Micro 1070 | a micro normal | Endgame

[Klick]

like I don't get why Klick has a POE of 4 players and decides to vote for me and put me at 3 votes - did he even have a reason to scumread me at that point?

A PoE of 4 means 50% odds of hitting scum
I'm comfortable with sheeping in those odds and I didn't feel towny on you prior to that point.

See this thread. I've been intending to apply this logic in-game.

[Klick]

like he says Gimli is town af - but why does that mean Ari is scum for pushing Gimli?

It doesn't necessarily and I didn't use that as reasoning

I do not like making conclusive pushes on people who might be scum. I find it's fairly rare that I have evidence that suggests someone is scum at the level where I'm comfortable throwing my weight around about it. I find that's much more likely to happen with townreads. And so I tend to get a PoE pool and be somewhat satisfied with any vote within it.

[Aristeia]

andante's wagon that killed her started with klick. it wasn't me, really, I just voted her. klick asked me to do it cause in my solve I put you and andante as my top SRs. if anybody on andante's wagon deserves credit it's klick. I'm willing to die on that hill and if I'm wrong then I got outplayed and that's it.

Klick asked you if you wanted to switch to Andante but he said he was fine voting for Ari as well - this was as a reaction to me voting for Klick. If Klick is town, how does that reaction make sense from his POV without adjusting his read of me?

I would never refuse klick's invitation to vote andante. klick also was the one who emptied your wagon by taking me out of it.

ok I'm going to explain something about how mafia approaches 9p games because it's not simply just about shoving a townie to death - it's about making sure one mafia is alive at the end.

I think Klick was ok with me and you 1v1ing because if Klick is scum, then he doesn't actually care which one of us dies in the 1v1. In his mind maybe I kill you on D1 and then he can mislim me on D2 or you kill me on D1 and then you become easy to mislim on D2.

The issue I have with how he approached our 1v1 is that his key points that he made were that:

1) Gimli is town
2) I have a POE of 4 players and Ari is one of them so I'm fine yeeting her and I'll vote her to put her at E-2

I don't think this is a town mindset because:

(a) He doesn't really have a good way of expressing why his townread of you is that solid - "he is solving" "body of work" "meta" "day and night differences" are all mental shortcuts that I frequently see mafia when they TMI. More importantly they do nothing to convince the other players that your read is correct - he's not really trying to convince me that you are town because none of his reasons would be convincing to a town player who is convinced that gimli is mafia.

(b) He doesn't really consider that I could be town who has a bad read on you - he just assumes I should be reading your correctly and because I am not then I should be mafia - this doesn't actually make sense because town makes bad reads all the time. If anything my pressure on you is causing you to become more readable for him - that's me actively pushing game state foward and is town indicative for me - there's no reason for him to actually think I'm mafia who is pushing a polarized player to towntell and getting into a 1v1.

(c) It doesn't make sense for mafia!ari to decide to loudly push herta!afklurkertown or gimli loudly resisting town because there is very little gain in this - even if I mislim you I end up getting my hands dirty - there are many more easier eliminations for me to get - for example Aureal who got run up to E-1 while I am off-wagon or mykonian or andante or pretty much anyone who got run up. There are many oppurtunities for me to push - not all of them can be my partners etc. Instantly jumping to Scum!Ari pushing town!gimli is a very unnuanced take on what is going on.

(d) a POE of 4 is not very good for a 9p. It requires using all 4 eliminations, every one of your townreads being correct, and like even if you are right in a POE4, you have a 50% chance of missing and eroding any towncred you have and you could easily find yourself mislimmed afterwards. I don't even think it makes sense for me/datisi to be in a POE with Andante as we voted for her to begin with? It's really strange to me for Klick to be ok putting me at 3 when his POE is that wide. I am not even sure he had a reason to scumread me when he voted for me.

[Aristeia]

like the thing with a POE of 4 is - how are you sure your POE of 4 is right? because the town only gets to vote out 4 people so if it's wrong by even one person you lose. Also if you hit one of the townies in the POE of 4, what keeps the town on the POE instead of deciding to throw it out and maybe vote you out instead?

[Gimli]

ari you have your reasons but don't you think alisae is just way more likely to be scum with andante than klick? don't you think all of what happened in this game can be easily explained by klick just being a townie with a POE that simply contained the masons and the wolves? what klick did this with d1 was awesome town play. compare that to alisae who was enabling and softpushing, and with how alisae approaches solving this gameday which is shallow reads both on klick and on aureal. I think alisae is much more likely to be the mafia for these reasons.

[Alisae]

Shallow reads lmfao

[Gimli]

you looked scummy cause you were masons, I can see what klick saw I saw the same things, you had TMI on datisi

[Klick]

YUCXHFSJTFK.GKJF

NO IM NOT TRYING TO READ ANDANTE IM TRYING TO GET THEM TO POST SOMETHING THAT MAKES THEM READABLE HOW IS THAT SAVING

I know if you're town you're confbiased
but I think Gimli's interpretation makes plenty of sense as a potential read of the situation?

[Alisae]

YUCXHFSJTFK.GKJF

NO IM NOT TRYING TO READ ANDANTE IM TRYING TO GET THEM TO POST SOMETHING THAT MAKES THEM READABLE HOW IS THAT SAVING

I know if you're town you're confbiased
but I think Gimli's interpretation makes plenty of sense as a potential read of the situation?

I think it’s reasonable to want to try to get more out of Andante. It can come from any alignment. They’re not providing much to be worked with at the time I wrote that post and it seemed like they were kind of just posting like a chicken with their heads cut off

[Klick]

he was the first person to leave Andante's first three vote wagon though.

The wagon didn't feel like it was actually going anywhere and I wanted more development out of the day. I still thought Andante was scummy but wanted to try something else.

[Alisae]

Andante can you try being transparent?
Why do you like 128
Why do you dislike Klick
What is your read on Myko

Your reaction doesn’t really make any sense and I can’t really parse through it but I don’t think you’re an elim right now so why is it all suddenly doomed? If ur town shouldn’t u be able to show us that?

Like this is a lot of words for “what the fuck are you doing can you calm down and actually provide something that’s helpful”

[Klick]

YUCXHFSJTFK.GKJF

NO IM NOT TRYING TO READ ANDANTE IM TRYING TO GET THEM TO POST SOMETHING THAT MAKES THEM READABLE HOW IS THAT SAVING

I know if you're town you're confbiased
but I think Gimli's interpretation makes plenty of sense as a potential read of the situation?

I think it’s reasonable to want to try to get more out of Andante. It can come from any alignment. They’re not providing much to be worked with at the time I wrote that post and it seemed like they were kind of just posting like a chicken with their heads cut off

Sure
But I don't think Gimli's read is unreasonable to the point where your rage reaction feels like a sensible response

[Alisae]

Cuz I see those votes from dats u and ari and I have no idea why this player is being wagoned or why they’re responding the way they are

[Klick]

I think the best way to describe Aureal’s play is it feels agendaless?
I don’t get the impression they’re informed and playing with a teammate.

I agree with this

[Alisae]

YUCXHFSJTFK.GKJF

NO IM NOT TRYING TO READ ANDANTE IM TRYING TO GET THEM TO POST SOMETHING THAT MAKES THEM READABLE HOW IS THAT SAVING

I know if you're town you're confbiased
but I think Gimli's interpretation makes plenty of sense as a potential read of the situation?

I think it’s reasonable to want to try to get more out of Andante. It can come from any alignment. They’re not providing much to be worked with at the time I wrote that post and it seemed like they were kind of just posting like a chicken with their heads cut off

Sure
But I don't think Gimli's read is unreasonable to the point where your rage reaction feels like a sensible response

I disagree. I don’t see how any sane person doesn’t look at andante there and ask “what the fuck are they doing can they provide something that’s actually helpful”

[Alisae]

Aureal seems town

a read with nothing to work with.

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

They like a post but no why

Votecount

VC 1-II

Aureal (3 = E-2):

Herta, Wavelength, mykonian

Andante (3 = E-2):

Datisi, Klick, Aristeia

mykonian (1):

Alisae

Alisae (1):

Aureal

Wavelength (1):

Andante

With 9 alive, it takes 5 for an execution.

Co-mod notes:

- I'm also counting by hand, let me know if there is anything wrong.
- The combined mod ISO can be found here.

Also, what the heck are these wagons? I like Aureal, and I know I'm town, so get your freaking votes off me and go elsewhere

nothing post

it almost feels like yall were trying to vote me out before I showed back up. get off me

Nothing post

i don't think you're actually trying to read me

Not helpful

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yet

bruhh it's not "I'd vote there but that makes it e-1" please explain why you're currently voting me then if you have no interest in my wagon

this doesn’t do much of anything for me

I don't like 128.

yikes. it's ok though, we don't have to agree!! I'm not saying 128 is the sole reason to locktown aureal, I just thought it was good idk

they just like the post

why would I go back and read people voting me? fuck that. not worth my time. Thus I expect truthful information when I'm here in the moment, not to be lied to then "lol checking to see if you were reading the thread" like why would I? if I really want to dig into me being voted it's just going to annoy me, and the "haha andante e-1" from whoever?? yeah no thanks. vote me out before I care, then it can be "haha andante was town"

VOTE: Klick

What the fuck is going on??????.

[Aristeia]

But I don't think Gimli's read is unreasonable to the point where your rage reaction feels like a sensible response

is this scum!indicative for Alisae?

[Aristeia]

like I understand you think alisae's behavior is unwarranted but is it more likely from town or mafia alignment?

[Klick]

what trap play

here are the appropriate posts:

Spoiler: klick trapping andante

Aureal seems town

Why's that?

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yet

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yet

bruhh it's not "I'd vote there but that makes it e-1" please explain why you're currently voting me then if you have no interest in my wagon

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yet

bruhh it's not "I'd vote there but that makes it e-1" please explain why you're currently voting me then if you have no interest in my wagon

I actually hard townread Aureal and have talked about it in the thread
I just wanted to see what you'd say if I hard countered my thread narrative to see if you really hadn't read the thread. I think the answer is probably yes?

this is after klick is already hard SRing andante and wagoning her. VERY early on d1. this is very early d1.

this is the issue I have because I reread the first 6 pages of the game and your version of events is just not accurate at all and I need you to actually reread it and tell me what you see again.

Datisi starts the Andante wagon at 84 - 1027am
Klick hops on as 2nd vote 96 - 1038 am - "I believe you Datisi"
I sheep Datisi, 3rd vote at 110 - 1104am

the interactions where you say Klick hardburies Andante happen ~5 hours later at 4pm - they occur after Klick votes for Andante and after she becomes a viable wagon. it's not him trapping her that leads him to vote her - he is already voting for her atp.

I don't see where the Klick/Andante interactions on page 6 can't be scum/scum theatre that they decided to do when they could both be online at the same time? If anything it feels a bit unbelievable to be unscripted on a re-read because it doesn't even feel natural?

even in 166 he is not really saying this trap worked or its ai for andante,

by 169 he has reacted to Alisae putting Aureal at E-1 by voting for Alisae - and this is an interesting reaction for several reasons.

What it signals overtly is that he's scumreading Alisae for putting Aureal[his top townread atp] at e-1.

but does this scumread actually make sense in the context of him pushing Andante as the CW? I would say not really? If anything he's making it more likely Aureal is the wagon that goes through since he's lowering the competing wagon from 3 -> 2 by hopping off and voting Alisae at this point.

Also how does it make sense for Alisae!scum to vote Aureal who is Klick's top townread if Andante is town? Like would it not be simpler for Alisae to vote for Andante if Andante is town?

Like why can't Alisae be just sorting or humoring Mykonian?

Originally I thought this was a townie reaction because it felt like Klick was trying to save Aureal!town but knowing that Andante is mafia it feels like a convenient way to deflate the andante wagon and jump off of it.

What you have to understand is that at that point in the game I wasn't legitimately in the mindset of 'the day might end soon' at all
None of the wagons felt like they had the weight of an actual elimination on them even though the numbers themselves were high

[Alisae]

Like the idea I’m trying to save them when I post “what the fuck are you doing can u be more transparent and post actually helpful stuff” comes across as unreasonable because literally who wouldn’t act like that when they see those posts.

[Klick]

like the thing with a POE of 4 is - how are you sure your POE of 4 is right? because the town only gets to vote out 4 people so if it's wrong by even one person you lose. Also if you hit one of the townies in the POE of 4, what keeps the town on the POE instead of deciding to throw it out and maybe vote you out instead?

Because the people outside the PoE were towny af Ari

[Klick]

Shallow reads lmfao

I hard agree with what Gimli is saying atm
In contrast I think his worldview has a lot of depth to it and he believes what he's saying

[Klick]

YUCXHFSJTFK.GKJF

NO IM NOT TRYING TO READ ANDANTE IM TRYING TO GET THEM TO POST SOMETHING THAT MAKES THEM READABLE HOW IS THAT SAVING

I know if you're town you're confbiased
but I think Gimli's interpretation makes plenty of sense as a potential read of the situation?

I think it’s reasonable to want to try to get more out of Andante. It can come from any alignment. They’re not providing much to be worked with at the time I wrote that post and it seemed like they were kind of just posting like a chicken with their heads cut off

Sure
But I don't think Gimli's read is unreasonable to the point where your rage reaction feels like a sensible response

I disagree. I don’t see how any sane person doesn’t look at andante there and ask “what the fuck are they doing can they provide something that’s actually helpful”

I thought she was scummy!

[Klick]

Anyway lunch break over
I think it's Alisae but gonna read over Aureal later

[Gimli]

the coziest pocket I've even been inside of