In post 1147, Venmar wrote:
Bub really do be just looking for the most viable wagon like a moth attracted to blood, it's pattern I've noticed most of the time when he pops in to post.
This is a pretty wild take. They've been vocal against the Enchant/Glitch wagon and very much an advocate for the CKD wagon.
I disagree, I feel like we're not reading the same game. Especially D1 I feel like Bub would mostly pop in to voice his support for a different wagon between Andante, Hu, etc. I'm mostly going off of memory tbh but I've never found Bub's posting to be very "townie".
i'm a traffic analyst and gimli is able to communicate. with the masonry i'd normally hide this but after rereading greeting and gimli i don't really see them as masons together.
so gimli is prob scum (or a neighbor or mailman or something but probably just scum)
In post 3420, Skygazer wrote:
i rlly scumread gimli here but dont know how to push it so i was hoping i could get him to fumble panic and claim something stupid
In post 3579, Skygazer wrote:
was running more interference to try and draw scum away from that slot. why i vote parked ceph for so long so they seemed like a less attractive NK
i'm a traffic analyst and gimli is able to communicate. with the masonry i'd normally hide this but after rereading greeting and gimli i don't really see them as masons together.
so gimli is prob scum (or a neighbor or mailman or something but probably just scum)
In post 3420, Skygazer wrote:
i rlly scumread gimli here but dont know how to push it so i was hoping i could get him to fumble panic and claim something stupid
In post 3579, Skygazer wrote:
was running more interference to try and draw scum away from that slot. why i vote parked ceph for so long so they seemed like a less attractive NK
Unsure about Malcolm scum now, his Day 2 (around page 110) and Day 3 analysis (near day start) were good. I'm also not sure he would lolclaim VT as scum at end of day 1 either.
In post 4027, Venmar wrote:
I disagree, I feel like we're not reading the same game. Especially D1 I feel like Bub would mostly pop in to voice his support for a different wagon between Andante, Hu, etc. I'm mostly going off of memory tbh but I've never found Bub's posting to be very "townie".
I ctrl+F'ed 'Bub' in your ISO, and Bub's wagon hopping seems to be a sticking point for you. Afaict, this is the primary reason you've been scumreading Bub this whole time, and the reasoning rings very hollow to me.
For clarity, Bub voted CKD, Hu Tao, Andante, and then finally KittyTacky.
I'm townreading Bub, because the reasoning behind each of these substantive votes were clear and made sense to me:
Why? None of their posts have seriously moved towards scumhunting. In fact, to the extent that they've expressed theories on how to scumhunt, they've done the opposite -- or even worse -- not followed through on what they promised/gave the illusion of doing. First:
So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.
I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao
Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.
Also going to put a
finger of suspicion on Kawaii
for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.
Im sold.
However, Im going to
vote Kawaii
I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.
consider this my
finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub
Earlier I asked why Kawaii and not Hsu? If they believed me, why not vote for Hsu? Sure it's early and essentially a random vote, but I asked for explanation directly in post #39 and got crickets. Like, the whole idea of starting a flimsy wagon at the beginning was to generate some conversation about what scummy behavior is...but there's no effort to actually discuss that behavior.
Making some vague allusions to the idea that Andate is scummy with no follow-up or serious pursuit. Just trying to sow generally mistrust on people in low-cost ways is scummy. This makes me think Andate is town -- conditional on curiouskarmakitty being scum -- because this is way too weak to be a bus. Also, curiouskarmakitty themselves said that fingers of suspician are cheap because it's a way to get credit for suspecting folks without doing the work...but here they are doing something very similar. I know they were intentionally hypocritcal earlier for a laugh (I don't read that as scummy) but this seems actually hypocritcal in a way that would be beneficial for scum.
In post 365, curiouskarmadog wrote:
for Bub
dont want to repost the huge wall that was 242.
however my question was simply this.
in my post 136, I ask why you decided to leave off my question to Hu Tao when you made your "CKD is scummy because he is not scum hunting case". you post all my other posts, but deliberately left that post out. I wanted to know why?
and you still actually havent answered that question. Why did you chose to leave that post out when you posted ALL of my other post to "prove" your point. Clearly you cherry picked post and that post did not fit into your narrative.
Sorry about the wallposting.
I didn't cherry pick -- I picked posts that were representative. Your question to Hsu doesn't go against the narrative, in fact it exemplifies it. You asked Hsu a banal and vague question that's unlikely to actually advance the game state. But you did it to make it look like you were scumhunting so you could point to it if and when accused of not scumhunting.
Look back at my post, I actually think I did myself a disservice by not quoting your question to Hsu in post #95 because it would have made my point stronger. It fed into my vibes that you were posting stuff that wans't meaningfully scumhunting but in the moment I was posting the other examples sprung more easily to mind.
I also did answer your question to me in post #242 but I guess you didn't like/notice my answer.
In post 406, curiouskarmadog wrote:
At this point, I really dont know if you are scum or just laser focused on a wrong read. So we all know you are set on me being scum....what are your other Scum reads?
Right now, I feel like the stuff you've done is clearly the scummiest out of anyone. The weak, wishy-washy "scumhunting," overly defensive and reactive reaction to serious pressure, and the scummiest possible claim means that my scumread of you is stronger than anyone else.
Ballpoint seems like a likely scumbud with you. Hopped off the wagon as soon as it got serious and slid onto the Andate wagon for questionable reasons. Also, as other people have been saying, they post a lot without saying much. Just feels like they're trying to play it both ways -- get credit for being on their scumbud's wagon (in case you're eliminated).
Glitch was a scumread, but that was based on them promising content and not delivering. They've more or less delivered, so there's no particular reason to think they're scum. At this point they're a null read for me. In isolation their posts seem fairly townie, but the analysis could have just been in response to the pressure.
I'm somewhat suspicious of Stargazer and Hu at this point. Stargazer's just been a lurker. Their iso has got basically no content. Town do lurk all the time, so it's not that alignment indicated, but I don't want them to get away with it. Hu is a difficult read for me because I feel like I have some first impression bias, but maybe I'm overcorrecting? I started the wagon early on them for flimsy reasons for the purpose of generating some conversation, and my immediate read on their reaction was townie, more as a vibes thing. But recently they've been lurking. As soon as the serious pressure dropped off Hu receded into the background.
In post 543, Kowahbunga wrote:
Honestly, the game should head more towards holding the least contributing person's toe to the fire. The more scum talk, the more caught they get imo
Yeah, I see the point. At the very least lurking is anti-town, so pressuring lurkers to contribute can help the town even if the lurker is town.
I still think that Hu is scummier than Stargazer because I think their lurking reads as more strategic.
In post 816, Bub Bidderskins wrote:
Still prefer a Hu lim here as they've been more actively scummy I feel. NJAC reads as just more of a lurker/low activity player. Hu's pattern of activity reads to me as more alignment indicative while limming NJAC feels more like a policy lim than anything.
What you think is "wagon hopping" I think was genuine belief that these people were scum. I think if you cared to look at the reasoning why Bub made these vote changes, you would see a clear trajectory behind why he scumread these people. Instead, I think your scumread here is fairly lazy and doesn't demonstrate intent to understand people's reads.
I also gleaned that day 1 last a month; voting four people isn't a lot at all for an absurdly long time, and anyone would want to move their vote to end the day when day drags on like that. Andante was a compromise vote to end the day.
Evidence of Bub wanting to end the day:
In post 1547, Bub Bidderskins wrote:
I'd be down on a flash wagon on Bub if it means we end this goddman day.
(btw don't see scum saying this)
btw, there were also many wagons Bub was vocally opposed to: Cephrir (aka me), NJAC, Glitch/Enchant, Skygazer (just look at VCs).
In post 3808, Venmar wrote:
Sky's vote/thought progression w/e on page 149 doesn't sit well with me
##3729 by CKD is both presumptive and imo incorrect; broadly saying that scum love to lean on "being defensive is scummy" feels like CKD is conjuring up a fact to try and justify why he doesn't like Bub's comment. In my opinion I think being overly defensive is a null tell because in my experience I've see townies explode as much as scum when attacked; someone using it as a scumtell is therefore not really AI inherently for me idk.
I feel like Enchant might've picked up on this in the next post but said it better than me?
CKD vs Bub feels more like SvS just cause I scumread both slots tbh. #3731 Looks like a big word salad, I feel like they're both attacking each other for slim reasons and it feels like a lot of posturing by both.
Sky simply sheeping enchant/furtive to vote Bub despite TReading bub(?) is also very weird to me, not sure how to read it. Sky admits in #3743 that they destroyed their credibility to make their own pushes but tbh I didn't like Sky's overall gambit shenanigans and it felt like a lot of scum theatre that is now feeling more justified with how Sky is using it as a reason to sit back and let themselves be lead. #3752 by CKD is then an interaction that feels like someone coaching someone out of a slump.
#3752 and #3755 by Malcolm are poor mostly because I disagree with his take on CKD's response to bub and I also disagree that Bub looked like "very active and strong town voice" earlier in the game, Bub has been mostly wagon hopping all game and idk why people townread that slot tbh. Malcolm's read progresses in the next few posts though as he reads more of Bubs posts, though a post like #3759 feels like Confirmation Bias.
#3765 by Bub is doubling-down on a bad argument. #3767 feels hypocritical because I think Bub scumreading Andante fo hopping on and off a wagon is something Bub has done (?) before in D1.
Sky defending Bub in the later posts is then weird since I scumread those posts but idk. #3773 by Sky in shading Kowah is also bad since I feel like Kowah is potentially the best townread in the game for starting the Kitty wagon.
I just don't really like how Sky is voting for Bub while also actively defending him.
Tbh feeling like Sky, CKD, Bub, Malcolm and Sheep are all varying levels of scummy to me and I'm kind of comfortable hopping to Sky the most.
VOTE: Skygazer
My eyes are mostly glazing over the Bub/CKD/Malcolm threeway, STD asking them to move on summarizes my thoughts on that.
A lot of this reads like "I don't agree with this take, so I'm going to scumread them"
I am sort of caught up...see we are replacing SOMEONE ELSE..fun.
I have been back and forth on Venmar (though, off the top of my head, I dont recall why I had a townie lean on them at one point), Ill need to go reread my notes.
that being said, I dont feel like
In post 4041, ofrhz wrote:
A lot of this reads like "I don't agree with this take, so I'm going to scumread them"
VOTE: Venmar
is a reason to think someone is scummy. Venmar has done OTHER things that I feel is scummy, but not that. for example, I dont believe ("agree with his take") Bub genuinely feels I am scum today, so I am essentially scum reading him. What are your thoughts on that stance?
OFR,
can you work me through why you think Bub is town? you reposted a joke about him being okay with a Bub wagon? Why? A lot of people were expressing long day fatigue.
In post 4040, ofrhz wrote:
What you think is "wagon hopping" I think was genuine belief that these people were scum. I think if you cared to look at the reasoning why Bub made these vote changes, you would see a clear trajectory behind why he scumread these people. Instead, I think your scumread here is fairly lazy and doesn't demonstrate intent to understand people's reads.
Also see this ^^^ for why I'm voting Venmar
I think his read on Bub is remarkably underdeveloped given it's day 3
Okay reread your post about WHY you feel Bub is town....
you felt like the vote he made on me page 5 was substantive. You understand that in that vote he said I wasnt scum hunting. Then posted a bunch of my posts but deliberating left out the post where.....I was scum hunting. Even in this day, he has put forward MULTIPLE times I am not scum hunting, but just being defensive.
Specifically, what about that vote made clear sense?
In post 4042, curiouskarmadog wrote:
can you work me through why you think Bub is town? you reposted a joke about him being okay with a Bub wagon? Why? A lot of people were expressing long day fatigue.
The way he developed his reads felt natural (see the quotes in 4039), and I think he genuinely believes you're scum.
It's as if he's had this paranoia on you since early day 1 that he hasn't been able to shake off.
Okay reread your post about WHY you feel Bub is town....
you felt like the vote he made on me page 5 was substantive. You understand that in that vote he said I wasnt scum hunting. Then posted a bunch of my posts but deliberating left out the post where.....I was scum hunting. Even in this day, he has put forward MULTIPLE times I am not scum hunting, but just being defensive.
Specifically, what about that vote made clear sense?
I thought your early posts (especially 33) were kinda scummy
Which post did he leave out? Or more importantly, do you think he was doing it uncharitably by leaving that post out?
When I said his votes "make sense," I mean that there is an internal consistency to them that leads me to believe that he genuinely believes in his read, not that I necessarily disagree.
In post 4042, curiouskarmadog wrote:
can you work me through why you think Bub is town? you reposted a joke about him being okay with a Bub wagon? Why? A lot of people were expressing long day fatigue.
The way he developed his reads felt natural (see the quotes in 4039), and I think he genuinely believes you're scum.
It's as if he's had this paranoia on you since early day 1 that he hasn't been able to shake off.
Let me put it this way, do you think he would be loltunneling you today as Scum when he is about to get voted out? Your wagon hasn't and will not gain any traction. He's not even voting his biggest counterwagon to survive
I think maybe Bub really just thinks you're scum
