TM 2023 | Masterchef MafiaScum (Game over)

[Dessew]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

My understanding is that we want to avoid completing our recipes, correct? May the worst chefs win.

[Dessew]

Datisi has informed me that he believes Korina to be town

VOTE: Dessew

Vote me mommy, I've been a very very nauthty boi

Love,
the highwayman on the autobahn of hearts

[Dessew]

That's E-1 btw

How the Hell did Dessew get to E-1 so fast? Ty bianco

I have a magnetic personality

[Dessew]

VOTE: Menno

I don't have strong feelings about a furtive wagon, but Menno seems better.

I like NB and Korina for town so far. In particular, the setting is a bit counterintuitive, so anything that might appear obvious to one player, might be all the more confusing ti the other. Especially in this case I wouldn't expect mafia to write such a long post about the mechanics, even if the observations aren't particularly insightful.

[Dessew]

I'm a bit behind with my reading, but kuribo knows for a fact that Aureal is mafia.

[Dessew]

I'm fine with eliminating Menno, furtive or Aureal at this point. My townreads are the same.

I've recently had a game where Drew replced in, he's a chill, active player. Let's see what he does.

[Dessew]

I'm fine with eliminating Menno, furtive or Aureal at this point. My townreads are the same.

I've recently had a game where Drew replced in, he's a chill, active player. Let's see what he does.

By "at this point" do you literally mean you would want any of those people hammered right now, halfway though the deadline? You also seem to be mostly focusing low activity slots, and I hardly see anyone ever thinking that's a good idea for day one if they can help it.

I don't think anyone on this site uses that expression like that, but if you do, you should put it in your signature.

Secondly, one of my three top scumreads are low activity, Menno. The other two are you, Aureal, and furtive, who's been very active on the voting front.

In fact, it seems like he didn't really know what to do with his votes until someone suggested it'd be fine to eliminate him. Nervous mafia who tries to place a not conspicuous vote on a town enough wagon, but doesn't succeed, that's what it looks like to me.

The Ari vs Drew seems like ToT violence, unfortunately, but if not, the Ari slot is still likely town. For what it's worth, Drew was mafia in the game we played, and he was more agreeable there.

My "defence" of Drew when he replaced in was in reaction to Menno's push to eliminate the slot just as a new player was about to take over.

VOTE: furtive

[Dessew]

VOTE: Aureal

I can move to the Aureal wagon if the furtive one doesn't want to get going. In particular, I don't really see her wall post as town, for me it rather comes across as someone who wants to appear town. Tweet made long posts, they were relatively well received (except by Drew, apparently). But the post lacks the reasons and flow it'd need if it came from a genuine place. This by itself isn't necessarily a strong scumtell because she's under fire, but her earlier posts also gave off this mimicry vibe, although mich subtler. All in all, she seems to be primarily concerned about appearing town, and that is a scumtell.

About the number of mafia, the theme is quite counterintuitive, and I think it'd make a lot more sense if mafia turned out to be Baldy, Fatty and Donkey from the show (or whatever they're called). So that's an argument for three mafia.

[Dessew]

Oh, and I love the signature, Aureal, I didn't actually expect you to do it.

[Dessew]

For Aureal's long post, the part that really set the alarm bells off for me was when she said that she can now trust Tweet being town because he reads her correctly or something along those lines. Firstly, in the moment this development would be fine, but in a retrospective it's just forced and unnatural to bring it up because it's extremely weak. Secondly, why call a player both alignments in the same post if you've been playing along since the beginning? For a replacement it can make sense because they might want to give us their authentic first impressions, but Aureal already had the benefit of hindsight. Town intentions wouldn't yield this chronological approach.

Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. There are pros and contras to this read. On the one hand, it's popularly said that spirits from the otherworld never lie, especially if it's family. On the other hand, unfortunately there are a lot of fake, uncertified psychics out there, and you might think Kuribo's being untruthful. To this I say: Kuribo's the most honest player on this entire site. It's common knowledge that he doesn't have a non-scumhunting bone in his body, and sheeping him is always the best possible strategy (because he busses really hard as mafia).

I'll later put together a proper case on Aureal, but I'm currently on a train.

I missed the names of the judges, it's a good find. Then there must be two mafia, and they must be the judges (why else come up with the name Calvin Song?)

[Dessew]

I missed the names of the judges, it's a good find. Then there must be two mafia, and they must be the judges (why else come up with the name Calvin Song?)

Is there a point in talking about this like it’s amazing news?
This is 9 players list so sure there probably is two mafia, but like you feel a blt like trying hard to seem uninformed while also subtly not being so? Odd vibes.

I acknowledged and answered to bianco's post. I don't see how a one-line paragraph is "amazing news", when in the same post I wrote about four times as much about Aureal. What's your problem exactly?

[Dessew]

Was that an attempt to answer my question?

[Dessew]

*attempt at answering the question, TIL

[Dessew]

Now I've actually at down and properly looked at Aureal's ISO (also on a laptop), and I'm dumb, Aureal seems to be town. She's been actually quite proactive. I still think 470 is weird, it's very different from her other stuff, but it's not extremely scummy, and it's just one post. I misremembered, soryy.

VOTE: furtive

I still really like furtive elimination, and I know it's legit because it's based on his voting history, which I do remember correctly.

Write now we're E-1, but I won't get eliminated, so if you're off the wagon but suspect me, not declaring intent is anti-town (not necessarily in terms of alignment, but in terms of your effect on the game). Not discussing alternative or second choice eliminations is also anti-town. From the other two wagons, I townread Tweet a lot, and Drew a little, but still.

[Dessew]

@bianco: I've looked at furtive's vote on Aureal again, and I can't really see the post where he talked Ari into the wagon. Sure, he mentioned Aureal earlier on the same page, but that was supposedly Gimli's read. In fact, in 198 Aureal was "unsus", other mentions of her were based on Gimli. I understand you correctly, you're saying that furtive was somehow spiritually first on that wagon, but when I read that part in context, that's not what happened. Furtive's vote was a bit sheepish, and fairly non-committal, like his early votes in general, and combined with his frequent changes, that fidgetiness is scummy in my opinion.

@NB: my question is: what's your issue with my participation in the spec talk, in particular in the context of the wider discussion involving Drew, Tweet and bianco? I simply don't understand your 556.

I'll have to reread bianco because I have a very difficult time forming an opinion about them. Others on the list are Korina and Drew, I've lost sight of them a bit.

[Dessew]

@Dessew,

Speaking of teammates

Gimli wants me to reiterate Aristeia/Korina T/T and Aureal scum, but with more 'sauce'

So there you go

lets wagon aureal then

VOTE: Aureal

VOTE: Aureal

furtive was spiritually first on wagon, yes. "Talked into" was peraphs too strong of a phrase.
Also you are ignoring how Aureal ceased to be 'unsus' about two pages earlier:

Any Gimli enjoyers here?

His reads:

bianco, Korina town
Aristeia null
Aureal sus

I saw that, it's Gimli. That's how the post starts. It's Gimli, not furtive. My point stands.

Just out of principle, if there's no intent, there's no claim. I also don't get this talk about breadcrumbing: if there's no claim, what does town stand to gain from Drew's question? If there's a breadcrumb, it'll be revealed with the claim.

As the game goes on, I'll be less and less likely to be eliminated, I'm willing to tell you this much voluntarily.

I also think that mafia can probably do a lot more if there's some ingredients on the shelf, so after some consideration, I'm also fine with no elimination for D1. Although it's really puzzling to me where this reluctance to lim furtive is coming from.

[Dessew]

okay fine if that gets to -1 I'll hammer

Wait, I've missed this, jeez

[Dessew]

I'm a naughty boi, a Thief, a highwayman, and an excellent lover. But in this game specifically, I'm a Thief, which is basically a doctor. I can target a player of my choice or the shelf, and take a random ingredient.

[Dessew]

The role is confirmable, so it'd take a very special player, like Menno, to hammer me

[Dessew]

Datisi has informed me that he believes Korina to be town

VOTE: Dessew

Vote me mommy, I've been a very very nauthty boi

Love,
the highwayman on the autobahn of hearts

[Dessew]

I don’t think Menno meant they would hammer your wagon, but rather Bianco if that get’s to E-1.

:facepalm:

[Dessew]

Bianco's been defending furtive hard, so which flip would be more indicative for the other? I think furtive flipping town would give bianco towny points, and bianco flipping mafia would give furtive scumpoints, is that correct? In that case I'd prefer furtive, to maximise our minimal advantage.

[Dessew]

The role is confirmable, so it'd take a very

special

player, like Menno, to hammer me

can you elaborate on that one chief

This comment was unkind, I apologise. It turns out, I was the most special player all along.

Anyway, at night I take a random item from a player. I wouldn't target furtive because he's my top scumread, but for the sake of the argument let's say that he survives today, and I target him. Then at the start of D2 I can say, "furtive, I targeted you", and he can confirm that he lost an ingredient. Alternatively, I could also say, "haha, furtive, YEAST, amirite?" if the first one doesn't do the trick. N1 I could pretend with a scumbuddy if I were mafia, but if I change my target for N2, then by D3 I'm 100% confirmed (because, as previously discussed, there's only two mafia), and even before that I'd only have one possible partner.

My role is practically a doctor, but it's been modified for the special NK mechanics.

[Dessew]

What strikes me as odd is that bianco lists a Gimli read as proof for furtive putting some pressure in Aureal's way while responding to a post by me where I said that I don't think that counts (referring to different posts by furtive, but the relevant content is identical). Why would scum!bianco jump through such hoops for town!furtive? The association might not be strong, but it's definitely there, and I'd rather secure a middling towntell in case we mislim than hope for a similarly strong scumtell if we get the lim right. That's my logic, anyway.

[Dessew]

So you still are believing Dessew's claim? Still not buying it.

Like, why do you think it's fake though

I guess that would technically explain why he didnt immediately join bianco's counterwagon but he didnt really join any wagon

Dessew actually halfway argues for town!bianco because of some associative with furtive that I didn't quite get. So technically possible

I dont see where Dessew's claim changed

Their initial hinting at their role is that they cannot be elim'ed, suggesting that mechanically speaking they can't be

Then the 'full reveal' did not reflect this. I do think it is possible that what they did is part of their role, but like Bianco are only telling half truths.

And then of course not moving over to vote Bianco.

Are you illiterate, or just being an asshole again? I said I won't be eliminated, not that I can't.

I targeted Aureal, she should be able to confirm that she has one fewer item (hopefully).

I remember this mystery item thing, but I misunderstood it. In my role PM, I had exactly one ingredient that I don't need for my recipe (and a number of ones that I do, but I don't want to specify now). So I figured that ingredient must be the mystery one, but apparently I was wrong.

During the night I was considering just starting a whole round of discussing our inventories, but I don't think that's feasible because very little info could result in practically role claiming. I started with much fewer ingredients than NB (or bianco), and my recipe is way more complicated. It's also an actual proper dish, not sourdough, and definitely not cheesy tomato.

[Dessew]

So I think the important mech thing is that we should just avoid talking about recipes in general. Like, at no point ever should

anyone

claim their recipe, or what ingredients they have. Simply because there's no NK for scum. The only kills happen if you have all your ingredients at the end of the night, or elim during the day, and kills are replaced by redistribution where the ingredients are able to be moved to/from players, so all we'd do by posting what we have and what our recipe is, is just telling the scum

how

to kill you.

I looked up my recipe and the ingredients needed to kill me are present in the game, which makes me think that Lilith just went through a bunch of foods and went "How do you make these" and took the ingredients in the list, and that's how to kill me. I think that's going to be true for everyone too - I don't think we're going to have someone have a recipe and need an ingredient that makes

zero

sense to make that food IRL as a part of the kill.

Additionally, not-mech related, but I think you're town thus far, but that's simply for wanting to end RVS.

I didn't expect we'd discuss this post, but now we have an idea of what recipes we have in the game, and the way Korina talks about hers seems town to me in this context. Paragraph 2 made very little sense to me at the time, and it must've been strange to bianco too, but I can see how someone with NB's recipe could have this line of thought.

[Dessew]

Sorry for the triple post, but one more thing: I strongly suspect that NB got the whole shelf over the night. It also lines up nicely with my ability to steal from the shelf.

[Dessew]

So I think the important mech thing is that we should just avoid talking about recipes in general. Like, at no point ever should

anyone

claim their recipe, or what ingredients they have. Simply because there's no NK for scum. The only kills happen if you have all your ingredients at the end of the night, or elim during the day, and kills are replaced by redistribution where the ingredients are able to be moved to/from players, so all we'd do by posting what we have and what our recipe is, is just telling the scum

how

to kill you.

I looked up my recipe and the ingredients needed to kill me are present in the game, which makes me think that Lilith just went through a bunch of foods and went "How do you make these" and took the ingredients in the list, and that's how to kill me. I think that's going to be true for everyone too - I don't think we're going to have someone have a recipe and need an ingredient that makes

zero

sense to make that food IRL as a part of the kill.

Additionally, not-mech related, but I think you're town thus far, but that's simply for wanting to end RVS.

I didn't expect we'd discuss this post, but now we have an idea of what recipes we have in the game, and the way Korina talks about hers seems town to me in this context. Paragraph 2 made very little sense to me at the time, and it must've been strange to bianco too, but I can see how someone with NB's recipe could have this line of thought.

Doesn't that post mostly say "Avoid claiming your recipe or ingredients because the recipe is actually made by the ingredients"?

It's a bit more than that, although I'm a bit back-and-forth on it, tbh. Look at paragraph 2 ("I looked up my recipe and..."). Korina's reacting to and in a roundabout way describing her own recipe. I'd think, going in to the game, we probably all assumed that all players have similar recipes. I certainly thought we all started with the same number of ingredients and the recipes were all of the same size etc. But NB's and bianco's recipes were completely different (at least in terms of size), and mine doesn't even compare, it's a complex dish with a lot of parts. From my perspective, Korina's thought process didn't make sense at all, but for a player with, say, NB's recipe, it's a lot more reasonable.

Also Dessew, did you gain any ingredients overnight?

Are you illiterate, or just being an asshole again? [...]

I targeted Aureal, she should be able to confirm that she has one fewer item (hopefully).

[Dessew]

@Drew: I took a random ingredient from Aureal, therefore I have that ingredient on me. Or do you mean if I received other items during the night? There's no point in talking about that at this point.

If it comes down to Aureal and Korina, I'd prefer a Korina lim. We can disregard my previous post about her, because I was arguing that she was VT, and that's clearly not the case.

[Dessew]

Eavesdropper sounds thematically correct, given my thief.

@Korina: how many ingredients are there in your recipe?

@Aureal: after Korina answers, could you gives us your number too?

[Dessew]

@mod:

does the list of shelf ingredients indicate when there is more than one of a type or are they just present whatever the quantity?

Beef, Egg, Flour, and Milk have been added to the Shelf.

Day 2 starts now and ends in (expired on 2023-05-07 20:00:00).

V OTECOUNT 2.000
S HELF: Beef, Egg, Flour, Milk, Stock, Water, Wine
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Aureal (0)	None
Dessew (0)	None
Doctor Drew (0)	None
furtiveglance (0)	None
Korina (0)	None
McMenno (0)	None
Morning Tweet (0)	None
NOT VOTING: Aureal, Dessew, Doctor Drew, furtiveglance, Korina, McMenno, Morning Tweet
Notes: pagetops: Lilith 8 | Aristeia 6 | Norwegianboy 6 | Dr Drew 2 | McMenno 1 | Aureal 1 | furtive 1 | MT 1 | Dessew 1

Duplicates are indicated in my start of day PM. I'm currently holding two of one of the ingredients.

[Dessew]

VOTE: Drew

Drew is 100% mafia, and I'll post an explanation, but first I'd like Korina to tell us what her role name is. She can tell us about her mechanics as much or as little as she wants, but we'll need the name

[Dessew]

By the way, I started with three ingredients, currently have six, so that's three extra. One mystery item, one from Aureal, and then one more, not two like Drew says. Aureal has confirmed that she lost an ingredient. Flour is doubled. I'm not sure what Drew's argumentation is, but it doesn't really matter because I'm 100% sure he's mafia for completely different reasons.

[Dessew]

Seriously, man, what's wrong with you? What did I write? I first want to hear what Korina claims to be.

[Dessew]

If you were literate, you'd already know what I'm going to say because I mentioned the topic a page or two ago.

[Dessew]

Did you have that double Flour before the night phase, Dessew?

I started the game with one, and now I have two.

@Drew: it's disrespectul to call my genuine concerns for you petty insults. Get yourself checked. Take better care of yourself.

[Dessew]

We all care, furtive, what's your role called?

[Dessew]

We all care, furtive, what's your role called?

I'm a neighbouriser, haven't done it yet

Is your role flavour in a theme game neighbouriser?

[Dessew]

I'm a Thief, bianco was an Inspector, Aureal and Drew claim to be an Eavesdropper and a Redistributor, respectively. Are you saying, you're a Neighbouriser?

[Dessew]

Tweet, I'm confused. Are you explaining it to me or to furtive?

Also, it's a bit embarrassing, but I've just noticed that you go by she, and I've been consistently referring to you as a he. Sorry about that.

[Dessew]

Oh no, kuribo's quoting Warhammer. You know what that means

[Dessew]

Here's my logic, because I won't wait for Korina anymore.

Stealing and eavesdropping are behaviours a contestant on Masterchef could exhibit if they wanted to win the show. An inspector and a redistributor are people you'd find in the production crew. Point is, "you're a contestant and a thief/eavesdropper" makes sense thematically, while "inspector/redistributor" doesn't.

How does neighbouriser fit into the picture? I don't know. If it's true, then it looks more town than mafia, but either way it's a bit of a stretch. Furtive also might have just made it up.

What I'm 100% certain about is that Drew is mafia. I know I'm a Thief, I know bianco was an Inspector. In this context, when Drew said he was a Redistributor, he might as well have claimed Goon. There's just no other possibility.

@Menno, Korina: what do you think?

Added bonus: there's surely no more than three mafia in the game, so once we lim Drew, confirming furtive's alignment should be trivial.

[Dessew]

@Aureal: did I take yeast from you? I can tell you, I didn't. I woke up with three extra ingredients, and that does narrow it down, though. So if we wanted, we could confirm me further with this knowledge.

Drew's entire case against me is absolutely fucking idiotic. Now he's started putting words in my mouth. I've never said Menno or Korina are his buddies. If he's the only mafia left, then evidently he'll need to take ingredients from town.

Also, what's his case at all, again? He hasn't made a case yet. It's been all just bloody nonsense, he's got literally nothing. His posts read like they were written by senile lunatic. He's obviously mafia.

And above all: Redistributor is not a town role.

About Korina, I want her to post. We can push her, but I've asked a question, she can explain herself, whatever. Keep in mind that I've only got three extra ingredients, not four, so she might've got her own item back.

[Dessew]

Sure, our roles are kinda similar, except that he can apparently move double the ingredients, and doesn't have to tank it. His PR is definitely much stronger than mine. However, the centrepiece of my case is that his flavour is similar to bianco's, but dissimilar to Aureal's and mine. Redistributor isn't a town role.

[Dessew]

Aureal said that Korina lost flour, one of the three extra items I have is flour. And there's a flour on the shelf. So three flours are accounted for (because I started with one), and I doubt there's a fourth one. Tweet, how does this make sense in a world where Drew and I are both town? Drew claims to have given me two items, I took one from Aureal, and there's also the mystery item, which I may or may not have got, I'm not sure how to figure that out. Drew says he gave me ingredients from NB and Menno, Aureal has confirmed that she lost an ingredient, but I have flour and the flour must've come from Korina. Someone's lying, and it's Drew, also because Redistributor isn't a town role.

(Mind you, this puts a hole into the idea that Korina got her ingredient back, but I still want to hear from her. She should at least full claim.)

[Dessew]

Redistrubtor and Inspector are roles for the production team (in the theme). Thieving and Eavesdropping are things contestants would do. Neighbourising could be something a contestant in a reality show like Masterchef would do.

Redistrubtor isn't a town role.

[Dessew]

Tweet, you've just found a new clue! Come on, hop on the Drew wagon. Redistrubtor isn't a town role.

[Dessew]

Neighbourising could be something a contestant in a reality show like Masterchef would do.

What does this even mean?????

They could become friends with another contestant is what I mean. Lilith might've taken it to be analogous to womanising. If the claim is true, then it should be town. Of course, there's a chance that furtive just made the claim up.

What do you want to hear about the flour? I think I've said everything.

Redistributor isn't a town role.

PEDIT: we care for everyone in this town <3

[Dessew]

Do you concede that a contestant can be a thief or an eavesdropper? Do you concede, that the same for stagehands would only be incidental at best, and it wouldn't even be mentioned in the show? Do you concede, that an inspector or a redistrubtor couldn't be a contestant? Do you concede that stagehands could be inspectors and redistributors to monitor and steer the show?

Redistrubtor isn't a town role.

[Dessew]

Finally managed to sort my sig out

[Dessew]

DO YOU CONCEDE? BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, DO YOU CONCEDE?

[Dessew]

I HAVE LOOKED INTO THE ABYSS, AND WHAT I SAW THE TRUTH! REDISTRUBTOR IS NOT A TOWN ROLE! DREW IS CLAIMING GOON! REPENT! REPENT! DREW IS CLAIMING GOON!

[Dessew]

why did I mistype -_- there was meant to be no "what"

[Dessew]

You've already repeated my argument. Drew claims to do the thing mafia does. But then you go, no, no, Drew would never play so poorly. But he would! He is!

[Dessew]

Why the fuck is thieving or eavesdropping in masterchief as a contestant but inspecting and FUCKING REDISTRIBUTING is stagehand and stagehand (As we all know) IS SCUM so by that reasoning the only logicaal conclusuion we can come to is that, yes, Drew must be scum.

Here you also repeated my points. We already know that inspecting is scum.

[Dessew]

Redistributor would be Doctor and Vig at the same time. In fact, Drew claims to be double Doctor and double Vig.

[Dessew]

Of course, it's about the stagehands, no argument has been presented against this idea. Redistrubtor isn't a town role.

[Dessew]

What doesn't make sense to you about it? Is there any more meat to your arguments than "Drew just can't be such a moron to outright claim mafia"?

[Dessew]

Guys, new meta just dropped: when mafia, claim goon. Tweet will defend, no matter how many loops she has to jump through.

[Dessew]

He's a double vig and a double doctor! If there's only one mafia in the game left, then we've got a minimum of 4 town PRs (you, me, Aureal and Menno). And he's a redistributor, he does what mafia does, and his role thematically is not a contestant, just like bianco's wasn't. Nothing fits for the town!Drew narrative.

Ceterum censeo, Redistrubtor isn't a town role.

[Dessew]

Sure, in a vacuum the closest approximation to his claim would be a vig, but at the same time he also does what I do (take ingredients from other palyers), and he both gives and takes twice.

[Dessew]

Redistrubtor isn't a town role.

[Dessew]

One more thing: bianco had four ingredients when they got limmed, and NB started with four items, plus a possible mystery ingredient. If Drew had taken a random ingredient from NB as he claims, then there should be five or six ingredients on the shelf, but now there's seven. So Drew is lying (because he took it from Korina).

[Dessew]

Didn't you say Korina lost flour?

I know my theories about Korina and the flour are incompatible, and I did mention it, I think. Truth be told, I've no idea what's up with Korina at this point, and I want to hear more from her. But it's not really a priority because Drew's claimed mafia, and you're all appearently from the mirror universe. If kuribo didn't give me a sense of normalty in my life, I'd think I've gone insane.

[Dessew]

Did anyone lose an egg?

[Dessew]

@Dessew, my pronouns are they, not she. This is like the second time I've said that. Pls get it right. It's right under my name.

Sorry, I wasn't actually checking it, but I'll pay attention from now on :)

What role are you claiming?

[Dessew]

That's weird and suspicious, to be honest. Who did you target?