up!

VOTE PANDA STOMPER!!!

dieLurkersdie!!

Woah... Panda's not a lurker.

So all in all, we are nearly ten pages in and Orangepenguin has added no useful content to the game. i even asked him what his thoughts were, and he adds a one liner about not lynching lurkers.

OP who are your top three suspects and why?

UNVOTE VOTE Orangepenguin

Hey, I was way worse than OP. Apparently I was under the radar.

@crazy - really need more participation from you. I don't remember you being this inactive last time we played in the same game. For someone who really liked the setup, you don't seem to be paying attention to it.

My bad. I lost some of my interest in mafia. I'm behind in my other two games as well, and I'm not scum in

all

of them.


------


My thoughts on the players:

afatchic - Very well could be scum. His weak wagon vote on the TCS wagon is really what gets to me.

bionicchop2 - Everything he's done here fits with his town meta as I've seen it in Mini 614. Then again, I don't know his scum meta, but I don't feel him as scummy at all.

camn - I think she's scum. Everything she says just seems to stick out as scummy to me. Yeah, I know you can't defend from that, but if I feel I want to make a case on you, I can bring some stuff out that bothers me.

Crazy - I'm town.

icemanE - I always find iceman scummy, in whatever game I'm in. That includes this game. His argument with bionic in this game is pretty bad.

OP - Woah, okay, power role claim. I say don't lynch him; wait until he's either NKed or we hit lylo.

ortolan - His theory talk is a null-tell; he's done that before. Overall, he seems pretty town-looking.

Haschel - If I am the hider, as I hypo-claimed, then I know that Haschel is town. As far as I see it, Panda didn't really do anything substantial so that's a null-read, and Haschel is hitting my town-dar so far.

StrangerCoug - Pff, I'd be tempted to vote him for that dialogue with ortolan alone.

TCS - Mixed read, though his links with my other scum suspects make me think he's more likely to be town.

Xtoxm - Is it weird to say someone that posts mostly one-liners looks pro-town? Meh, I guess I like people with short, to-the-point posts.


For the lynch, I'd support camn, Fatty, Ice, and SC in that order.

[afatchic]

afatchic - Very well could be scum. His weak wagon vote on the TCS wagon is really what gets to me.

can you find anything else beside the vote scummy? and i really want you to explain what the problem is with the vote. at the time we had very little information, and very little activity. so i said i thought TCS was scum, and i thought we needed a wagon to get things moving, which it worked. then after the activity picked up i unvoted and moved on to OP, so whats the problem?

[camn]

Hmm, what? Didn't you do the same thing before this? How is this different than that?

I totally did. But I didn't understand it before.
But then someone explained it to me. . . and it totally made sense. . .
Coug posted AFTER that explanation. . . so he should have known better

But that is some ancient history, man.

Plus.. overdefensive IS scummy.
And Panda lurked his way to replacement. But it is true, I was consumed with fury back then. It was not an appropriate way to spend my time

[afatchic]

Oh,

UNVOTE

no way im lynching a claimed Power role day 1. the claim seems sincere since most scum would have actually claimed a role there in order to get the real role to claim.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: orangepenguin