TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[Jingle]

Mobile atm, but I do plan on it. But do you legitimately think anyone looks at that original wall and goes “this is compelling”?

[wgeurts]

Gonna sleep now as my first wall of text in years has drained me. I do want to note, not providing any insight as to where you stand and not committing to anything is not a playstyle difference.

Tell me who you like most, tell me who you lije least. I don't care about questions posed if you never follow up.

Most? Probably petapan, as they've been putting up a pretty good solving effort imo after some ISO reviewing, especially 90/97, or really just their posts related to Jingle in general.

Least? You, honestly. Other than the obvious, 42 is just a touch odd in the way it asks for people to elaborate on why they might have nullreads at a staggering 42 posts in, and this isn't exactly a 'gotcha' or anything, but you seemed to have taken a far lighter stance on power-up talk in 35 which you've since reversed both in talking about Jingle and about me. This one thinks it'll park a semi-OMGUS mostly-scumread VOTE: wgeurts on you because it just really feels like you're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill on me.

HPE, is there anyone in this game who you are not currently suspicious of, and why? I appreciate a focus on scum, but also, like, identifying town is important.

And okay, then - in that case, what exactly was the problem you had with someone stating their reads are unreliable? Can you walk me through that reasoning, if the confidence someone projects doesn't have much to do with it?

Feeling pretty good about Jingle, and to a lesser extent petapan, mostly because they've been absent a bit. They've both been making rather nice posts (its hard to pin down specific ones to point out unfortunately) and Jingle's ISO in particularly feels very very solvey.

That's a good question, honestly, this one hasn't been thinking too super hard about it until you asked. It just felt like at the moment a kind of weird thing to say. "Hey guys, my reads are unreliable!" is, technically a humble and truthful thing to say because no one can ever be super precise, but its also kinda like, why should we believe you then? Jingle's been doing good, as mentioned, so its kinda whatever, but it just put this one off a bit. Guess that's really all there is to it.

I'm still unsure how why you singled them out for potential scum motivation if their accusations have been the same as others tbh

To clarify: You asked what makes you and peta's accusations different from wgeurts'. This one said the only common link was that you all three said it wasn't posting much of substance, because otherwise only wgeurts was making further accusations in the readwall like with the Jingle thing or power-up talk, etc.

These peta scumreads seem a little sudden but this one probably needs to do some ISO digging. Does anyone have any posts in specific they find scummy from peta?

Like, Cerb has quite demonstrably given little to nothing of value and a lot of it is wordy but not at all substantive. I cannot for the life of me follow HPE's progression, but can think of a relatively clear scum motivated one. It's reactively forming a lot of opinions. You rank Fate low and then say you think he's abrasive town and that Koba is worried they're going to get mislynched?

And then finally just karma check Porkens for town when he's done nothing whatsoever?

This one would ask what you think about their peta read since it's also opposite yours but you're going to give your full thoughts in a bit anywho.

Still pending an ISO analysis on peta of my own due to other things but this one thinks it's seeing where you're coming from, but it'll withhold an actual scumread for that ISO dive.

Okay yeah, this is definitely a bit bad. This one can concur that peta doesn't seem to be making as many actual points of substance as he's trying to look like he is. This one thinks it'd be willing to vote there but it has bigger wgeurts-shaped fish to fry so that's probably not happening anytime soon.

[Jingle]

That doesn’t at all look like a response to “do you think peta reads your original wall and comes back with” this is compelling.

[wgeurts]

Town-like progression on Peta by the way, definitely not "most town" and one of their only two town reads to scum read with beautiful textbook angling to off-ramp using someone elses reasons. Meanwhile is ready to vote me, Peta, Fate, and Porkens. Hasn't explained why or whether or not they do like some more or less as progression. Hasn't said anything about all the "swing" players (CSF, RR, Cerb, Adorable), convenient. Scumread Porkens because he might be buddying it despite also thinking I'm scum.

Real coherency, real natural progression.

Wake up Jingle, how is that garbage.

[wgeurts]

That doesn’t at all look like a response to “do you think peta reads your original wall and comes back with” this is compelling.

Considering I've found myself agreeing with Peta before multiple times and I believe have had the same progression for said thoughts yes I do believe it.

Most of my town read back in 140 was based on that.

[wgeurts]

It's also consistent with their meta albeit Xof but I can't speak for that

[Jingle]

I've found myself agreeing with Peta before multiple times and I believe have had the same progression for said thoughts yes I do believe it.

What posts of peta’s do you agree with?

[wgeurts]

Them liking RR for town very early on, I loved their switch to HBE as it was literally what I was considering just as their vote came up during my first reread, their added information on adorable, 299 on Cerb which is currently my standing too. The only thing I properly disagreed with was their early issues with you

[wgeurts]

Like, regarding your dislike of him.

Xof quite literally likes your mechanics stuff themselves. Koba is constantly speaking to your ears, any good team is scum or town. There post regarding the meat of cerb is hardly insidious. Unlike cerb Peta has notable stances: see HBE scum, RR town, me town, CSF town. You cannot at all say the same for Cerb.

[petapan]

ftr porkens is trending strongly toward what i would expect of him as scum - being lazy, shitposting, making excuses rather than delivering content

he doesn't really like playing scum and it shows

i think it's kinda more likely the jingle/princess dynamic is one jumping in the other's pocket and just by relative experience level i kinda feel like it'd be jingle who's the scum

my whole team was screaming at me that 465 is a horrible post twisting words in the most uncharitable way - i don't really have the patience for big back and forths as town but i'd probably be remiss to leave it unaddressed

[petapan]

We played in the generational family game off the top of my head. And how in the love of god did you think wgeurts’ wall was anything but garbage?

Mobile atm, but I do plan on it. But do you legitimately think anyone looks at that original wall and goes “this is compelling”?

brah you can't just come in and call posts garbage without support, what's wrong with it

[petapan]

(it's funny cuz it makes some nice, well-argued points that i think are coming from a townie, but i'm not convinced it makes hpe definite scum

[wgeurts]

I cannot be convinced that your quote case Jingle, undid all of HPE's thoughts towards Peta with no further note or explanation why, after that blatant posturing.

[wgeurts]

(it's funny cuz it makes some nice, well-argued points that i think are coming from a townie, but i'm not convinced it makes hpe definite scum

Definite scum doesn't exist it's day 1. But the 2nd best options in my eyes are significantly less compelling in scum-motive narrative, and secondly would provide far less information upon flipping.

[wgeurts]

Like, eliminating Jingle gives so little and loses a lot if wrong.

HPE has interactions regarding Fate, Porkens, myself, and Peta. There's also the wagons which spring up in competition, the people that didn't commit, and the people that went all for it. If, and I genuinely believe that likely, they flip red, this game is really easy sailing. If they flip green, if I'm not immediately mislynched, there's a lot of information to be gained and even if I do go out Day 2 I think we're left with enough associative information to be left in a good position. I am willing to stake myself on this

[petapan]

if it's wrong it gets rid of a person with bad reads

Spoiler:

kidding

[wgeurts]

if it's wrong it gets rid of a person with bad reads

Spoiler:

kidding

Kindly also put your money where your mouth is and go for someone too, assuming you're done reading.

[HighPrincessErinys]

i like the wall

Why as town are you even focused on whether or not people are "altogether interested" in a wagon or not anyway?

this bit in particular resonates with me because i think scum often get caught using this type of reasoning about what is/isn't a viable wagon

The wall is horribly written and I pain myself rereading and should have proof-read it

But yeah, for those who's eyes glazed over. What I don't like about HPE:

• They started the game nothing posting. All their posts appeared useful but gave no insight to what their reads could be, or anything that they later could be held accountable for.
  
• They only started giving reads under pressure, and have only ever given reads on people who are hot topic.
  
• Their reads do not make coherent sense. Their read on me is based of me misconstruing them: yet they acknowledge my clarifications made me look more town in the past, and have failed to point out where I'm misrepresenting them further and how it is scum motivated. They also claim that it looks like I'm pursuing them as low-hanging fruit, which would imply that they acknowledge their slot looks scummy and like an easy elimination option, which would mean my case makes sense... when their entire case against me is that it doesn't. They just don't like me because I'm pushing them imo.
  
• They're obsessed with who's voting them and whether or not they can wagons going whilst not being interested in pushing their own named scum-reads: see porkens.
  
• They floated porkens as a low-hanging scum read when pushed for any substance, then doubled down with absolute moonlogic dissonant with their scum read on me, conveniently after Jingle floated it as an option. Instead they go after Fate for things Porkens has also done, and also keep me as an option to vote despite having called me "more towny" prior. They abandon Fate as soon as a wagon does finally form as per the earlier stated objective, it doesn't add up.
  
• Their reads are all watered down and easy to correct as per the status quo, people that aren't part of the discourse, don't matter to them.
  
• Their 180 on Peta is absolutely filthy, and in the posts leading up to it you can quite evidently see behaviour that can be interpreted as positioning to back off their prior number 1 town read. They constantly use others reads to form their own, with little to no evidence that anything they're coming up with is original and not opportunistically staged.

My cobbled together address of the elephant in the room:

• Playstyle.
  
• Also playstyle. RR and CSF can verify these kinds of things as being how this one plays, and even this one can tell you that it tends to focus on specific people it finds scummy.
  
• My read on you is your weird straw-graspy murderpush among other weird trying-to-make-scum-up posts. More on low-hanging fruit in the Porkens point.
  
• This one wants to know if it can get a wagon going because a singular vote isn't going to apply any real pressure, making it kinda useless to use it on anyone this one isn't sure of, like you.
  
• This one believes it has an understanding of how Porkens and Fate play now, and that's "silly". Neither seems to be a very high-content poster or much of ones to elaborate on why they do the things they do, but this one was still figuring that out. Fate was ESPECIALLY doing nothing, so it threw a vote onto them that went nowhere of use as they didn't really stir from it. It went back to you as it realized that Fate and Porkens just Play Like That and that trying to strongly scumread them for it is just... eh. Which is why this one asks: Do you often try to elim people based on their playstyle? Because your choices of vote on me/Porkens/Fate really gives the impression you do, unless you don't? Because if you don't then it's low-hanging fruit to try and get the low-contents who are always low-content.
  
• Define "watered down", exactly, because my first thought is the things this one is talking about in the point above. And, hate to invoke it again but: Playstyle.
  
• Peta was an early top town who was replaced by Jingle, and then this one actually bothered to take a deep look at their ISO and it agreed with the idea of "peta isn't posting substantial content but is trying to
  look
  like it.". Reads change and fluctuate, that's normal. Furthermore, actually taking into account what others say is normal, and your point isn't entirely invalid but it's a he said she said of if it's opportunism or if this one just. Genuinely agrees with people. Which it wants to say is also another meta thing in that yeah it tends to follow others if it agrees with them on something.

If you haven't noticed, the trend here is a giant fucking clash of playstyles, with a very likely scum-motivation behind it as well. By your own admission you love deep analysis, this one does not, and neither do Porkens or Fate. It will be admit that Cerb does not seem the type to be as low-content as he is (even if it has no experience with him), but either way invoking my meta or my playstyle constantly is tiring, but it also highlights my point.

“Tedious”? Dang.

Can you for once actually comment on the game, actually give thoughts on what's happening, instead of being obnoxious?

And something way less important: This is exactly why this one said that about trying to read Porkens now that it knows his deal.

[petapan]

if it's wrong it gets rid of a person with bad reads

Spoiler:

kidding

Kindly also put your money where your mouth is and go for someone too, assuming you're done reading.

i'm not lol

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I also refuse to share a tier with adorable, I've been way scummier

I thought you were scumreading Adorable though or did that change?

[wgeurts]

Stop trying to utterly straw-man my push on you as "playstyle", I am solely talking about the intent behind your actions, actionable things which you posted and done within this thread.

If you're actually town you'd be trying to clarify what's in your head, not this weird as fudge dismissal crumpets.

You'd be telling me who you do potentially think is town. Telling me who you do potentially think is scum. Clarify your current stance on Fate and Porkens beyond just that they're silly, I know that, are they town or scum silly though? You would give any stance whatsoever regarding Cerb, CSF, RR and Adorable. You would be trying your hardest to explain what happened in your head that changed your mind on Peta so radically.

You'd be telling me what about Jingle's post sold you, why your thoughts changed.

Not telling me "reads change and fluctuate, that's normal"

This isn't playstyle, there's a bloody pattern of behaviour that doesn't make sense as town and does make sense as scum.

Even this defence is weird as hell if coming from town. This lacks a complete drive of any town intent.

[wgeurts]

I also refuse to share a tier with adorable, I've been way scummier

I thought you were scumreading Adorable though or did that change?

Null to null-town, they were in the pile with everyone else I didn't have enough to gauge alongside Fate, Porkens and Cerb at the time. I'm going to cover my other reads later when I'm less wound up about HPE

[wgeurts]

I also refuse to share a tier with adorable, I've been way scummier

I thought you were scumreading Adorable though or did that change?

Thoughts on everything else I've posted as it's not the kind of "don't comment" content

[petapan]

This one believes it has an understanding of how Porkens and Fate play now, and that's "silly". Neither seems to be a very high-content poster or much of ones to elaborate on why they do the things they do, but this one was still figuring that out. Fate was ESPECIALLY doing nothing, so it threw a vote onto them that went nowhere of use as they didn't really stir from it. It went back to you as it realized that Fate and Porkens just Play Like That and that trying to strongly scumread them for it is just... eh. Which is why this one asks: Do you often try to elim people based on their playstyle? Because your choices of vote on me/Porkens/Fate really gives the impression you do, unless you don't? Because if you don't then it's low-hanging fruit to try and get the low-contents who are always low-content.

fate is very much doing things and imo it's uncharitable to describe him as not - you might not like it or find it hard to read into but he's said stuff (towny stuff imo)

i think you shouldn't make assumptions about people play just based on the game you're in - porkens can often be low-effort, but he's more than capable of producing substance as town (note: his early posts in that game had him using chatGPT as a gimmick, he drops it at iso #13 so skip there), and the fact that he hasn't done so here and seemingly hasn't read the game despite having multiple teammates who could help him, is legitimately scummy


i also think if you're going to chalk things up to a clash of playstyles, why can't you assume it would be town vs town and they're misreading you due to not understanding how you play? not every push

has

to have malicious intent. i think wgeurts legitimately believes their whole iso-dive case trying to bury you, the way they talk about it feels like genuine belief over

[Cat Scratch Fever]

wgeurts can you comment on cerb's meta especially if he's typically reticent with his reads a la 369? I would normally check but I have limited time at the moment

I do not like his posting but he is correct in that he comes into action later in the game, it has been some years, but if he doesn't step up D2 it's a definite point to criticise. He's a bad day 1 vote, but you may note he's rather low down in my reads. Basically, null, maybe a bit scum leaning, but by far pending further action.

All right, why is he on the lower side then if this is within his townrange?