Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[orangepenguin]

@OP:Why did you claim so early? You have 3 votes.. 4 more votes are necessary to lynch. Weird panic you got into. I have seen scum act this way before in one of my games.

I'm not the only doctor, so being doctor isn't that big of a deal in this game, added to the fact that scum tend to keep people like me around. If I claim, and scum still jump on me, and I am lynched, the scum will be easier to catch that way, you know? Plus, I am always speed lynched day 1 for stupid reasons, so yeah, I tend to panic. I'd rather risk my own neck if it keeps me around. The only negative of my claim is that it gives the scum info, so they can use that to their advantage, in whatever way they please.

[TonyMontana]

I decided that the mod mispelled GnKoichi's name as an involuntary reaction to consternation regarding his play style, leading me to believe the town's fighting affected the mod's mindset, thereby influencing his actions while typing GnKoichi's name.

I know, that sounds dumb as all hell.

I believe it enough to ignore how it sounds.

I thought it was a joke the first time you said it.

It's still a joke. ¬¬

[Plum]

@OP:Why did you claim so early? You have 3 votes.. 4 more votes are necessary to lynch. Weird panic you got into. I have seen scum act this way before in one of my games.

I'm not the only doctor, so being doctor isn't that big of a deal in this game, added to the fact that scum tend to keep people like me around. If I claim, and scum still jump on me, and I am lynched, the scum will be easier to catch that way, you know? Plus, I am always speed lynched day 1 for stupid reasons, so yeah, I tend to panic. I'd rather risk my own neck if it keeps me around. The only negative of my claim is that it gives the scum info, so they can use that to their advantage, in whatever way they please.

You who were so unwilling to give analysis because it would 'give the scum information' - you who haven't given much analysis of anything - feel the need to claim Doctor at L-4. That's nice.

Let me clarify: Did you think you were hammering GnK?

Active lurking: You admitted to having a habit of not standing out/speaking up much on Day 1, and followed that habit pretty well. I'm sorry, you did not admit to active lurking. But you

have

played without giving much substance or analysis, which is what I mean by 'active lurking'.

[Nameless]

@ GK, re: #567 - You're missing the point. It's not that nobody defended Charter, is that nobody gave the appearance of even considering the other side, they just mindlessly agree and pile on the votes. And (WIFOM warning) admitting to something and trying to move on seems more townie than using technicalities and semantics to defend yourself. [/Serious] If Charter is an admitted liar, why should they trust him to admit he lied? (Wait, what?) [Serious]

Oh, and your understanding of voting theory is flawed, but I'm not even going there.

Re: GK's reread - Your player by player notes seem inconsistent at times with your final thoughts, and your sudden revelation of error feels contrived. A last ditch effort to throw off suspicion by reminding everyone you're newbie and giving yourself an excuse to start drawing attention to other people?

I disprove of an OP bandwagon formed on the premise that a lurker suddenly starts contributing what would seem to be honest thoughts rather then the usual exaggerations as seen from eg. Charter or GK. What OP's saying is no worse than me admitting I'd rather lynch Wall-E than GK. The sudden votes on him with

only this quoted

as an additional reason are bad play if not outright suspicious given the other still-lurkingers.

However, I DON'T like the way OP pretends to be hammering. If GK is scum, you'd better believe OP should be next in line for the noose. (And before somebody slower on the uptake asks, that would be because OP is attempting to gain the distance from his scumbuddy by being seen willing to hammer, without actually doing so. There is no good reason to pretend to hammer and I do not believe any player in this game is stupid enough to make such a post without checking the votecount first.)

[TonyMontana]

It does seem quite unfathomable that OP could believe his vote would be a hammer, when there was a vc on the top of the page, and no additional votes in the few votes in between.

[charter]

Charter, remember 12 Angry Men Mafia, where I was lurking, and voted for you, and then I was quickly lynched because of it in the span of an hour or less? I was town then, and now the same thing is happening. This is so annoying. I am a doctor. All the basis for the early suspicion on me has no merit anymore, because the moment I try to help, I get lynched because of it. I am probably just digging myself in a bigger whole, but this is what the scum were hoping for. Good job GnK. Or Wall-E.

I don't even think charter is scum anymore. =/ I think he and Plum are town, but I totally expect charter to vote me..if he gets a chance. Just like 12 Angry Men, remember? Ugh.

Yes, I remember, I was about to mention that. However, you acted extremely scummy and the lynch was justified. It's basically the same case here.

Still think it's GK.

[GnKoichi]

That's okay Nameless. While going over my own posts, I knew that not everyone would believe that I'm turning over a new leaf. I can only prove that with my future actions. I didn't think this was going to suddenly get everyone to turn the other way. I just had a realization about how I was playing and I wanted to fix it right away.

Which is why I have my vote on OP. It's not so much about him voting for me, or that he's doing so when he says there are two people he'd rather lynch. It's really about him saying that he knew how to play better, but that he was going to wait until Day 2. Why wait? He may have posted more often in the last few pages, but I don't think he's added much to the conversation; certainly not enough to make me change my mind about him overall.

[Stef]

OP: You claimed to easily. Doesn't matter what you claimed and your explanation doesn't help you at all.

Vote OP

Explain the inconsistency ( a no content policy followed by an almost unprovoked claim ) in your play and the so called impression of a hammer on GnK.

Nameless: Don't see a reason for you to say: "What OP's saying is no worse than me admitting I'd rather lynch Wall-E than GK." I think the wagon formed on OP has it's merits. That's why i'm contributing to it.

Charter: I see you continue to fail at reading posts. Please do what i asked you to do and stop ignoring questions. People say they get a town impression out of you when you avoid answering questions, bring very little content to the game and get a masters degree in fence-sitting. Don't forget you're one of my favorite candidates for today's lynch. That hasn't changed.

[orangepenguin]

With 12 players, I thought 6 to lynch. I was the 6th voter. Then I recall that it's +1 over half. I am actually glad I wasn't the hammer though. I don't think I should have that responsibility.

[Stef]

Why be scared of the responsibility if you have reason on your side and you are town?

[animorpherv1]

Why be scared of the responsibility if you have reason on your side and you are town?

This.

[charter]

Stef, would you let me know what posts you want me to respond to? I'll get right on it.

[Plum]

I will contribute.. to lynching scum. Hopefully, you guys were right all along about GnK.
...
Think what you will for me hammering.

I am actually glad I wasn't the hammer though. I don't think I should have that responsibility.

Now, why are you first ready and willing to hammer, because apparently you think GnK is scummy enough that you want him hammered, and now suddenly don't think you should have that responsibility? Do you want GnK lynched or not? If yes, why not by your vote? Explain thoroughly.

[TonyMontana]

This.

This.

[charter]

I'd wager OP is town.

[Mirth]

"Some good advice for the masses."

VOTE COUNT

GnKoichi - 5 - [Kmd, charter, Kiro, Nameless, orangepenguin]

Orangepenguin - 4 - [Wall-E, GnKoichi, Plum, Stef]

Charter - 1 - [Tony Montana]

Not Voting - 2 - [EdwardElric, animorpherv]

Tentative Deadline Dec 10

I am prodding Edward now.

[Plum]

I'd wager OP is town.

That's nice. Care to tell us

why

?

[orangepenguin]

I will contribute.. to lynching scum. Hopefully, you guys were right all along about GnK.
...
Think what you will for me hammering.

I am actually glad I wasn't the hammer though. I don't think I should have that responsibility.

Now, why are you first ready and willing to hammer, because apparently you think GnK is scummy enough that you want him hammered, and now suddenly don't think you should have that responsibility? Do you want GnK lynched or not? If yes, why not by your vote? Explain thoroughly.

I did think he was scummy, but as you could tell, I was not confident in my vote 100%. I think, if I were to hammer, I should've provided quotes to support my reasonings. So yes, I want him lynched. I just wish I provided a better post to go along with my vote, and I think if someone were to hammer, it would be a good post. I hope that makes sense.

[Nameless]

Nameless: Don't see a reason for you to say: "What OP's saying is no worse than me admitting I'd rather lynch Wall-E than GK." I think the wagon formed on OP has it's merits.

The wagon on OP does have merits, and OP's pretend hammer is scummy, but the reason I brought that point up and what still worries me is that Wall-E, GK and Plum all decide OP is

now

worth their vote and the ONLY thing they mention as a

new

reason against OP is his that he dares to admit he's not 100% sure and that GK is only his 2nd or 3rd choice for a lynch.

This.

This.

This. (Is active lurking.)

[charter]

I'd wager OP is town.

That's nice. Care to tell us

why

?

Because he did literally the exact same thing in 12 angry men. Said something really scummy (post 585 in this game) and was lynched in one page. I face a dilemma in that I don't think this is a scumtell for him, but we can't let him off the hook for it either.
Wall-E and GK's and Plum's immediate votes on him after 585 are very similar to the way he piled on votes in 12 angry men.

[Plum]

The wagon on OP does have merits, and OP's pretend hammer is scummy, but the reason I brought that point up and what still worries me is that Wall-E, GK and Plum all decide OP is

now

worth their vote and the ONLY thing they mention as a

new

reason against OP is his that he dares to admit he's not 100% sure and that GK is only his 2nd or 3rd choice for a lynch.

Not exactly, at least in my case. Firstly, GnK's analysis post had some degree of influence there - I was impressed by it and wanted to reconsider my vote on him. OP had just put him at L-1 with little of his own analysis, and it's not the first time this game he's joined a bandwagon without a case of his own, or a summary of the case against the player and why he personally thought the case was strong enough to warrant a vote. He quoted GnK's 'I think I really need to reconsider my suspicions of Charter' post, which I think implyed that said post was part of the reason OP voted him, but did not mention GnK's analysis post in relation to it. He also appeared to have thought he

hammered

GnK with that barely-backed up vote. That plus the lack of scumhunting substance from him and the analysis I made of him previously (included in that was his stupid, unwarranted buy-in to GnK's Charter/Wall-E scumteam theory) made him, at that point, the one who most deserved my vote.

To sum up - not entirely new reasons for my vote, but enough reasons overall that I think my vote is in a decent place right now. Having said that, apparently OP's had this sort of thing happen with him as town before. I think he's fairly scummy, but I'm keeping my mind open. GnK's not

cleared

by me, just looks less scummy (to me) after his analysis post. Likewise, other players whom I've questioned/attacked/voted. Then again, as Charter said, letting OP off the hook after he does scummy things isn't an appealing option even if this is closer to a nulltell for OP.

[GnKoichi]

V/LA until Saturday, most likely.

[Kiro]

A lot can change in 3 days...

GnK dropping the attack on charter (at least for now) is a good sign that he'll keep his mind more open. While it could all be an elaborate charade, I won't touch that WIFOM until we see an eventual cardflip from them. Even if either of them is scum, I say it's a great thing though because it forces both of them to continue to contribute lest they get votes back onto them again.

For Orangepenguin, the "I am not entirely convinced GnK was scum" along with his vote in the same post is just bad... Quite frankly, if you wanted to policy lynch GnK, don't say that line and be confident in your vote reason. It looked like you were trying to minimize your responsibility while at the same time attempting to hammer, except the wagon was one short. GnK had tunnel vision, but this action here is more nooby/scummy than that.

I also don't like some of your defending statements like in 597 saying "I've done more than Tony." People aren't voting you because of activity in this case, they're voting you for what seems to be a scummy reason of a vote thinking that you hammered someone that you are not entirely convinced of being scum. You have to understand WHY people are voting you and defend against that. Saying anything else looks like you're trying to deflect attention away from yourself.

Unvote: GnKoichi
Vote: orangepenguin

[animorpherv1]

This.

This.

This. (Is active lurking.)

I was showing the fact I was agreeing with him. That's a problem?

[Nameless]

I was showing the fact I was agreeing with him. That's a problem?

You weren't contributing your own thoughts/ideas/etc, so yes!

Hey you know who else isn't contributing their own thoughts/idea/etc. in the last few days? EVERYONE.

So, Plum's vote has been sufficiently explained but given Kiro now also quoting the "not entirely convinced" line I'm beginning to think I'm the only one interpreting that statement benevolently. Charter's wager that OP is town probably isn't quite as objective as he'd like us to believe given Charter is ALSO relying somewhat on a really bad meta to get away with anti-town behavior.