Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Xylthixlm]

Let's hear it for Gimbo

[killa seven]

I thought he was at L-2... we clearly need more frequent votecounts.

Me too. If I'd thought he was at L-1, I totally would have hammered. If anyone deserves a policy lynch, it is Puta Puta, and that would be an awesome way to enter the game.

Hi all, I've been semi-following this game as it's been going, but now I'm actually in it, I'm working on a more thorough reread.

Iam's First Post replacing in.

Said puta puta deserves a policy lynch.



His next post

And my reason is more then he's picking on GC, my reason is GC would be a good target for scum to eliminate if he's town.

So basically I'm deciding if he's more likely to be town, or if you [Battle Mage] are

. I'm much more inclined to lynch you though, since that will at least show GC isn't aligned with you. Though sadly if you flip town we effectively learn nothing.

OK, the first thing that strikes me as notably suspicious in this game is this here massive false dilemma set up by THE GUY I REPLACED. Thanks, Sobeahero.

SensFan's entrance is interesting. ckd overreacts massively to Sens choosing to vote before he's finished catching up, and then changing that vote each time he gets further caught up, which I think is a very reasonable way of compensating for his absence at the beginning. Unless there was a risk of him accidentally hammering someone (and there clearly wasn't at this stage), how would this be harmful to the town, ckd?

On the other hand, Sens says in Post #210 that he's caught up, and yet his vote is still stuck on Page 3? Did nothing at all happened on pages 4-9 that was worthy of comment?

...I don't get the anti-Sir T thoughts at all. I have absolutely no idea what it is that everyone is seeing as so scummy there.

vollkan is the first one to pick up on predecessor's total scuminess. I'm surprised he didn't get more attention before this. I've never replaced someone who was my prime suspect before, I'm not really sure how to handle it. I mean, I can't exactly dispute vollkan's arguments when I agree with them.

#312 is :goodposting:. Once we've got the necessary policy lynch on Puta Puta out of the way, OGML is definitely a person of interest.

...And that's a reread done. Besides Puta Puta being terrible, I think SensFan's little "playing five pages behind" thing has generated by far the most interesting reactions. Pretty much, anyone who attacked him for this is on my suspect list, because I don't understand how they could possibly see it as being scummy, but especially so when they had previously said this:

Oddly enough, I agree with BM. GC undermined his own argument in the process of writing it.

Yeah, but is that actually scummy?

The flaw in his reasoning could have been an honest mistake, but there's also a good possibility it wasn't

(its very easy for scum to jump on a standard anti town tell such as voting no lynch)

, and its light years better than a random vote. The random voting stage does exactly zero for forward momentum.

Now, obviously, voting before you've finished catching up on the thread is not a standard anti-town tell, but I think the core argument, that it is easy for scum to jump on someone

acting outside the accepted norms

, actually applies better to the SensFan situation. I understand why a No Lynch vote on D1 is seen as anti-town. I don't understand why making temporary votes while you're catching up on the thread is.

---

Hammer without a claim? Why would anyone want to do that?

What on earth gives you the impression that Puta will do something as helpful as claiming?

Vote: Puta Puta

. He is the worst.

brief alalysis, then sais "what gives you the impression puta will claim" then eagerly votes him.



very next post after the puta heat dies down.

Eh, if he's lying scum, there's pretty much no way we won't figure it out before endgame.

Unvote, Vote: OGML

.

he immediately switches to omgl.



Then 2 real life days later

Unvote, Vote: killa sven

My vote's not going to do anything much while OGML is away, and I know k7 can be more helpful than he has been so far in this game. Let's get this wagon a-rollin'.

he immediately switches to me when a wagon forms on me.. saying his vote on omgl isnt going places.. really 2 days.. and you didnt even push.

Iam.. why do you keep switching votes so fast from wagon to wagon?

[militant]

I will also

Unvote

now that Puta is being replaced.

[Hoopla]

In this sort of situation where Puta claimed cop without really following the game, is it worthwhile pressing for a confirmation claim from his replacement? I could honestly see him being a cop or scum, or even just a townie.

@k7 - I think Iam's voting was justified. I'm contemplating unvoting OGML also, as the sole purpose of my vote on him was to extract information from him - that was more than a week ago. OGML has done nothing to justify a case on Sir T at all, at more than one stage claiming him to be scum.

Do you have any other suspicions k7?

[Battle Mage]

BM 381: Slightly worrying, as I've used that line myself as scum.

militant 402: "beginning to annoy me" is not my favorite reason for a vote

SirT 404: Leaving a trail is good. Suspicion on BM noted. "deliberate" ambiguous playstyle, antitown.

Ectomancer 411: Yes.

BM 488: BM calling me "obvscum" means I'm playing right

Yos2 499: I agree with Yosarian2

BM 514: BM shows no evidence of considering whether my policy is a good idea

skitzer general: Where's that analysis?

OMGUS. And ftr, it's fairly obvious to everyone here that your policy is completely idiotic, and barely even a policy, given that you haven't really thought/spelt out the specifics of it. Self-voting is clearly not a scumtell, which is why i see your pretending that is is, as scummy.

BM

[Xylthixlm]

OMGUS. And ftr, it's fairly obvious to everyone here that your policy is completely idiotic, and barely even a policy, given that you haven't really thought/spelt out the specifics of it. Self-voting is clearly not a scumtell, which is why i see your pretending that is is, as scummy.

BM

Allow me to necro to state some things clearly for everyone:

1. If you are part of an Uninformed Majority (
   i.e.
   Town) in a game I am moderating and contribute to your own lynch by self-voting, I will consider you modkilled for violating your Win Condition, absent other circumstances^*.
   
2. If you contribute to your own lynch as a pro-town semi-experienced or IC player in a Newbie Game, as List Moderator I will ban you from ICing ever again^**.
   
3. If you contribute to your own lynch by self-voting (absent other circumstances^*) and turn out to be pro-town, I will not knowingly play with you again.

That is all.

^* I will never run a game with Lynchers or Jesters. It is possible some other mechanic could make this a viable strategy, but I will make that explicit in your Role PM.
^** There is an ongoing NG where this happened; please don't discuss it here until that game is over. I've already spoken to that player.

link

[Ectomancer]

In this sort of situation where Puta claimed cop without really following the game, is it worthwhile pressing for a confirmation claim from his replacement? I could honestly see him being a cop or scum, or even just a townie.

This is good talk.

[Xylthixlm]

I think it's clear that

Puta Puta

Gimbo was just a distraction, and probably didn't even remember his actual role.

[Seraphim]

Unvote

pending replacement.

[tubby216]

In this sort of situation where Puta claimed cop without really following the game, is it worthwhile pressing for a confirmation claim from his replacement? I could honestly see him being a cop or scum, or even just a townie.

This is good talk.

so who ever puta's replacement would boy do i feel bad for that guy

[Natirasha]

I think it's clear that

Puta Puta

Gimbo was just a distraction, and probably didn't even remember his actual role.

This, in a nutshell.

[iamausername]

See, I knew killa seven could post content.

very next post after the puta heat dies down.

That's one way of putting it. I would say that "after Puta claimed cop" would probably be a more accurate way.

he immediately switches to me when a wagon forms on me.. saying his vote on omgl isnt going places.. really 2 days.. and you didnt even push.

Please note the words "while OGML is away". I have every intention of returning that vote to him when he's actually going to be around to respond, but in the meantime, I figured that adding to the "stop killa seven lurking" drive was a better use for it.

Got any thoughts on anyone else?

[vollkan]

Excellent, glad to see Puta is going.

Unvote

, pending replacement (though 'pending' is probably redundant, it's unlikely anybody else could be that completely useless)

[Yosarian2]

unvote

[curiouskarmadog]

back in town, will be rereading soon

[Battle Mage]

OMGUS. And ftr, it's fairly obvious to everyone here that your policy is completely idiotic, and barely even a policy, given that you haven't really thought/spelt out the specifics of it. Self-voting is clearly not a scumtell, which is why i see your pretending that is is, as scummy.

BM

Allow me to necro to state some things clearly for everyone:

1. If you are part of an Uninformed Majority (
   i.e.
   Town) in a game I am moderating and contribute to your own lynch by self-voting, I will consider you modkilled for violating your Win Condition, absent other circumstances^*.
   
2. If you contribute to your own lynch as a pro-town semi-experienced or IC player in a Newbie Game, as List Moderator I will ban you from ICing ever again^**.
   
3. If you contribute to your own lynch by self-voting (absent other circumstances^*) and turn out to be pro-town, I will not knowingly play with you again.

That is all.

^* I will never run a game with Lynchers or Jesters. It is possible some other mechanic could make this a viable strategy, but I will make that explicit in your Role PM.
^** There is an ongoing NG where this happened; please don't discuss it here until that game is over. I've already spoken to that player.

link

Where in that quote does Flay say that self-voting is scummy?

BM

[Xylthixlm]

BM, connect the dots. If it is against the rules of the game to be on your own lynch as town without a good reason, then anyone who is self-voting with intent to be on their own lynch is either (a) not town, (b) possessed of a good reason, or (c) breaking the rules. Cases 'a' or 'b' are good reasons to lynch the person. Case 'c' is handled by extra-game mechanisms.

[Battle Mage]

BM, connect the dots. If it is against the rules of the game to be on your own lynch as town without a good reason, then anyone who is self-voting with intent to be on their own lynch is either (a) not town, (b) possessed of a good reason, or (c) breaking the rules. Cases 'a' or 'b' are good reasons to lynch the person. Case 'c' is handled by extra-game mechanisms.

Firstly, Flay mentioned being 'on your own lynch', not you. You simply said that self-voting itself was scummy, and didnt make the distinction between the situation in which it takes place.
Secondly, I have no idea why Flay would limit his ruling to townies- self-lynching is just as harmful to the scum win condition as it is to the town one.
Thirdly, you assume Flay's post was without an agenda. The fact is, he clearly made it with the intention of turning self-voting into a scumtell, by removing the townie element. THE FACT HE MADE THE POST ATALL, IS PROOF THAT SUCH AN ELEMENT

DOES

EXIST. In other words, you have disproved your own argument- that self-voting is a scumtell.
Fourthly, Mr Flay is a clever man, but he isn't god. Nor does he moderate the majority of the games on site. You should take everything you read with a pinch of salt, or you might end up with egg on your face.
Fifthly, your option b does not constitute a good reason to lynch someone. It's lynching someone for stupidity.

I hope i've settled your concerns.

BM

[Xylthixlm]

Moving on... I have some questions for killa seven: Why did you wait over 20 pages before making a useful contribution to the game? Do you feel that lurking is good town play?

[killa seven]

Moving on... I have some questions for killa seven: Why did you wait over 20 pages before making a useful contribution to the game? Do you feel that lurking is good town play?

have you played with me before?

[Xylthixlm]

have you played with me before?

No, but I'm currently doing a research project on people who adopt deliberately antitown playstyles, and I'd like your input.

[Battle Mage]

have you played with me before?

No, but I'm currently doing a research project on people who adopt deliberately antitown playstyles, and I'd like your input.

would you mind awfully sticking to the game?

BM

[OhGodMyLife]

As far as I can tell puta puta aka gimbo just got wagoned to a claim in every game he was in and claimed some kind of town power. He's a dick. Guess we'll need to hear from his replacement, but he still looks like a good lynch, or at least righteous vig material.

Reading up today.

[OhGodMyLife]

Unvote, Vote: tubby216

K7 gets a meta pass from me for lurking, for now.

Tubby seems to have tried to scare people off his wagon with this weirdly vague softclaim-type thing, which was really scummy but got swamped by gimbo puta's shenanigans.

[OhGodMyLife]

On Sir T:

Post 98
This is what originally drew my attention and vote. His reason for the FoS is total bull, and the fact that he FoSes when he hasn't got a vote out is something I find really scummy, in that noncomittal, don't want to leave a paper trail sort of way.

Post 125
Specifally, this line

There really isn't any reason strong enough for me to actually vote for Seraphim. And, he still has to answer that question.

Admits he hasn't really got anything on Seraphim, but is happy to use the fact that Seraph hasn't responded as an excuse to do nothing himself.

Post 157 and Post 158
Defends his move onto the Hoopla wagon in 157 based on a total falsehood, then corrects himslf in 158 regarding the facts but seemingly doesn't think this should change his defense in the slightest. Also, note this line from 157:

(still waiting for your answer Seraphim)

Its so convenient for scum when someone doesn't answer a query of theirs, they get to just sit around doing nothing all day long except repeating that they're waiting for something.

Post 404
Lets look at some details.

1) I am convinced CKD is town. His attack on Sensfan seems to be very righteous and passionate.

Unabashed buddying up to CKD.

3) However, I am not so convinced about BM up to this stage though. I am noticing an overwhelming lack of smileys from him, which I think he puts a lot of when he is town, not sure if this is a general change in his posting style though.

This is an incredibly ridiculous reason to attack BM.

I do play distinctly different as scum and as town usually, but the play style in this game is deliberately supposed to be a bit ambiguous because I was being sick of being NKed, especially after being NKed on N1 in my last game (which I was really starting to enjoy).

Wow what an awesome excuse for scummy play, you're "trying to be ambiguous" so you don't get nightkilled. I call shenanigans.

Post 407
Again its all in the details

At least try.

unvote, vote: BM

I

really

don't like this vote. Do you think BM gains anything from not posting? If he did, would he be going on posting at a rate he was going before Shanba's request? Utter crap.

yawn,,,,Vote:BM

What I said to Natirasha.

Wait wait wait, didn't you just make a sidelong attack on BM yourself for

not using enough smileys?

I don't think there can be anything more utter crap than that, yet here you go attacking people who attack BM. Thats really strange.

I did explain it, I think. I voted Hoopla because I found his no lynch vote scummy, but as the game progressed, I came to the conclusion that it was not scummy. I believe I stated this somewhere.

You explained it based on a false premise, then you quickly corrected yourself in regards to the premise but did not correct your explanation.

Also, I vaguely remember waiting for someone's answer to something I asked.

lulz

Post 412
It should be clear by now that Sir T and tubby216 are scum together.

Post 469
Epic lulz

Post 477
Finally, finally votes for Seraphim, I guess he felt that he had left enough "waiting for your answer" posts to point back to later if this vote was ever questioned.

Post 494
Then pulls this sudden switch to voting xyl, playing follow the leader with BM, the guy who he, let us not forget, attacked earlier for not using enough smileys. But then shortly after that, heChainsaw Defends BM by way of attacking Natirasha and Der Hammer for their BM votes. How strange.

I think that does it.

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

FoS: tubby216