Mini Normal 2291: Greentexts | Mafia Wins!

[Frogsterking]

Clone, are you still online?

[Frogsterking]

124 is a lot..

[Frogsterking]

@

bianco

@

geraintm

@

Elements

Can I get your professional assessment on Clone?

#slimshady

[Clone]

yip will be on and off for maybe 4 hours

[biancospino]

Alright, I will need to look at this quotewall. Stuff in blue is my commentary.

Alright, currently reading through the thread. ill write up my responses to the stuff targeted at me. I'll also try to give an analysis on a few things. I won't spend too long discussing stuff that has phased out

It would help me a bit to see a response to Clone from BBT.

"no no no no, its one of my many clones that could be scum you are looking for. Mr 23563"
Nah, I think it's this one.

The Mr 23563 was a dig at how many posts he has as (conspiracy) veteran players always get power roles, often evil.

I feel like BBT was trying to act normal and was making a very natural vote against me. Clearly, it was because of my "I just came to say, hello" post. And yes that was my reply to BBT. Dismissive yes, because I felt like his vote didnt have any value to it, so didn't warrant a valid response.

and I'd like to hear how you differentiated BBT from trying to look normal from being so.

#30 Clone's first posts feel worse. First one feels a little unnatural, but the second one gives me some ping. It's a dismissive, useless post 7 minutes after he gets voted. I feel like that post only exists because someone voted him, and he felt he had to respond with something, but had nothing of substance to respond with.

#76This feels very fake. The entire argument is "posting a deflecting joke immediately after being voted for, then peacing out of the game for a long time, is scum AI. I wish to see more posts from him." This is pretty cut and dry.

You seem to be going out of your way to drastically conflate what I'm actually saying with all this nonsense talk about "layers". It feels like a very hard deflection relative to a minimal amount of pressure being put on him.

You're right I had nothing to respond with as it was the first page and there was nothing of value to respond to. I also took his vote as a natural way of getting the game started and didn't think much of it. Accusing someone of being scum at the start of the game for saying "hello" is a shit-take on things.

this is... excessive concern for a D1 vote frankly. I don't think one such vote should be conflated with a sr. It's true that BBT stated they do sr clone, but much later. As we're here, @BBT, was you already sring clone when you first voted him?

7 minutes, don't really see how that's relevant? This game has no external notifications, so I was obviously online at the time. As if I'm gonna be lurking around here for hours on end. At the time of your post that accuses me of peacing out for a long time. A long time was 12 hours at the time of your post. 8 hours sleep, 2 hours of relaxation and another 2 hours at-least to do things during the day, which is a Saturday for me. My post that was 7 minutes after getting voted was around 11pm on a quiet, rainy Friday night, hence why I was more likely to be online. If your post was made right now, it would be more relevant.

well that's false, the site has external notifications with mails. But frankly they work for someone but don't work for me looking at the Bug thread, so I'll let this slide. The timing otherwise makes sense

Crescent seems like scum that is trying to take advantage of a vote that had a shitty scum-like post to it, as they don't believe i'll have anything valid to say.

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as Mafia. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually Mafia (as they are Mafia)

Clone's two posts give vibes like he's trying too hard, by forcing himself to post when he feels he has to post *something*, because he doesn't know what to say.

Scum often find it hard to transition into a game, and I find early game awkwardness to have a fair amount of scum AI. (I'm interested to see what Ceph and especially Gera's second posts look like, for example).

Yip, did not know what to say lol. But I'm not gonna say nothing when I've been voted.

yeah, this doesn't really stand. Again, it's displaying excessive concern with that one vote, which shouldn]'t really force to do anything.

]

People seem like they act the same way on day 1 whether or not they are scum. Vanilla roles and inexperience players have just as much early game awkwardness

no. D1 lims are not random, and suggesting this is +scum

Anyway, a few shit-takes.

I believe redFF is most likely town. He's staying down-low but tends to be actively curious and is asking

BlueBloodedToffee - "Don't particularly like Ceph's defence of Clone." only relevant thing that he has said, since his vote on me. I believe the vote was just a natural vote to get things rolling. What I don't like is him going silence while a discussion about me being scum was in progress and only made 1 shit-take post whilst that was going on. I don't believe BBT has any coordination with anyone, but wouldn't be surprised if Crescent was making the push because of how his team mate voted.

Crescent I would bet on being team mates with BBT. I'd like to him to give his analyze on him as they are one of the few that has been skipped by Crescent.

Cephiri we are team mates, jks. Idk if he is Ma...town than we are team mates.

biancospino, making consistent replies and asking valid questions. Doesn't particular seem like hes siding with anyone. I'd tend to believe that he is a villager. Their questions seem that they are actually trying to get information out of people and aren't just asking them to push.

yeah, suggesting that Crescent is on clone because she felt the need to keep pushing where her partner first voted on page1 is frankly absurd. Again, this give that vote excessive value.

Better content later, now I'm on a bus

[Clone]

yeah, this doesn't really stand. Again, it's displaying excessive concern with that one vote, which shouldn]'t really force to do anything.]

making a dumb joke is showing excessive concern? aight bud

yeah, suggesting that Crescent is on clone because she felt the need to keep pushing where her partner first voted on page1 is frankly absurd. Again, this give that vote excessive value

I did also state that Crescent has given stern analysis on a lot of people, with BBT being one of the few that they haven't. And that was where the coloration of them being partners came from

I will further respond to your points, once others reply.

[Frogsterking]

Clone, can you self-meta yourself a little bit please?

[Frogsterking]

I have a couple more questions, I think that's a good place to start though.

[Clone]

self-meta?

[Frogsterking]

self-meta?

Yeah, like your past experience playing mafia, a rough description of how your play changes between alignments and what kinds of things you look for when deciding whether or not to trust another player.

I will ask you a couple more specific questions about your reads in this game too, I just feel like I need to better understand what you're about first.

[Clone]

Yeah, like your past experience playing mafia, a rough description of how your play changes between alignments and what kinds of things you look for when deciding whether or not to trust another player.

I will ask you a couple more specific questions about your reads in this game too, I just feel like I need to better understand what you're about first.

I was a regular player of SC2Mafia when I was a young kid. This was during its prime of 2012-2013. I did play a few games of forum mafia through SC2Mafia. These were often open set-ups with complex roles and mechanics and didn't tend to have basic roles like citizens, pretty much everyone had an action to perform. I also played EpicMafia during this time, which I believe was more like a face-paced version of mafiascum, as it had citizens and did actually rely on complex scum-reading. Both of these games sort of died of around 2014; And I didn't play any other Mafia game until like 2019. I was very social during my intermediate and high school years, I had a brief faze of playing CoD and Battlefield when I was like 12-14, but was mostly anti-technology and preferred to go out and cause mayhem (jks). I got back into gaming a couple years ago when I was 17. This is around the time I discovered Town of Salem. I still activity play that, but I believe the game to be a joke. It's a copy cat of SC2Mafia; which I use to love, so I find it hard to respect Town of Salem. I mostly just go on there to troll. I have also recently gotten back into SC2Mafia but its only active for about 6 hours of the day and wait times are often like 20 minutes.

its a lot easier in these fast past games, because I usually know who all evils are by day 2 or 3, even if I have to get stressed out trying to explain it to others. If I'm evil I usually try to go for bold plays and if I'm townie i'll usually stay quite passive, unless I'm some sort of killing role. But I guess its gonna be a lot different through forum Mafia

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeha Bianco, I was scum reading Clone for his entrance and that scum read has not only been maintained, but strengthened.

Is anyone else convinced that Clone is scum yet?

[Frogsterking]

@135

That's super cool, SC2 Mafia is what introduced me to mafia back in high school. I liked it, found EM online and over time probably clocked around ~5,000 hours playing on that website. So your style here actually makes total sense to me now that you told me that. Unless there's anything you want to add here for this game about your self-meta then I'd rather continue this discussion postgame if you don't mind, I have some other questions about your reads in this game.

#1

I understand that players focus on different things, I'm curious though why you didn't post any thoughts on Kowahbunga, geraintm and Elements. I think Elements and Kowahbunga have been pretty active and while geraintm has only made two posts, IMO they are both interesting posts to consider. Did you leave those three players out of your analysis in 124 for a reason? If not, can you post an assessment on those three?

#2

Can you backtrace (like show me the previous points in time) where you

weren't

Town reading redFF? I think the easiest way to show this is to point out specific posts in reverse chronological order which caused your read on redFF to change.

[biancospino]

You're right I had nothing to respond with as it was the first page and there was nothing of value to respond to. I also took his vote as a natural way of getting the game started and didn't think much of it. Accusing someone of being scum at the start of the game for saying "hello" is a shit-take on things.
...

Yip, did not know what to say lol. But I'm not gonna say nothing when I've been voted.

@clone, don't misrep me please. I said you attributed excessive value on that vote in your successive commentary, not that your little joke in itself was excessive. If you just go and admit you felt obligated to say something, that's not a good look

[geraintm]

@

bianco

@

geraintm

@

Elements

Can I get your professional assessment on Clone?

#slimshady

It is day 1, I've mot read any of their posts and I am 100% certain they are scum. I once found scum on day 1 and this is proof that I cam successfully divine someone's scum status now

[Crescent]

I recall BBT looking like this day 1 in the last game I played with him. He was town in that game, but I've never seen him play as scum. There isn't much to say.

The disparity I find interesting is in #120 and in #124. In #120, Frog asks me for my opinion on Red and Kow, who are people I hadn't said much about. in #124, Clone immediately uses the fact that I haven't felt a reason to talk about BBT as an excuse for a scumread. The difference is FK feels like he's trying to build a better picture of the game, which is town-slanted thinking. Clone feels like he's trying to throw dirt at anyone who's displayed a scumlean towards him, which isn't.

I do find it... Interesting that he effectively confirmed the reason for my early scumlean on him was accurate (lurking and immediately posting a joke response to a vote, before disappearing for most of a day), while at the same time shading me for having it.

@

bianco

@

geraintm

@

Elements

Can I get your professional assessment on Clone?

#slimshady

It is day 1, I've mot read any of their posts and I am 100% certain they are scum. I once found scum on day 1 and this is proof that I cam successfully divine someone's scum status now

Do you have anything tangible to share on anyone?

[Crescent]

Oh and for anyone who doesn't know me with Day 1 being potentially 10 days long it's unlikely I will place a vote before a week has passed and it's also unlikely I'll vote any more than twice

I'm off to Synagogue

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Crescent, why aren't you voting Clone?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LOL.

TIming.

[geraintm]

I recall BBT looking like this day 1 in the last game I played with him. He was town in that game, but I've never seen him play as scum. There isn't much to say.

The disparity I find interesting is in #120 and in #124. In #120, Frog asks me for my opinion on Red and Kow, who are people I hadn't said much about. in #124, Clone immediately uses the fact that I haven't felt a reason to talk about BBT as an excuse for a scumread. The difference is FK feels like he's trying to build a better picture of the game, which is town-slanted thinking. Clone feels like he's trying to throw dirt at anyone who's displayed a scumlean towards him, which isn't.

I do find it... Interesting that he effectively confirmed the reason for my early scumlean on him was accurate (lurking and immediately posting a joke response to a vote, before disappearing for most of a day), while at the same time shading me for having it.

@

bianco

@

geraintm

@

Elements

Can I get your professional assessment on Clone?

#slimshady

It is day 1, I've mot read any of their posts and I am 100% certain they are scum. I once found scum on day 1 and this is proof that I cam successfully divine someone's scum status now

Do you have anything tangible to share on anyone?

I just gave a 100% accurate read. Is that not enough for you?

[Cephrir]

Yeha Bianco, I was scum reading Clone for his entrance and that scum read has not only been maintained, but strengthened.

Is anyone else convinced that Clone is scum yet?

No... Do you want to share why I should be?

[redFF]

VOTE: clonsle

[redFF]

VOTE: clone

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: clone

@

redFF

i dont have any scum reads at this time, i'll let y'all know if this changes

You promised us

What rubbed you the wrong way wrt Clone?

@

BBT

Last time we were both Town I recall you scum reading me by now. Should I be getting concerned that you aren't getting concerned??

@

Kowahbunga

I meant to ask you a question earlier though I probably forgot. I was wondering if you think it's fair for me to draw analogies between your Andante read in the Mini Normal you just completed and your Cephrir read in this one?

I recall BBT looking like this day 1 in the last game I played with him. He was town in that game, but I've never seen him play as scum. There isn't much to say.

I played scum with him a few months ago in a Mini Normal and he did really well. Someone got onto him D1 and he survived to D2 while helping to set us up for endgame. I never understood what it was that the Town sleuth scum read BBT for on D1. I may be too biased and it's easier for you to see:

viewtopic.php?t=89984&user_select%5B%5D=23899

I guess I'm leaning Town on BBT right now. I don't have a lot to say yet either. I guess you and BBT are the top two advocates and/or earliest two advocates for Clone!scum, so if that goes through and flips scum then I +Town you both. I need a response (or definitive lack of response) to 137 before I decide whether or not to resign my vote to the Clone wagon.

[Cephrir]

I'm not loving 129.

Too much certainty for my tastes. Could be play style tho.