Open 876 - Fire and Ice - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.23

Votecount 1.23

Kokichi Oma (4): Oclaxian Empire, biancospino, Kokichi Oma, Aureal
Black (4): Enchant, usesPython, Doctor Drew, HighPrincessErinys
usesPython (2): The Bulge, Malakittens
Malakittens (1): osuka
The Bulge (1): furtiveglance

Not Voting (1): Black

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-20 18:48:28).

[Black]

This one mostly means the "hmm maybe its townread".

I think Koki could still be scum but the self vote really throws me off, and I don't think he would make sense as an Aureal buddy. I'm not sure here but I'm not as convinced in Koki!scum as I was

[Doctor Drew]

This one mostly means the "hmm maybe its townread".

I think Koki could still be scum but the self vote really throws me off, and I don't think he would make sense as an Aureal buddy. I'm not sure here but I'm not as convinced in Koki!scum as I was

You screamed from the mountain tops about how terrible a read Koki had on you, and even really abused AtE.

So what changed in your read?

[Doctor Drew]

UNVOTE: Koki

Still ok with this lim but I don't really want a hammer tonight

Again, no mention of Aureal here.

There were 3 posts in that sequence and you conveniently left out the one about Aureal

I'll ask you the same question as HPE. If Koki isn't my partner, what is the scum motivation behind me doing this?

You unvoted after you saw Aureal vote them.

You didn't mention anything about suddenly townreading them.

You didn't mention anything about aureal's vote.

You did mention that you didn't want a hammer overnight.

You tell me the conclusion.

[Black]

You unvoted after you saw Aureal vote them.

You didn't mention anything about suddenly townreading them.

You didn't mention anything about aureal's vote.

You did mention that you didn't want a hammer overnight.

You tell me the conclusion.

What are you even getting at here? Like...nice recap of events?

Re: suddenly townreading them - the thought crossed my mind when he voted himself but it wasn't until after I talked with Aureal that I really considered he might be town

Re: mentioning Aureal's vote - not yet I didn't. I wanted to talk to her first. Notice I brought up the vote when we started talking

Re: not wanting to hammer overnight - I just talked about this. I didn't want anyone to hammer so I unvoted. You still can't figure out the scum motivation behind this can you?

Conclusion? I'm town that wanted time to sort Aureal

[usesPython]

This one mostly means the "hmm maybe its townread".

I think Koki could still be scum but the self vote really throws me off, and I don't think he would make sense as an Aureal buddy. I'm not sure here but I'm not as convinced in Koki!scum as I was

Quoting this for the later case since this is the biggest scumslip this game, not ok with a Kokichi lim btw

-A

[Black]

You screamed from the mountain tops about how terrible a read Koki had on you, and even really abused AtE.

So what changed in your read?

Koki having a terrible read on me ultimately isn't alignment indicative. I didn't want to think he was just trolling but it's a real possibility

[Black]

This one mostly means the "hmm maybe its townread".

I think Koki could still be scum but the self vote really throws me off, and I don't think he would make sense as an Aureal buddy. I'm not sure here but I'm not as convinced in Koki!scum as I was

Quoting this for the later case since this is the biggest scumslip this game, not ok with a Kokichi lim btw

-A

This is a performative post. You're doing this for the audience. The "slip" will be there tomorrow, you didn't have to quote this

[usesPython]

Faster to ISO myself than it is to ISO you, it's essentially just egoing the post

-A

[Black]

Faster to ISO myself than it is to ISO you, it's essentially just egoing the post

-A

I already know you're going to try to spin it as "Black is only solving for one pair! She's scum!"

Hopefully you have something better than that

[usesPython]

I already know you're going to try to spin it as "Black is only solving for one pair! She's scum!"

Hopefully you have something better than that

Yeah pretty much. Town is genuinely solving for 4 scum, scum is genuinely solving for 2 scum that have to be paired. I think you were genuinely solving there, which is why that's the biggest scumslip since whether Kokichi and Aureal were paired is completely irrelevant to sorting either for town!Black but extremely relevant for scum!Black

[usesPython]

Like in town!Blacks world Python/Kokichi + Aureal/??? should have been completely possible

[Black]

Your argument falls apart because I still think Koki could be scum. I just don't think he's scum with Aureal.

Pedit: Python/Koki is possible, but you have to realize that including Aureal into my worldview changes things. I still think Bianco and you are scum, and Koki was already getting pushed out by the self vote

[Aureal]

Like in our previous game I pretty much just sheeped Python on day two after they friendly neighbored me

I think it's a little different there no? You knew python was town. You don't know if I'm town

Was your post about me being locktown truthful or in jest?

I don't

know

if you're town, but I have been townreading you for the most part. "Locktown" is an overstatement of course (I'm not Andante ) but I am finding myself agreeing with a lot of what you're doing, broken up by occasional bouts of 'huh I wonder where the heck that came from'. But there's no way we can be on the same page 100% of the time ofc, not with the way you're moving things along. Which is itself towny.

Do you think Koki is scum? If so then why?

Re: Enchant - I see what you're implying. Enchant not hammering when he could have feels bad. I'm still not sure how I feel about you trying to point me in a different direction though

Uh, it's not a different direction? You were clearly having an issue with my vote, so I offered insight into part of the reasoning for it, and wondered if you noticed the same thing. I wouldn't be voting Kokichi if I didn't think there was a decent chance he flips scum. I've complained of his refusal to engage with basically anything but tunnelling you- that's easy enough behavior for scum who don't want to be linked to a partner so I can't just give it a pass. I noted a thought earlier that maybe he was doing it as cover because he doesn't expect you to actually get voted out over it and he can use your continued existence as proof that he's not scum because clearly he'd nightkill you if he was scum. And the "oh just kill me" self-voting... same thing, really. It's not protown behavior to vote yourself when there's a wagon on you. It's manipulative, trying to get people to stop voting him because "womg must be tilted town." When I came back, in my first game I made an RVS self-vote with a "ha ha, look I'm so suspicious because I'm claiming to be a newbie but I joined in 2005" joke and I got crap about it from not one but two people because self-voting is baaaaaaad, and that was literally my first post with obviously no wagon.

And then there was the Enchant thing to boot. Yeah, I feel comfortable with my vote here.

[usesPython]

To repeat myself, whether or on Aureal/Kokichi are groupscum should have no bearing on the tr towards either for town!Black, it's only scum!Black who knows that she's solving for one team instead of two

[Black]

Sorry Aureal, I actually didn't realize that's what you were getting at with the Enchant thing. I probably should have gone to sleep like an hour ago

I'll respond to the other stuff in the morning ~

[usesPython]

Your argument falls apart because I still think Koki could be scum. I just don't think he's scum with Aureal.

Pedit: Python/Koki is possible, but you have to realize that including Aureal into my worldview changes things. I still think Bianco and you are scum, and Koki was already getting pushed out by the self vote

I have no problem with your scumreads, I have a problem with you tring kokichi because they're not paired with Aureal (or the other way around hard to double check on phone)

[Black]

To repeat myself, whether or on Aureal/Kokichi are groupscum should have no bearing on the tr towards either for town!Black, it's only scum!Black who knows that she's solving for one team instead of two

It's not a slip. I'm still solving for two teams even if I'm not doing it very well

A slip would've been "I don't think Koki is scum because Aureal can't be his partner"

Instead you got "I still think Koki might be scum but I don't think Aureal his partner"

[Black]

Your argument falls apart because I still think Koki could be scum. I just don't think he's scum with Aureal.

Pedit: Python/Koki is possible, but you have to realize that including Aureal into my worldview changes things. I still think Bianco and you are scum, and Koki was already getting pushed out by the self vote

I have no problem with your scumreads, I have a problem with you tring kokichi because they're not paired with Aureal (or the other way around hard to double check on phone)

You're misrepping me real bad here

[usesPython]

To repeat myself, whether or on Aureal/Kokichi are groupscum should have no bearing on the tr towards either for town!Black, it's only scum!Black who knows that she's solving for one team instead of two

It's not a slip. I'm still solving for two teams even if I'm not doing it very well

A slip would've been "I don't think Koki is scum because Aureal can't be his partner"

Instead you got "I still think Koki might be scum but I don't think Aureal his partner"

You gave a tr on Aureal

[usesPython]

wait no I misread, you tr Kokichi

[usesPython]

This one mostly means the "hmm maybe its townread".

I think Koki could still be scum but the self vote really throws me off, and I don't think he would make sense as an Aureal buddy. I'm not sure here but I'm not as convinced in Koki!scum as I was

Faster to ISO myself than it is to ISO you, it's essentially just egoing the post

-A

I already know you're going to try to spin it as "Black is only solving for one pair! She's scum!"

Hopefully you have something better than that

To repeat myself, whether or on Aureal/Kokichi are groupscum should have no bearing on the tr towards either for town!Black, it's only scum!Black who knows that she's solving for one team instead of two

It's not a slip. I'm still solving for two teams even if I'm not doing it very well

A slip would've been "I don't think Koki is scum because Aureal can't be his partner"

Instead you got "I still think Koki might be scum but I don't think Aureal his partner"

You're contradicting yourself here, you saw the slip yourself so how can you call it not a slip

[Black]

No, I went back to see what you could possibly spin as a slip. You're fabricating the contradiction

[Black]

Tell me how I'm not solving for 2 scum teams when I say Kokichi might still be scum, just not with Aureal?

[usesPython]

You just told Drew you dont think Kokichi is scum