Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Tolmides]

Vote Count: (above due to length of post)
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (0)
corporate - (0)
Gamma - (1) jerseygoomba
jerseygoomba - (1) Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (1) Gamma
Nekka-Lucifer - (3) zachattack, Wall-E, Tolmides
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (5) Nekka-Lucifer, My Milked Eek, corporate, WhereIsTony, Budja
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

Okay...

Let me list my feelings on you all (god, sounds like a ...)

Gamma - no, we shouldn't be killing him tonight. No matter what he is, we'll be in a better position re: him tomorrow. But he's behaving erratically: he was the fourth vote for Atlas, FoSed himself (?), called vig and then tried to partially backtrack.

Lol Wall-E, you're defending me so hard, you and I should be scum-buddies.

we would be invincible.

You, Zachattack and Gamma: the triple love-train threat.

This is indicative of his play-style. He's erratic and rather flippant. I don't like it, but I like killing our vig less.

However, if tonight he does what he hinted at ("I have no qualms about NKing players if they're gonna be a hassle, town or not. Fuck yeah.") then he should and I have little doubt will be lynched.

Nekka - 4th vote for Atlas early on.

Nekka is lurking. I asked him a question yesterday, he's been on Mafiascum today, but didn't come into this thread. This annoys me.

Seconded. He came in for a lot of scrutiny, disappeared and the heat has since turned to Wall-E and corporate (don't get me wrong, they're both good targets).

Corporate - not liking his posts at all. Particularly attacking Atlas for "jump[ing] on every little thing" (#92). That's scum-hunting. Yeah, I suppose it is possible to go too far, but I don't see Atlas as doing that. He's also very careful to be having a bob either way.

im not sure he

(ed: Tony)

is town, my point was just that wall e was jumping on him for trying to help the town. scum dosent want to help the town. hence, my vote.

Huh? Everyone claims to be trying to help the town. But lynching the vig on D1 isn't pro-town, no matter how you try to spin it.

Wall-E -

You don't like me cheering on the claimed vig? Too bad! I liked Gamma's claim, I liked everything about what he did, up to and including the reprimand.

If you're wondering why I don't find Gamma's claim suspicious, it's because his wagon was suspicious. He acted quite appropriately, in my opinion, in the face of a wagon on him for his random vote (wtf people?). His claim is provable, and if he ever crosses my scumdar it will be a snap to get the momentum to lynch him.

Let me address this quickly. Role-claiming should only be tried after arguing has failed. I highly doubt Gamma would have been lynched just for his vote for Atlas. He wasn't in any immediate danger, so it'd be far better to argue his case than role-claim and turn practically this whole thread into a "will he or won't he" situation.

Wall-E is also very quick to engage in OMGUS attacks, and he's gone rather over-the-top in his defence of Gamma, all the while flagrantly disregarding any arguments against him.

WhereIsTony - rather quiet, but comment which stood out for me was his eagerness to lynch Gamma at #83 and #85. However he then says at #100 that he believes there's a good chance Gamma is the vig. Talk about inconsistent?

Oh, and

unvote: jersey

. Rereading the topic, his suspicions of Wall-E seem to be well-founded. He was still too eager to lynch Gamma, but so were plenty of others. He did claim he was "parsing" through the thread almost two days ago, but has yet to post.

I'd like to see Tolmides post more original content, a lot of his posts have consisted mainly of agreeing with what others have said and putting what others have basically said in his own words. Tony, same thing to you.

Partly that's because of when I get on. I tend to log on after everyone is worn out over epic-length arguments and most of what I'd like to say has been said. I will try to be more involved now, however.

For now,

Vote: Nekka-Lucifer

Suspicious posting and silent at an opportune time for him. Plus, he has yet to respond to any accusations.

Second vote (for NK): Corporate.

I'd like Tony to respond to my comments regarding his inconsistencies though.

[WhereIsTony]

simply put, I thought we should lynch gamma when i was worried he was a threat to the town, however his post since then and others argument ion his utility have made me change my mind.

[WhereIsTony]

I also like the killing the towns second choice at first but on further reflection am worried that it leaves us open to blocking if there is a blocker.

Sometimes I change my mind when I think about things and sometimes a logical argument will persuade me.

[JordanA24]

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things.

QFT, please explain using reasoning why you believe Nekka to be scummier, before you seemed almost certain corporate was scum.

won't the dialogue tell us.

I have never played a game on this forum, with a vigilante.

Does it just tell us who is dead and not the role that killed him?

The mod won't tell us what roles killed who, but some mods mention certian kill methods that stay consistent with the same killing group (eg. shot=mafia kill, stabbed=SK kill is fairly ordinary). Some mods just say "such and such was killed", so we wouldn't be able to tell.


K Tolmides, that's fine.

Tony, why did you think we should have lynched Gamma?

[WhereIsTony]

because he stated he would kill town as well as mafia. that would make him a risk. he seems to have chilled on that.

[jerseygoomba]

OK Wall-E, after rereading your posts on there own, I have decided to take you up on a challenge you posted earlier (Post 130):

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

I had unvoted Gamma way back there. I'm going to give you a chance to make your claim.

VOTE: WALL-E

[zachattack]

Once again, I have to say DO NOT lynch wally until we hear from nekka (or his replacement if it comes to that). I have more thoughts, but I don't want to influence nekkas response. I will say that I don't want wall-e to claim, but I'm probably in the minority there.

[Budja]

Indeed,

unvote

. Yes, I still suspect Wall-E, but I don't want a lynch either before Nekka speaks.

[Gamma]

dsfargeg.

Everyone seems satisfied with a wall-e lynch, but...

list of players that nobody, for the most part has given a rat's ass about this game

JordanA24
Tolmides
WhereIsTony
zachattack


It would be nice if everybody thought more about everybody, not just the flavor of the day.

unvote

because i want to hear Nekka.

[Nekka-Lucifer]

Sorry, I've been rather busy and I'll need to read through 5 or so pages to catch up. Lucky me. Just looking at the ignorant posts on page 6 by Wall-e confirms a vote on him is deemed necesery (qe: Hoping for a wall-e lynch today and seeing the results of who Gamma targets). I don't know the current situation but I still suspect Gamma's actions. I don't know his behaviour since page 6 so I am not ready to call an asumption on the topic

[My Milked Eek]

dsfargeg.

Everyone seems satisfied with a wall-e lynch, but...

list of players that nobody, for the most part has given a rat's ass about this game

JordanA24
Tolmides
WhereIsTony
zachattack


It would be nice if everybody thought more about everybody, not just the flavor of the day.

unvote

because i want to hear Nekka.

Day 1 isn't over yet. Stop complaining, everyone will get his amount of information in due time.

And I'll be back on Sunday.

[JordanA24]

dsfargeg.

Everyone seems satisfied with a wall-e lynch, but...

list of players that nobody, for the most part has given a rat's ass about this game

JordanA24
Tolmides
WhereIsTony
zachattack

What's those random letters at the top of your post all about?

Day 1 tends to be flavour of the month orientated. With no really good information to go by, only players who make slip-ups and stuff like that tend to be talked about.

[zachattack]

Nekka posted! Yay! Now let's see him answer some questions. I figure five hours was long enough to read the thread, unless he's intentionally avoiding giving his opinion in the hope wally gets hammered first.

[Wall-E]

Of course Gamma's claim will have merit. If he claims a kill who's flavor was being stabbed, for example, Gamma's an SK. If he doesn't, we might get a counter-claim from the real vig (since everyone seems so sure he's lying.)

And for the last time, no, I will not help you conjecture over setup. You saying my counter-point is conjecture is 100% accurate! I was giving an example of why setup conjecture is STUPID!

I'm done talking to a moron now. Good luck trying to get me to discuss your scummy garbage.

[Budja]

. Wall-E, at least make an effort to not look scummy.

[Wall-E]

Oh, is that how we play this game?

[corporate]

checking in thanksgiving is keeping me busy ill catch up when i can but i have a pretty full schedule this weekend.

[JordanA24]

Wall-E, your behaviour is ridiculous... calm down, stop being sarcy, stop insulting every other player and PLAY THE DAMN GAME! It would help your case a lot.

Should we choose to lynch Wall-E today, who does everyone think we should get Gamma to NK tonight? Personally I'm torn between corporate and jerseygoomba, I suspect jersey for mindlessly putting Wall-E at -1 at the top of this page, following Budja in voting for Gamma for exactly the same reasoning (so bandwagoning on an easy target who can be of a lot of use to the town) and generally not bringing anything new to the thread. He's attempting to stay under the radar by the looks of it, which looks pretty scummy.

[Tolmides]

simply put, I thought we should lynch gamma when i was worried he was a threat to the town, however his post since then and others argument ion his utility have made me change my mind.

Fair enough.

I also like the killing the towns second choice at first but on further reflection am worried that it leaves us open to blocking if there is a blocker.

I think that's something we'll have to deal with as it comes up. I'm not prepared to kill the vigilante on the

chance

that there is a roleblocker.

OK Wall-E, after rereading your posts on there own, I have decided to take you up on a challenge you posted earlier (Post 130):

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

I had unvoted Gamma way back there. I'm going to give you a chance to make your claim.

VOTE: WALL-E

Ugh. I don't like bringing somebody to L-1 so soon, particularly when it is framed like this; vendettas against people aren't going to help us find scum. I'm not convinced that Wall-E is scum, and I certainly think there are better targets. As somebody said earlier on (I forget who), Wall-E's aggressive play makes me think he's more likely to be an angry and erratic townie (I'm placing the first call on him being a paranoid gun owner) than scum.

Nekka...you've had almost 24 hours to respond. What say you?

[Tolmides]

Jordan - I still don't think Wall-E is our top choice today. I'm reserving my vote pending what Nekka has to say. But I think either corporate or jersey are fair targets for a NK. Before we get to night we need to make it 100% clear to Gamma who we want our second target to be. Preferably, we should hold off when we get to L-1 on anyone to determine our second target for NK.

[JordanA24]

Wall-E's aggressive play makes me think he's more likely to be an angry and erratic townie (I'm placing the first call on him being a paranoid gun owner) than scum.

Trying to guess people's roles on Day 1 is a big no-no. If he wants to claim, then he can, but by guessing what role he is, if Wall-E is scum, you're giving him ideas what to claim (which looks scummy on your part, makes you too look like scumbuddies). And if Wall-E isn't scum, it gives the real scum ideas at what Wall-E might be.

FOS: Tolmides

[JordanA24]

EBWOP: I agree when you say we need to decide 100% on Gamma's target before we lynch anyone, this is why I was so suspicious of jersey for putting him at -1, and why I'm witholding my vote on Wall-E (otherwise, I'd have voted him at the end of Post 267).

[WhereIsTony]

I think that's something we'll have to deal with as it comes up. I'm not prepared to kill the vigilante on the

chance

that there is a roleblocker.

I am not suggesting we kill him, only that we may not want to tell him who to target.

[Tolmides]

Wall-E's aggressive play makes me think he's more likely to be an angry and erratic townie (I'm placing the first call on him being a paranoid gun owner) than scum.

Trying to guess people's roles on Day 1 is a big no-no. If he wants to claim, then he can, but by guessing what role he is, if Wall-E is scum, you're giving him ideas what to claim (which looks scummy on your part, makes you too look like scumbuddies). And if Wall-E isn't scum, it gives the real scum ideas at what Wall-E might be.

FOS: Tolmides

I guess I should have make it clearer I was kidding around with that particular comment. I wasn't seriously suggesting he was a paranoid gun owner, because I don't see why somebody with that role would act like he's acting in the day. I was just saying that he was acting like a REAL paranoid gun owner would (i.e. somebody out in the real world, not on mafiascum or in a mafia game) in that he is "shooting" anybody who questions him and is being very confrontational.

I am not suggesting we kill him, only that we may not want to tell him who to target.

If we do that though, if he is a SKer then we are removing our means of control over him, leaving him free to kill whoever he pleases.

If, after N1, we see that there is a roleblocker in the game, then we'll need to deal with this. But until we have some further evidence that a roleblocker exists, I don't want to relinquish any holds we have over Gamma.

[JordanA24]

Wall-E's aggressive play makes me think he's more likely to be an angry and erratic townie (I'm placing the first call on him being a paranoid gun owner) than scum.

Trying to guess people's roles on Day 1 is a big no-no. If he wants to claim, then he can, but by guessing what role he is, if Wall-E is scum, you're giving him ideas what to claim (which looks scummy on your part, makes you too look like scumbuddies). And if Wall-E isn't scum, it gives the real scum ideas at what Wall-E might be.

FOS: Tolmides

I guess I should have make it clearer I was kidding around with that particular comment. I wasn't seriously suggesting he was a paranoid gun owner, because I don't see why somebody with that role would act like he's acting in the day. I was just saying that he was acting like a REAL paranoid gun owner would (i.e. somebody out in the real world, not on mafiascum or in a mafia game) in that he is "shooting" anybody who questions him and is being very confrontational.

Ah alright, sorry for not realising that.