large normal 243: lindOVER

[Skygazer]

i think their unvote/revote on me reads weird. like i think if he was town actually hard scumreading me then he'd just vote me and push me. instead he let someone talk him out of the vote then slipped back on as soon as my wagon built up a tiny bit more steam. just seems to me to be more likely to be an optics thing? like if hes actually scumreading me im not sure if he unvotes?

[Enchant]

VOTE: gimli

ya i think im good sitting here a minute

what happened with your logic that gimli as mafia would claim something like mAiLmAn

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler:

西游朽

vote count 3.2 !

Skygazer (4):

sheepsaysmeep, NJAC, Hu Tao, Gimli

Bub Bidderskins (2):

furtiveglance, Save The Dragons

sheepsaysmeep (1):

Venmar

MalcolmTucker (1):

Enchant

curiouskarmadog (1):

Bub Bidderskins

not voting (5):

curiouskarmadog, MalcolmTucker, Kowahbunga, GuyInFreezer, Skygazer

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to place someone under noncitizen's arrest. day 3 ends in (expired on 2023-05-01 23:16:17)

moderateur notes

• gimli & kowabungah are vla for the weekend

2 conftown on a wagon everyone else ignores...probably sums up mafia as a concept better than anything else

[Enchant]

bah

VOTE: Bub Bidderskins

[curiouskarmadog]

Man you're just immediate super defensiveness towards any kind of pressure is so goddamn scummy.

scum love to lean on "being defensive is scummy" as part of a case, because they usually dont have anything. Someone says something they cant answer..."oh you are super defensive". lame just lame.

1.) explain the theory of why a scum would be more defensive than a townie. It is easy to just say it, but explain it.
2.) what is your definition of "defensive". I saw someone say something that is either not true or hypocritical I call it out.

[Enchant]

It's like explaining why OMGUSing is scummy, except for fact "wiki told me so"

[curiouskarmadog]

couple questions Bub...and think hard here.

When you posted "your case" on me today, why did you not read the all of the thread?

I skimmed through the early stuff today, but your posting at the end of D2 was soooo scummy given the flip that it over-ruled anything.

Why were you attacking me Day 1?

I made my case in 123 and your subsequent over-reaction to any sort of pressure made you look even more scummy. Your soft-claim to try and get pressure off you D1 was mega scummy and I don't understand why that caused the pressure to slip off, but I guess I'm just chalking that up to a meta shift. Back in my day that kind of soft-claim would have resulted in an instant elimination.

Did you ever feel that Andante was scummy Day 1? If so why? If not why?

I was all aboard the Andante wagon at the end of D1. I felt like her eratic posting and lack of conviction read as scummy, but I was reading the dynamic between you and her as town/scum because of your half-assed deflections towards her. So earlier in the day when I had a scumread on you that implied in my mind that Andante was town. Given the Andante town flip, that seriously implicates you.

When I posted the below BEFORE your vote on Day 2, what were your thoughts on it?

Here is the problem with me swallowing Adante as scum. FL tell me why I am wrong.

at..

not official

Andante (7): Kowahbunga, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Flavor Leaf, Skygazer, Gimli, NJAC
Skygazer (5): Save The Dragons, NJAC, Greeting, Hu Tao, KT

also the Andante wagon just looks scummier.

fine..

Vote Skygazer

my vote on Bub isnt helping.

My vote put it at 7v6

in 1967, Andante voted Eira....she could have voted Sky, putting it at 7v7

would scum Andante in your meta do that? Also given the KT wagon (just reviewed again), hard for me to see ScumAndante bussing a partner in that way.

When I posted this yesterday, why did you comment it on it then?

I can literally go on and on about the different reasons Andante is objectively scum here, and I have, but I haven't done it in the past couple days, because I've been more focused on Hu Tao.

I don't know what to tell ya, CKD. Andante's just scum here, and integrated with the most, so their flip opens up the game more than anyone without a doubt here.

Really at this point, if I joined the Andante wagon after stomping my feet down all day and saying how much I would rather want other people to die....their flip will hurt me either way.

I know ....I know...that isnt a reason to not join a wagon, but I just dont feel like they are scum. Maybe I am wrong. How about this, if you need a hammer....i will do it at the appropriate time and take whatever fucking grief will come.

that being said, what about that Hu wagon?

I don't understand why you're bringing up those posts. Given the Andante flip, those posts look SUPER scummy. It was those posts that caused me to inta vote you after catching up. You're just immediate reactionary defensiveness upon being pushed is so fucking scummy.

your post 123, here were your "points" of the page 5 from D1 case
-CKD isnt scum hunting. I called that out quickly because you clearly ISOed me to pull quotes but conveniently left out most the posts that were examples of me looking for scum. Scum like to cherry pick. To prove your "point" you had to pulled a quote from Page 2?!?!?! Where it was

mostly

jokey? I called something scummy, then do the same thing...on purpose. A day 2 semi-joke post was your BIG example of me not scum hunting?!?! BULLSHIT.
- I was making vague allusions to Andante being scummy. They werent vague. I thought they were scummy (called out others IN THIS GAME) for doing the same thing. Some scum like to make friends and tell jokes when they are in a game to act like they are relaxed and want to pocket some potential town...I called it out. At this point, you were saying I was trying to "sow mistrust" in regards to Andante. Damn straight I was. I thought the action was scummy, so I will called it out. My question is, why would you care? You supposedly didnt know what Andante's alignment was at that point, so why was it scummy? If Andante flipped scum, would it still have been scummy? No. you knew they would flip town.

thats it. that was your case on post 123. it was a bullshit case and at the time felt like you were could have been a misguided townie. But the fact you are still leaning on it D3, is scummy af.

Not to mention, YOU "THOUGHT" Andante was scum too. I note though, that you did not answer why you "thought" she was scummy too. I understand why. Because it would make you look like a hypocritic and shine a negative light on your bullshit case.

oh man, you have a big issue answer questions.

D2, when I posted why I felt Andante was town, BEFORE YOUR vote, did you read it? Did you consider it? Actually dont worry about answering it at this point. I dont think you have an answer that isnt going to make you look more scummy, which is why you avoided answering it.

Really...really, your only case is. CKD voted for Andante when he thought she was town. Thats it. Why did you not say ANYTHING yesterday as I was making these posts. Because YOU wanted the lynch to happen. Try to act like you didnt. Andante was clearly going to be the lynch yesterday. I notice you completely ignore the pressure posts to hammer. I am not using it as an excuse, my vote was my own, but I notice you are again conveniently ignoring it. Why arent those posts scummy? I knew the vote would be some low hanging fruit for some scum bag to attack me for it today no matter the flip that is why I called it out yesterday.

VOTE: Bub Bidderskins

you havent done anything in this game.

- you clearly are not trying to find scum, you post a case against me, but didnt actually read the last 10 pages of the game, because "I was just so scummy" you had to hurry to get your case out there before getting all the information.
- the only meaningful KT had with you was to sheep your bullshit case against me only to jump off when you jumped off.
- the only time you interacted with KT was when her wagon got big then all of the sudden "KT's iso is bad ya'll". LOL...just silly. Then 3 minutes later, you set yourself up to attack Andante D2 and confirm that KT's iso was "legitimately" worse than Greetings. I guess when you working up your case against me you ignored that KT iso when she followed your shitty case against me D1. That doesnt quite fit in your narrative you are trying sell right?

[curiouskarmadog]

It's like explaining why OMGUSing is scummy, except for fact "wiki told me so"

it is all about human nature not alignment. Someone attacks you, well they clearly arent on your side. it immediately makes you bias. same with being "over defensive" What is "over"? is being normal defensive okay? It is a silly attack and SCUM love to use it to fluff up a case.

Scum A "Townie B is scum because of X"
Townie B "No I am not, and here is why"
Scum A "See Townie A is clearly scum look how over defensive they are"

[curiouskarmadog]

@

Everyone

:

Can you please order (again if you already did) these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Sheep, Sky}

general issue with this listing....it ignores Hu and Bub, which are high on my list atm.

Malcom/Venmar...Enchant...Sky/Sheep...GIF?

I would really have to go back and deep dive all 6, so this is just an off the cuff thought.

My question to you. Other than getting a time stamp of what people's thoughts were, is this actually helpful? for me, I am guessing and lack the time to reread all my notes. like as Im typing this, I want to change it.

Malcom/Venmar...Enchant...Sky.....Sheep...GIF?

Like I just remembered the whole Sky incident where she was either trying to trap scum or fish for PRs....but the sheep slot has done jack shit this game....which is scummier? man I dont know.

[Skygazer]

VOTE: gimli

ya i think im good sitting here a minute

what happened with your logic that gimli as mafia would claim something like mAiLmAn

i can be wrong sometimes! im sure thats hard to believe

[Skygazer]

Spoiler:

西游朽

vote count 3.2 !

Skygazer (4):

sheepsaysmeep, NJAC, Hu Tao, Gimli

Bub Bidderskins (2):

furtiveglance, Save The Dragons

sheepsaysmeep (1):

Venmar

MalcolmTucker (1):

Enchant

curiouskarmadog (1):

Bub Bidderskins

not voting (5):

curiouskarmadog, MalcolmTucker, Kowahbunga, GuyInFreezer, Skygazer

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to place someone under noncitizen's arrest. day 3 ends in (expired on 2023-05-01 23:16:17)

moderateur notes

• gimli & kowabungah are vla for the weekend

2 conftown on a wagon everyone else ignores...probably sums up mafia as a concept better than anything else

not ignoring! like i said i think bub is town.

that being said i know when to trust someone else's reads over my bad ones so i'll sheep the conftown + enchant ig

VOTE: bub

[Skygazer]

VOTE: gimli

ya i think im good sitting here a minute

what happened with your logic that gimli as mafia would claim something like mAiLmAn

i can be wrong sometimes! im sure thats hard to believe

also logic is a strong word

[Enchant]

why you sheep me

[Gimli]

im still v/la so dont expect anything

ckd and bub are posting bad and I can see how furtive thinks they're aligned or whatever

@sky: I understand you're trying to push me because you're maf and therefore have nothing better to do but on the off chance you're town: if I was mafia I would take what you did earlier this gameday and dunk town!you with it. I moved to sheep cause I'm feeling self aware about supporting the andante wagon and since enchant is townreading you, I thought it'd be nice to just pick my next wolf lean and vote there instead. since several reasonable people read what I'm reading the same way I'm reading it, I'm convinced you're by far the best flip as I am hard scumreading everything you're doing this gameday, so supporting enchant is gonna have to happen some other gameday instead.

also I think the wonky things you do are fun and great for games so I'm lowkey trying to find a reason to keep yo scummy af slot around but your posting isn't helping so rip

[Hu Tao]

@

Everyone

:

Can you please order (again if you already did) these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Sheep, Sky}

NJAC....
I think this time around, I would like to see YOU answer this first (if you havent already)

Also why isnt Hu on this list.

I am trying to figure out the FL kill. other than being obv town, there are other claimed roles here. Also there is this.

Gimli
Kowahbunga
Venmar

curiouskarmadog
Bub Bidderskins

MalcolmTucker
Skygazer
NJAC
GuyInFreezer

STD
Enchant
Sheep

Hu Tao

Andante

This is my lean town group.

I really do think it's just the bottom 2 then 1 in those 6. I don't think it's GIF/Bub, Curious is being super genuine imo, so I think they're just completely misguided town. Skygazer/Malcolm/NJAC I all lean town on, but I could technically make a partner case for all of them. These wouldn't be dealt with til later with more flips, and frankly, I probably won't be around by this time anyways, so it's for the rest of yall to look into.

Because I'm clearly town. Njac or adante would have been day 1 Elim if I didn't fight for a different vote out

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: gimli

ya i think im good sitting here a minute

Bad vote

[Skygazer]

why you sheep me

i think in general u have good reads and i dont scumread u rn

and i think that scum-enchant doesnt have much to gain by defending me here?

[Skygazer]

VOTE: gimli

ya i think im good sitting here a minute

Bad vote

no u

[Skygazer]

why you sheep me

i think in general u have good reads and i dont scumread u rn

and i think that scum-enchant doesnt have much to gain by defending me here?

i also dont have any credibility left to make pushes of my own that ppl would like... care about

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd and bub are posting bad and I can see how furtive thinks they're aligned or whatever

statements like this from you is why I think my gut says "scum" independent of actions in the game.

again, another easy dismissive thing to say without an explanation. Just hand wave it off without content. What is bad about it? I think Bub is scum. Bub wants you to believe he thinks I am scum. How is either push "bad"? Do you disagree with anything I have put forward? if so what exactly? What do you disagree about Bub's "case"?

[curiouskarmadog]

@

Everyone

:

Can you please order (again if you already did) these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Sheep, Sky}

NJAC....
I think this time around, I would like to see YOU answer this first (if you havent already)

Also why isnt Hu on this list.

I am trying to figure out the FL kill. other than being obv town, there are other claimed roles here. Also there is this.

Gimli
Kowahbunga
Venmar

curiouskarmadog
Bub Bidderskins

MalcolmTucker
Skygazer
NJAC
GuyInFreezer

STD
Enchant
Sheep

Hu Tao

Andante

This is my lean town group.

I really do think it's just the bottom 2 then 1 in those 6. I don't think it's GIF/Bub, Curious is being super genuine imo, so I think they're just completely misguided town. Skygazer/Malcolm/NJAC I all lean town on, but I could technically make a partner case for all of them. These wouldn't be dealt with til later with more flips, and frankly, I probably won't be around by this time anyways, so it's for the rest of yall to look into.

Because I'm clearly town. Njac or adante would have been day 1 Elim if I didn't fight for a different vote out

Are you saying you are not on NJAC list because he thinks you are obvious town? Did NJAC say that somewhere?

[Hu Tao]

Yes. He said I was his townread day 1

[curiouskarmadog]

why you sheep me

i think in general u have good reads and i dont scumread u rn

and i think that scum-enchant doesnt have much to gain by defending me here?

i also dont have any credibility left to make pushes of my own that ppl would like... care about

random question for shits and giggle. What made you post the above 2 minutes after you posted the quoted comment. I mean you answered a question, addressed a different thing, then went back to add this statement. Curious, what made you add this? Motivation?

[curiouskarmadog]

Yes. He said I was his townread day 1

He said that today though?

---
@NJAC

I am curious, where are you on Hu?

[NJAC]

However, considering that neither Malcolm nor Sheep voted Andante on D2, I'm reevaluating.

generally there are usually scum off-wagon too ya know

I know. I'm not saying the contrary.