large normal 243: lindOVER

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

vote count 2.4 !

Andante (5):

Flavor Leaf, Venmar, Bub Bidderskins, Gimli, GuyInFreezer

sheepsaysmeep (2):

MalcolmTucker, Save The Dragons

Venmar (1):

NJAC

Enchant (1):

Greeting

curiouskarmadog (1):

Enchant

Bub Bidderskins (1):

Andante

not voting (5):

Kowahbunga, Skygazer, sheepsaysmeep, Hu Tao, curiouskarmadog

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to compost someone. day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-04-22 23:54:03)

moderateur notes

• Save The Dragons is VLA until monday, Gimli is VLA until tuesday

[Kowahbunga]

I still haven't had a chance to catch up properly. Should be in the next few hours. From what I've skimmed, I'll be putting my vote on Andante as well when I'm caught up.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: venmar

[Flavor Leaf]

okay will catch up tonight or tomorrow...doesnt look like a lot as occurred.

also..

Long time no see, sheep. It’sa me, the Boonskiies

HA, I have played with you before, Beisdes Cephirr, I thought everyone I have played with in the day has long since moved on. Now I dont remember ANYTHING about your play, but I did recalled your avatar, before I looked it up.

Nice. Long time ago for sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao went from 'not sure on Venmar' to 'this is the right play for the day' without having any sort of explanation for that trajectory. It's purely responsive imo.

[Flavor Leaf]

Only thing that could be close to the reason is that they outed that they got targeted by a Loud role.

I posted my analysis on why that reason is cap too here. The 'don't want to reveal info to scum' reason is flawed based on if Venmar is doing it as scum, they already know the role. It doesn't make sense if Venmar is scum to do so.

That implies Hu Tao is pushing Venmar for something they were trying to use as miselim opportunity rather than actually want them. If they had more reasons, fine, but look at Hu Tao's ISO. There's literally nothing besides what I've quoted that says why. Just a bunch of repeating 'Venmar, Venmar'.

I looked through Hu Tao’s ISO, and they have been repeatedly saying Venmar is the right call today.

However, these are the only possible reasons I can see for Venmar being scum at all.

Spoiler:

Also I'm not voting venmar at the moment cause i want to give them a 2nd look and I think we can solve way more things today.

I still think outing is bad. Unless there is a cc for the reason there is no night kill then we believe the claim. I believe it so far

Truth is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action and honestly that's all I know about that :shrug:

the fact you instantly outed that is was NJAC... instead of just "LOUD PERSON VISITED ME!!!" what if it was a doc? like, if NJAC is town, you literally just told scum that NJAC is a doc/cop...
so honestly, for that reason alone, I kinda just want to
VOTE: Venmar

Yeah that was a very VERY bad move Venmar.

it seems odd to me that this should be the “way we go today” when the only thing I can see as a possible reason is that they claimed the NJAC Loud Role, which like, fine, I see why people can think that’s not the correct move, but I really don’t see it as that bad, and can easily see townie doing this possibly more than scum.

Why would scum need to out this?

The argument is that we want to keep info away from scum, but if Venmar was scum they would already know the role, meaning that entire argument is flawed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Adante (#510 to #515 is very scatterbrained and I don't fully buy the logic behind reading Hu Tao as scum for their interactions with Glitch, but i can't pin this behavior to either town or scum tbh. the subsequent hounding of players for thoughts on Hu Tao I also read as both as town following a tunnel read or scum getting easy engagement. #573 and #574 don't sit well with me either, former is an oversight since Flavor did give some thoughts on Hao, that alone is null but latter post feels suspiciously defensive. outburst on page 24 feels a bit more townie though, i see town pushing for activity more in this scenario. subsequent tunneling and justification being based on hao being inactive is then less attractive to me. the logic of activity = town and lurking = scum is really double downed on later on and idk what to make of it tbh. this is a read i'd lean scum if i received some convincing but tbh this could just be town with some goofy logic i dont jive with)

Venmar posted this way early into the game, and I actually like this a lot because I was thinking there was something off with Andante, and Andante pushing Hu Tao was rough and didn't feel genuine. I feel like this was Andante/Hu Tao doing low stakes distancing, something that Andante does do as Scum.

Venmar says that Andante asked for my thoughts on Hu Tao after I give some posts which is odd because I did give my thoughts on Hu Tao already..

It just really comes off as extremely performative on a reglance.

On top of all this, a lot of times there's a townie stuck in the center of a Scum group. I had this happen early game in Demon Slayer, but broke out of it as the game went on. I see this happen often.

When I pushed Malcolm in a game a while back, I death tunneled him, and he ended up being town, but scum were surrounding him, so I was right to feel scum energy.

I think Gimli was in that slot this game, being surrounded by Andante/Hu Tao scum. It's super easy to be in a pocket Day 1 with no flips.

As soon as Gimli started breaking out of the pocket, I started to get pocketed slightly, and Andante started to reward me, and punish Gimli, completely changing the gamestate dynamics.

[Enchant]

Help i townread people townreading me, is this deadly disease and how much i have to live if so?

[Enchant]

I am still cool with my vote.

No one will join i know

[Andante]

VOTE: sheepsaymeep

[Skygazer]

I am still cool with my vote.

No one will join i know

i will if only to prod dodge

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

[Flavor Leaf]

What are people’s CKD reasons?

[Skygazer]

to prod dodge

[Flavor Leaf]

I think CKD, Kowah, and hopefully Sheep would be down to come onto Andante.

Idk. I just feel like nobody else is giving any reasons for anyone else, and scum are in a rough spot having lost Kitty, got a no kill, and then now are losing their bigger manipulator in Andante.

I think that makes sense with Kitty getting bussed because it saved the scum who was actually doing more for the game, and was a lurk scum basically.

I’m pretty lock on with Andante/Hu Tao, I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but I do believe I’m giving new analysis often.

Like I have focused on Hu Tao the past couple days instead of Andante, and reads still evolving.

[Venmar]

Tbh Sheeps entry into the game is mostly null to me if not a bi sus just cause I am usually instantly weary of someone who just hands up that many TRead, but many of them also sound non-committal or fency. Will probably evaluate more once sheep is actually caught up.

Hu Tao continuing to push me for no reason is but at least they finally voted me

[Venmar]

Hu Tao went from 'not sure on Venmar' to 'this is the right play for the day' without having any sort of explanation for that trajectory. It's purely responsive imo.

They've been saying how I'm the vote for a while without voting for me until recently actually I think

What are people’s CKD reasons?

I didn't like his reasons for pushing me, seems like he over-focused on my NJAC outing and NJAC voting me at day start, it felt a bit wolfy in how quickly they made the incorrect assumption and tried to push the narrative that NJAC was informed voting me when NJAC themselves hadn't made that push himself.

Which actually reminds me, I forgot to respond to this post:

CKD I don't think is trying to gamesolve organically,

lets talk organic scum hunting. what are some examples of this in your mind of this.

for example, Bub, mentioned....hey, Venmar wasnt posting during the KT wagon that could be suspicious....I thought.."hmmm, lets check...he wasnt, was he posting ANYWHERE...nope". So after I looked that up, I asked Bub if he had any OTHER reason to think you might be scum

now. is the organic or inorganic scum hunting? what are some of examples of YOU organically looking for scum?

Im I actually trying to look for scum, or posting bullshit like..

Actually I don't feel like reading 30 pages can someone just loop me in or point to things I should care about

And my response to an example of inorganic scumhunting is the explanation/example I gave above this quote tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, Venmar’s 3115 is exactly how I feel on both of those things.

Sheep’s is null because I know Sheep’s got a solid scum game, but they also get to play catch up for a little bit. Regardless of their alignment, I wouldn’t expect them to stay that way.


My main thing for thinking Venmar is town based on their play specifically rather than other slots in correlation to theirs is that they don’t seem to be doing anything scummy objectively. Like they aren’t pushing for anything in particular, rather saying some thoughts, and then voting somewhere.

Their votes have aligned with me a lot here, while having different reads here and there, but that just feels like that’s what they’re thinking. I don’t understand what Venmar would be going for if they were scum on an objective level.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gimli, Venmar, and Kowahbunga are probably my strongest town reads right now

[NJAC]

Hey everyone!

Can you please order these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Eira, Sky}

[GuyInFreezer]

{Malcolm, Eira, Enchant, Venmar, Sky, GIF}

[Flavor Leaf]

Andante, Hu Tao, NJAC, GIF, Enchant, Malcolm.

Whatever gets put on the most lists is likely town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey everyone!

Can you please order these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Eira, Sky}

Oh these players. I thought you meant to put our 6 scummiest players in a list, my bad.

Uh…..

GIF, Enchant, Malcolm, Eira, Sky, Venmar

[Kowahbunga]

Vig should shoot Andante

I scum read this.

[Kowahbunga]

Why vig when we can fade

I town read this.

[Kowahbunga]

im not really sure if i wanna compost andante

Okay cool, now for your next trick tell us why.