Micro 1072: Turf Wars | Game Over

[patchwork]

actually have to respond now....

grim: i feel like that's just sky tbh. i think if u said randomly "x is town" ppl would assume that ur neighbors with that person, esp bc neighborhoods have the potential to be pseduo-masonries in the game anyways.

oh. okay. yeah that makes sense, my bad for masoin-hunting

Newbies are very different from any other game on the site. Most of the time, you have some blend of new players who are really eager to get into it, and start playing the game, whereas in micros or any other game on site, you more likely have people who at least know others, and kinda wanna slow-play a little bit more. At least, that's my opinion.

alright, thanks for the clarification

That makes sense. We don't necessarily think it has weird vibes, but I could see how someone would think it's weird.

alright. glad i'm making sense

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: mech talk is ok imo. that's a lot of what i did when i played under vv was talk mech. i think at the beginning of the game mech talk to get out of rvs is good, and maybe a little past rvs is ok. i don't see a problem with that.

fair. mainly my issue with it was that furtive just appears out of the blue with a false statement about mechanics, but doesn't really talk about the players so far. but i can see that i was probably in the wrong there for requesting furtive to stop talking about mechanics.

Drel: I think it's a fair statement, because it's the same assumption we had at the start anyways, that mafia flipping means the other is confirmed town, but that's clearly not true. Like someone said earlier, it's more likely to come from town in our opinion, rather than scum going "haha, I can post this to look townie!"

How does this make sense?

blatantly asserting that you've "found scum" in the same way you'd wave a red flag in front of a bull's face as a way to get players to pay attention to you could come from a scum perspective, because in theory scum is supposed to be quiet and avoid that attention to avoid scumreads, so a scum member could do the exact opposite for towncred.
or at least that's how i understood it. i don't really scumread stargazer and the post doesn't ping me that much because it's literally just NAI, and i'm more confident about stargazer town than stargazer scum. also, they have the best vibes

Scum don't necessarily need to remain quiet and out of sight to win. Scum can very easily win by loudly forcing the town into some 1v1s, and derail the thread. If scum remain quiet and not say anything, town are more likely to actually find them out, whereas if scum try to maintain activity and play loudly, and try to confuse the town, they tend to win more. I know town of salem isn't a perfect example for stuff like this, but like, if scum just remain quiet and don't try to do anything, they get killed. Scum wins more games if they actively play the game and try to muddy the waters.

grim (+kori): if ppl consistently fluff-post all game they're likely scum. there r some ppl on site who literally do that as their playstyle. not_mafia comes to mind. it's possible, just more difficult to do so.

oh, okay. i don't think drew is scum though, because they were only Sillyposting in the first few pages and challenged me afterwards about it

Kori: This is townie.

how? i was mostly just responding to their posts regarding the fluffposting thing to explain my thoughts about the Whole Shebang
but now i know i was in the wrong for trying to force discussion, because that's kind of an asshole move and drew absolutely has the right to sillypost in the first ten pages if they want

I think town is more likely to make a paragraph like that, that early in the game compared to scum. It's nothing like, super concrete, but it's something I feel town does more than scum.

[patchwork]

Drel: I think it's a fair statement, because it's the same assumption we had at the start anyways, that mafia flipping means the other is confirmed town, but that's clearly not true. Like someone said earlier, it's more likely to come from town in our opinion, rather than scum going "haha, I can post this to look townie!"

yeah, i agree on that take.

Scum don't necessarily need to remain quiet and out of sight to win. Scum can very easily win by loudly forcing the town into some 1v1s, and derail the thread. If scum remain quiet and not say anything, town are more likely to actually find them out, whereas if scum try to maintain activity and play loudly, and try to confuse the town, they tend to win more. I know town of salem isn't a perfect example for stuff like this, but like, if scum just remain quiet and don't try to do anything, they get killed. Scum wins more games if they actively play the game and try to muddy the waters.

oh okay got it

I think town is more likely to make a paragraph like that, that early in the game compared to scum. It's nothing like, super concrete, but it's something I feel town does more than scum.

okay seems chill

are you guys caught up yet? if so, could we get a readlist? like towny at the top, scummy at the bottom?

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: that's what we're talking about rn lol is where our reads are at.

[Aureal]

How does this make sense?

blatantly asserting that you've "found scum" in the same way you'd wave a red flag in front of a bull's face as a way to get players to pay attention to you could come from a scum perspective, because in theory scum is supposed to be quiet and avoid that attention to avoid scumreads, so a scum member could do the exact opposite for towncred.
or at least that's how i understood it. i don't really scumread stargazer and the post doesn't ping me that much because it's literally just NAI, and i'm more confident about stargazer town than stargazer scum. also, they have the best vibes

Scum isn't really going to act in any particular way. Maybe in the context of one particular person playing a specific way ("meta"), but people who post a lot and grab attention can readily be scum too. You'd think starting out a game by loudly claiming to be a cop with an 87% chance of reflecting night actions would get you an awful lot of suspicion, but I've seen it work.

[patchwork]

How does this make sense?

blatantly asserting that you've "found scum" in the same way you'd wave a red flag in front of a bull's face as a way to get players to pay attention to you could come from a scum perspective, because in theory scum is supposed to be quiet and avoid that attention to avoid scumreads, so a scum member could do the exact opposite for towncred.
or at least that's how i understood it. i don't really scumread stargazer and the post doesn't ping me that much because it's literally just NAI, and i'm more confident about stargazer town than stargazer scum. also, they have the best vibes

Scum isn't really going to act in any particular way. Maybe in the context of one particular person playing a specific way ("meta"), but people who post a lot and grab attention can readily be scum too. You'd think starting out a game by loudly claiming to be a cop with an 87% chance of reflecting night actions would get you an awful lot of suspicion, but I've seen it work.

oh. okay, got it
huh this makes scumtells/towntells really unreliable now because everyone plays different

[patchwork]

grim: that's what we're talking about rn lol is where our reads are at.

ohhh okay

[Oclaxian Empire]

Grim and I have slightly different readslists, but I'm gonna post both, and we're open to talking about the difference in ours.

Spoiler:

Kori:
{Us}
{Patchwork, Lorne, Furtive}
{Sky, KT, Drew} - null
{Aureal}
{}

Grim:
{us}
{patchwork, lorne, drew}
{sky, kt, furtive} - null
{aureal}
{}

Grim thinks that Furtive doesn't deserve a TR based off the mechanical error of thinking flipped scum means the other is confirmed town, whereas I think that's something good, plus Furtive's posts feel like they're doing *something*

I'm just shit at reading Drew, but I think Drew's response to you is +town? I don't really feel like it comes from scum being like "how dare you strip this thing away from me that I was going to use to coast by" or as a reaction of like "shit they found out what I was going to do" type response. I think it's more a townie response/more natural response to that. I just like, don't have enough to be like "I think Drew is town" or "drew is scum". Once we think about the game some more and Drew posts more, Drew 100% moves out of null.

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: sky and kt are null bc kt hasn't posted we don't think, and sky's posts don't rlly stand out, even in an iso. they're good points that sky has made, they just don't really stand out to me.

aureal's posts just like, don't do anything so far from what we've seen. they just kinda. exist. that's about it.

[patchwork]

Grim thinks that Furtive doesn't deserve a TR based off the mechanical error of thinking flipped scum means the other is confirmed town

interesting take

I think Drew's response to you is +town

agree with this entire second paragraph
tbh i think my reads are pretty similar to yours

aureal's posts just like, don't do anything so far from what we've seen. they just kinda. exist. that's about it.

yeah, they've been contributing less than furtive, and i already don't like furtive's play that much. do think furtive is a little higher than the way you played furt in your list though, i like how they've at least been talking

[patchwork]

for me it's like
me (conftown)
yall (strong tr)
lorne (slightly less strong tr, still solid)
drew (townlean)
sky (townlean, around the same as drew, maybe a little more maybe less)
furtive (medium null, slight townlean)
kitty (null, no posts)
aureal (trying to look like contributing but really is not)

[patchwork]

a little doubtful of my read on lorne, but i’d say that’s the place they are at the moment given they’ve posted and contributed and actually Talked to me and stuff. i like the way they read, it feels towny to me or at least feels like it comes from a town perspective

[patchwork]

also grim this is a little unrelated but i LOVE YOUR VIBES. you're /gen so cool i actually vibe with you a ton

[Aureal]

Drel: I think it's a fair statement, because it's the same assumption we had at the start anyways, that mafia flipping means the other is confirmed town, but that's clearly not true. Like someone said earlier, it's more likely to come from town in our opinion, rather than scum going "haha, I can post this to look townie!"

I would really love if you could elaborate on how you decided that it's either town making a reading error or scum trying to look like town by pretending to make a reading error. Why do you apparently think it's impossible that it's scum making a comment that shows he has TMI? Or heck, just scum who made a reading error? If it's actually a reading error, it's not alignment indicative. So I don't even know why scum would pretend to make such a thing.

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: pls reword ur question. i have spent 20 minutes trying to answer it, and i don't have anything meaningful to answer with, so i'm going to ask u to rephrase.

[Oclaxian Empire]

a very key point too: there's a 50% chance scum!furtive just knows thats a lie fyi. there's only 2 scum, and 2 possible combinations the scum can be put in.

[Aureal]

I voted furtive because his post looks like it could be a scumslip. The scum know who their scum partner and neighbor(s) are. They know whether both scum are together in the same neighborhood or not. That implication of the post from furtive was that both scum are in separate neighborhoods. Only scum could know this. I'm asking why you are not taking that possibility into account.

[Oclaxian Empire]

I voted furtive because his post looks like it could be a scumslip. The scum know who their scum partner and neighbor(s) are. They know whether both scum are together in the same neighborhood or not. That implication of the post from furtive was that both scum are in separate neighborhoods. Only scum could know this. I'm asking why you are not taking that possibility into account.

bc normally mods tend to avoid this type of thing where scum are paired with someone from their faction if its all hoods, or if there are a lot of hoods at the start. it's just redundant to have two mafia together in a hood if it's majority hoods, unless the entire game is just "let's make everyone a neighbor" type thing. it's the same exact thought we had when we were catching up at the start of the game - so what? does that mean we're scum w/ furtive for not reading the setup fully when signing up and just going "oh hey look, a game of all hoods, that looks fun" and joining? like sure, there is blatant bias in ignoring the 50/50, but that's also bc speculating abt the 50/50 in that point of time does nothing.

when we get a flip or two, yes, speculating abt the 50/50 is worthwhile, not barely a full irl day into d1.

[Doctor Drew]

I voted furtive because his post looks like it could be a scumslip. The scum know who their scum partner and neighbor(s) are. They know whether both scum are together in the same neighborhood or not. That implication of the post from furtive was that both scum are in separate neighborhoods. Only scum could know this. I'm asking why you are not taking that possibility into account.

+1 scum

[KittyTacky]

Mew hi. I actually never played with most of this list.

[KittyTacky]

this is my first micro, and this is a fun setup, so i'm excited to play with yall
dropping an rvs vote on VOTE: aureal, hi to you too! o/

Why has RVSing survived all these years on MS?

How else do we get the game to start?

[KittyTacky]

I think it's probably best to keep the neighborhood info quiet for now, although I do have an idea for later that would probably involve getting some information.

Now... A MASSCLAIM on the other hand, go go go! I'm VT.

I'm the Jester.

[KittyTacky]

In actuality I think talking about a massclaim in this setup is scummy. It reeks of trying to act like you are helping without actually helping because a massclaim won't help as there are no PRs and mafia will just claim neighbor.

[KittyTacky]

-town for Aureal.

[Aureal]

Uh, the mod doesn't get to choose the hoods, randomness does. So the odds are low that both scum are in the same neighborhood, as that's just one possible combo out of... (statistics don't fail me now!) Uh... A lot. !8 I think is how it's written? Or was it 8!

(statistics have failed me, sigh)