Open 100 - F + E x 2 + TOG OVER! before 712

[hp [leaves]]

I don't like how the mod hasn't given an answer to my question yet ._.

Also surprised that you haven't noticed the double-targetted kills make the difference. If we find out a group is whether killing or idling, that's a great info that we can use (with some WIFOM).

vote count

popsofctown (2): doc, peter?
doc (2): seraphim, zazier
hp [leaves] (2): wall-e, tenchi
soveliss (1): budja
tenchi (1): popsofctown

not voting: hp[leaves], sekinj, blueheaven, soveliss

[Doc]

unvote, vote: Tenchi

Wall-E disagreed and then Doc seconded it. What really poked my curiosity was how easy it was for Doc to drop defense for HP, since I shared the same opinion as he did.

Fail. Read what I say a little more thoroughly next time. Please point out where I say that I share Wall-E's opinion on the matter? Considering it a valid stance isn't the same as agreeing with it. I don't like misreps.

With that, I decided to ask him a few questions, hoping he can make me understand what Wall-E's point was and hoping I'd get information on what he really thinks on the issue. I think I succeeded on that. And what I think about it? I think it was a dissociation from HP.

What was? Conceding that Wall-E's argument made sense, yet holding to my own opinion that it was a slight pro-town tell? If considering someone's actions marginally pro-town is disassociation, then I don't know what the hell isn't. Your accusations are weak, my friend.

But I'm not really sure, that's why I didn't even put an FoS on Doc and just let the issue be. I didn't think it was THAT big, that's why I didn't even bother to say anything about it.

Your lack of any mention of this implies to me that your suspicion is contrived.

Why am I saying it now, because I don't see any reason to keep that suspicion to myself. At least you guys know where I stand, though at the same time I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.

"I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily" isn't a very pro-town play early game. Nor ever. Perhaps you don't want to stand out of the crowd with your mad scumhunting skillz?

I'll not even waste a comment on your impatience. People have lives (well, most people. I just sit here all day and press refresh every five seconds ;))

--------

Zazie, you seem to have made it clear that you have suspicions. Do you feel I am one of them? If not, why use only FoSes instead of your vote?

[ZazieR]

Korts, I'll take everything during the RVS to start this game. Even if it's something small, I'll use it as an attack. So yes, at this moment you are one of the players I will look at.
And the list will probably be up tomorrow. Anyone else interested ?

I just sit here all day and press refresh every five seconds

I know how this is. Every four seconds to see if someone has posted something useful in one of your games.
Oh wait, you said five seconds. Then I have no idea what you're talking about .

Actually, I have a life, although it won't be noticed as I'm way too much online here .

[Soveliss]

And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know this?

I dont know what the motives for the mafia or wolves would be for knowing this, but what would town find useful from knowing this?

Tenchi's vote on HP comes off strange to me. Seems he is trying to park his vote on the easiest target he can find. HP has been the prime discussion thus far and was a easy target.

Vote Tenchi

For trying to start a bandwagon on a easy target.

[Tenchi]

And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know this?

I dont know what the motives for the mafia or wolves would be for knowing this, but what would town find useful from knowing this?

Are you reading everything?

[/quote]
Tenchi's vote on HP comes off strange to me. Seems he is trying to park his vote on the easiest target he can find. HP has been the prime discussion thus far and was a easy target.[/b]

Who says I was targetting him? Parking yes, starting an inquisition on him no. And besides, if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why, and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see no other suspicious behavior, only certain associations.

Vote Tenchi

For trying to start a bandwagon on a easy target.

No. You're the one who's bandwagonning. Or at least I think so. I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.

Vote: Soveliss

[Tenchi]

unvote, vote: Tenchi

Wall-E disagreed and then Doc seconded it. What really poked my curiosity was how easy it was for Doc to drop defense for HP, since I shared the same opinion as he did.

Fail. Read what I say a little more thoroughly next time. Please point out where I say that I share Wall-E's opinion on the matter? Considering it a valid stance isn't the same as agreeing with it. I don't like misreps.

True, you didn't share the same opinion as he did. I forgot about the part where you answered my question. However, you DID quickly drop your defense against HP.

But I'm not really sure, that's why I didn't even put an FoS on Doc and just let the issue be. I didn't think it was THAT big, that's why I didn't even bother to say anything about it.

Your lack of any mention of this implies to me that your suspicion is contrived.

Not contrived. It was incomplete. I didn't have any conclusions to make. As you said, it was very weak.

Why am I saying it now, because I don't see any reason to keep that suspicion to myself. At least you guys know where I stand, though at the same time I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.

"I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily" isn't a very pro-town play early game. Nor ever. Perhaps you don't want to stand out of the crowd with your mad scumhunting skillz?
[/quote]

Actually, kinda yes. I usually become scum at most of my games and I am very good at it. When I become town, I get lynched first day or first night most of the time. I went to MafiaScum to hopefully improve my "mad scumhunting skillz".

[Budja]

Well you are doing a good job at attracting suspicion so far.

Don't claim you seem scummy because you always do. That holds no water. Defend yourself properly.

FOS Tenchi

However Soveliss does also seem scummy. First he follow-votes HP now it seems he is follow-voting Tenchi.

Confirm vote Soveliss

[Tenchi]

Well you are doing a good job at attracting suspicion so far.

Don't claim you seem scummy because you always do. That holds no water. Defend yourself properly.

FOS Tenchi

Thanks. I sincerely appreciate that.

Well If I clarify my answer about "not being protown with not rocking the boat unnecessarily":

Well, if there was one thing I wanted to learn here in MafiaScum was the thing about trying to not get in the way (which was what I interpreted as "not rocking the boat unnecessarily"), I have never really learned how to do that in a long term game because I'm "impatient" (because I'm so used at being aggressive at my quicker games). If I am to help you guys, I'd rather stand a bit back because, my scumdar needs a LOT of polishing (i.e. half-baked suspicion on Doc). Hopefully I improve as this game goes along.

Well at least I saw a voting pattern on Soveliss through that whole thing.

[ThAdmiral]

I don't like how the mod hasn't given an answer to my question yet ._.

You'll find out tomorrow...

[popsofctown]

So, i've been trying out this new scumhunting strategy for the first stage of the game. I dub it "The gerbil poking method". You see, all mafia players are just little gerbils running around in their glass tank, clambering over eachother and running in circles. So i figure, i should go around and poke each gerbil with a little pressure, until *pop*, one of them poops because the little thing is scared.

Extended metaphors aside, Tenchi's reaction to my pressure seems very scummy to me.
a. Resorts to extremely flimsy defenses, "I can't keep my mouth shut so I'm the easy lynch"
b. Misrepping Doc earns him scum points
c. OMGUSing Soveliss
d. He claims that in his history he always "does very well" as scum but "gets lynched day 1 or night 1" when he's town. What? If this is truly a pattern, it can't be one he should expect us to follow. He seems to be implying that since he usually gets by as scum and gets caught as town, then he's probably innocent when he seems guilty and is probably guilty if he seems innocent. All who think this is a reasonable standard for evaluation Tenchi for the rest of the game, say "Aye".


Alright, now for the other side of the coin. While i do think there are definitely some real reasons to be suspicious of Tenchi, I'm not totally sure he's the right lynch. I had a really strong gut feeling a couple pages ago that I'd be able to get a rise out of Tenchi. I'm not sure if that gut feeling came from me sensing him to be scummy early on (I'm >50% sure this is the case, especially when i recall the fact he was confusing the thread for me), or me sensing him to be an emotional village-idiot. In either case, I would do it again, getting a rise out of a player provides lots of information and it's a good thing. I'm just concerned that maybe I'm hunting village idiots and not scum. Like i said.... 'tis a very new gerbilly method.

[Peter?]

Sorry about lack of activity so far, my street's power was knocked out yesterday and the council's only just taken the time to restore it. Woo, sitting in the dark. I'll catch up with the game tomorrow, as I have a party to be at within the next half hour on pain of death.

[Doc]

Not contrived. It was incomplete. I didn't have any conclusions to make. As you said, it was very weak.

Ok, fair 'nuff.

Well, if there was one thing I wanted to learn here in MafiaScum was the thing about trying to not get in the way (which was what I interpreted as "not rocking the boat unnecessarily"), I have never really learned how to do that in a long term game because I'm "impatient" (because I'm so used at being aggressive at my quicker games). If I am to help you guys, I'd rather stand a bit back because, my scumdar needs a LOT of polishing (i.e. half-baked suspicion on Doc). Hopefully I improve as this game goes along.

That wiki article is entirely subjective, in my irrelevant opinion. My stance is that every town's duty is to find scum, and the only way to do that is to evoke reactions. One way to do that is be aggressive. Not rocking the boat does not do that, though. Be your aggressive self.

I agree with pops' summary of Tenchi. However:

Alright, now for the other side of the coin. While i do think there are definitely some real reasons to be suspicious of Tenchi, I'm not totally sure he's the right lynch.

What purpose does it serve to be even talking about a lynch? No-one mentioned him being the right lynch, therefore your comment that he may not be is suspect because you had no reason to say it. Unless, of course, you were trying to subconsciously plant the thought that people should be thinking about who to lynch right about... now.

Also, why are you pre-emptively defending your previous action to get a rise out of Tenchi? Your whole post feels contrived and cautious to me, while your previous actions didn't imply that you were intending to be cautious.

[ZazieR]

@Soveliss
The mafia and wolfes are probably already planning who to kill. I've seen one game now in which day talk was allowed for scum and when the quick topics were later revealed, you could see that they discussed everything there. This included who to kill. If we know which of the bad guys killed a certain player we can look for clues. But if we don't know this, it will be much more difficult. For example:

Night one:
Doc killed
Zazie killed

Night two:
Tenchi killed
Pops killed


Night one:
Doc, teared apart.
Zazie, shot by a bullet.

Night two:
Tenchi, teared apart
Pops, shot by a bullet.


Which of these examples will give more clues for town?

Didn't like Tenchi's reason to vote hp, don't like Soveliss's reason to vote Tenchi.

Are you reading everything?

Why are you asking this to Soveliss?

Who says I was targetting him? Parking yes, starting an inquisition on him no. And besides,

if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why

,

and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see

no other suspicious behavior

, only certain associations.

Should the bolded matter?
If you don't see any suspicious behaviour, then why did you change your vote?
See the underlined part, explain the 'other'.

No. You're the one who's bandwagonning. Or at least I think so. I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.

Normally, I don't believe in OMGUS, but this is OMGUS.

Actually, kinda yes. I usually become scum at most of my games and I am very good at it. When I become town, I get lynched first day or first night most of the time. I went to MafiaScum to hopefully improve my "mad scumhunting skillz".

So if you survive this day and night, you're scum ?

Well, if there was one thing I wanted to learn here in MafiaScum was the thing about trying to not get in the way (which was what I interpreted as "not rocking the boat unnecessarily"), I have never really learned how to do that in a long term game because I'm "impatient" (because I'm so used at being aggressive at my quicker games). If I am to help you guys, I'd rather stand a bit back because, my scumdar needs a LOT of polishing (i.e. half-baked suspicion on Doc). Hopefully I improve as this game goes along.

How do you want to find scum like this? The job of a townie is to try to find scum. Not to protect himself from a lynch. If you have to be lynched for the greater good, then that will be needed. But at least you have tried your best to help us. You, protecting yourself, isn't helping at all. It only draws attention to you. What can the town do with your self-protect posts if you turn up town?

I'm just concerned that maybe I'm hunting village idiots and not scum.

Uhm...

[blueheaven]

What tenchi is saying sounds like, "normally if i sound like scum, i am not"...sounds like a desperate way to defend yourself at this early stage.

And mod says we'll find out tomorrow about the killings. Does this mean he will tell us, or is there a deadline? I'm really not eager to settle for any lynch right now.

[Budja]

What the mod is saying is that we will find out if the mafia and werewolf kills show up the same.
If they are revealed, I think it could help he town but not until the final days where a pattern could be deduced. Of course this is only my opinion.

Pops seems to like his WIFOM, pick the side you feel is more likely but keep your mind open.

Tenchi is suspicious but lets not over-focus on him. Many people here haven't posted much of substance yet, so their is no need to rush. (not that anyone was rushing , I am just suggesting we don't)

[popsofctown]

Also, why are you pre-emptively defending your previous action to get a rise out of Tenchi? Your whole post feels contrived and cautious to me, while your previous actions didn't imply that you were intending to be cautious.

Well, his wagon was picking up speed very quickly. I thought he might be at L-1, so i looked through the thread and counted votes, and while I was doing that i planned out how i would explain my unvote for if he was at L-1. He wasn't at L-1, but i decided to give that explanation I'd come up with anyway pretty much. Make enough sense?
I definitely understand it seeming odd for me to have a "hammerphase" tone when he's not there yet, this explanation is honestly why.

[Tenchi]

Are you reading everything?

Why are you asking this to Soveliss?

(That post kinda comes off as a bit rude, sorry)

I was annoyed. There has been like a couple of posts explaining why a revelation of the MO would be helpful for town, including that other Wiki-like summary I made. It makes me think he's not reading everything... or maybe he's just selectively reading. He was updated with my status as an "easy lynch/bandwagon" but he wasn't updated on the issue of why the MO would be helpful for town.

That combined with his jumping on me (yep, slight OMGUS), led to my vote. Most suspicious thing I've seen so far.

Who says I was targetting him? Parking yes, starting an inquisition on him no. And besides,

if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why

,

and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see

no other suspicious behavior

, only certain associations.

Should the bolded matter?
If you don't see any suspicious behaviour, then why did you change your vote?
See the underlined part, explain the 'other'.

That was about me unvoting HP. Please read it in context of what I was answering. I found something suspicious on Soveliss, hence my change of vote (see reason above).

Actually, kinda yes. I usually become scum at most of my games and I am very good at it. When I become town, I get lynched first day or first night most of the time. I went to MafiaScum to hopefully improve my "mad scumhunting skillz".

So if you survive this day and night, you're scum ?

If my lynch would help town if I turn up townie, sure!

What can the town do with your self-protect posts if you turn up town?

I don't know yet, but at least I have to do something. Nobody is going to defend me except myself. I know I am a mislynch, so that's the best way I can help -- prevent that.

[Tenchi]

Alright, now for the other side of the coin. While i do think there are definitely some real reasons to be suspicious of Tenchi, I'm not totally sure he's the right lynch.

What purpose does it serve to be even talking about a lynch? No-one mentioned him being the right lynch, therefore your comment that he may not be is suspect because you had no reason to say it. Unless, of course, you were trying to subconsciously plant the thought that people should be thinking about who to lynch right about... now.

Also, why are you pre-emptively defending your previous action to get a rise out of Tenchi? Your whole post feels contrived and cautious to me, while your previous actions didn't imply that you were intending to be cautious.

I also find the statement a bit odd. He lays out some of my "scummy actions" then he says something that sounds like a quick washing of hands in case I get lynched, laying an excuse to say "OMG LOL I told you "I wasn't totally sure he was the right lynch!"". The way the post was made was totally contradictory, if not ironic.

[Wall-E]

Vote: Tenchi

Let's see what this does.

[Tenchi]

Nooooo

If you guys are gonna lynch me, can it wait until tomorrow...?

KTHXBYE!

[Wall-E]

Can you give me a reason to change my vote? I'm simply unconvinced that what you're doing isn't a huge clusterfuck distraction.

[Tenchi]

Nope.

I just don't want to get lynched on my birthday. :-p

[Wall-E]

Happy birthday!

I'm a huge Tenchi Muyo fan!

Confirm vote: Tenchi

[Tenchi]

*hugs Wall-E*

[Tenchi]

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

Confirm Vote: Soveliss