Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[zachattack]

Did someone jump on your head goomba? My performance was flawless.

Vote: Budja

Why put the third vote on someone this early? Doesn't seem random to me. Hoping for a quick bandwagon?

[zachattack]

His vote was the first one that didn't seem random to me, I think he should explain it so we can get some real discussion instead of 'I vote for you because you posted first'

[zachattack]

I think putting a random vote on someone without reading the thread first is very irresponsible town play. I intended to random vote someone, but when I saw three votes on Atlas, I decided to challenge Budja on it to get some actual discussion going. I find it suspicious that Gamma placed a fourth vote after Budja was called on the third one. Either he ignored the thread, which is irresponsible as I said earlier, or his vote wasn't random, and he wanted to push the lynch on Atlas, making him more suspicious in my eyes then Budja, who I'm not really concerned about at this time.

Unvote
Vote: Gamma

Jersey is suspicious as well, I don't think Wall-E placing a second random vote on Atlas is suspicious at all, I doubt he knew Budja and Gamma would follow him. Like Atlas said that's willful misrepresentation on jersey's part.

Corporate voted Budja after his explanation that he didn't read the thread, yet when Nekka confirmed his vote for Gamma challenged it, when Gamma either did the same thing as Budja or imade a scummy play. After being challenged he pulled his vote from Budja, even though Budja was in no danger of being lynched, so he's suspicious to me as well.

I'd like to see Wall-E post something of substance, and for Eek to just post something.

[zachattack]

I don't believe that Gamma didn't read the thread before placing his vote. It's possible but unlikely. I also don't believe the vote was random, someone doesn't get more than half the votes needed to lynch randomly. Therefore I feel his vote was a scummy move. His only response to the criticism against him was devoid of content and putting pressure on him to respond without sarcasm is a good thing. I don't believe he expected Atlas to be lynched quickly, but maybe he was hoping Atlas would panic and claim a power role, or come across scummy in his defense and make the bandwagon viable.

If I was trying for the easy move I would have voted jersey, more people seem suspicious of him then gamma. I think that gamma is most likely to be scum at this early point, and feel he needs some pressure put on him.

[zachattack]

Are you trying to scare people away from voting you Gamma? If you're really town-aligned vig and your going to act like this then your as good as scum.

You claim your vote on Atlas was random, but putting the fourth vote on someone does not seem random to me. Getting sarcastic, angry and being defensive without actually defending anything makes me think you are scum. You've only got two votes against you and your claiming vig? And despite being on our side, you have no qualms about killing townies? I don't buy it.

[zachattack]

In response to Eek

I wasn't insinuating that you would be inactive or anything with my post asking you to post something. I was trying to say that I wanted to hear contributions from everyone so I could formulate opinions on everyone. It was more of a criticism of Wall-E then you since he had posted but hadn't added to the discussion at all. I apologize for my tone though, I can see how it could be misconstrued. I'm sure there will be times where I'm unavailable for 24 hours or more, real life comes before the game.

As for my vote on Budja I didn't think his vote was suspicious, but I didn't think it was random either. I don't like the random vote stage so by woting him I was trying to get the real discussion started. Once I saw someone do something I actually found suspicious I changed my vote. I didn't find Gamma suspicious because he was the fourth vote, I found him suspicious because of his defensive reaction in post's 31 and 36, and nothing he's posted since then has alleviated my suspicion.

Nekka has leapfrogged the rest of you into #2 on my scummy list. Asking Gamma what his PM says about his role then saying he expects him to be modkilled is very disingenuous, and makes me think that Nekka didn't receive a pro-town pm since like Atlas said, it looks nothing like a quote. I'm almost considering changing my vote, and the reason I haven't is because I feel Gamma's a danger to the town even if he's honest and is the vig.

[zachattack]

Baby, I'll put my vote on you anytime you want. Nekka's got nothing on you big boy.

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (1)corporate
corporate - (1) WhereIsTony
Gamma - (1) zachattack
jerseygoomba - (2) Tolmides, Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
Nekka-Lucifer - (2) Wall-E, Gamma
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (1) Nekka-Lucifer
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (1) JordanA24

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[zachattack]

Sorry Nekka, your right mafia is serious business, I will never post anything resembling humor, a joke or anything that could be considered fun again. I hope I can right the horrible atrocity I've committed against the game.

[zachattack]

Without going into much detail, my role pm says nothing about windwoods winning, it only mentions that in order to win we need to remove brass players from the orchestra. I find it odd that the win condition would vary for different people of the same alignment.

This is what I was getting at when I said it doesn't look like Nekka got a pro-town pm. My win condition is the same and it looked to me like Gamma changed it from brass is eliminated to woodwinds win in order to avoid getting modkilled. Nekka thinking this looked like a quote was very suspicious to me, and knowing someone else has the same condition as me makes it a fair assumption that all pro-town players have the same win condition, and Nekka didn't know what that condition was.

unvote
Vote: Nekka-Lucifer

I like the kill the towns second target suggestion for Gamma's night kill, I'm not convinced he's the vig by any means, but I'm fairly confident Nekka is scum.

[zachattack]

Gamma being the serial killer makes sense. Nowhere was it indicated to me that only woodwinds were town, just that brass were mafia. What about percussion or strings? Gamma could be individual, gotten a pm that said brass were mafia but he's not siding with the woodwinds either, recognized that woodwinds were town so claimed his condition as he wins with the woodwinds instead of when the brass were eliminated. The piccolo seems like an obscure instrument for a 12 person band as well.

Nekka don't quote anything, but maybe you should reread your role pm and check your win condition, it's still possible that the mod made slight variations to the win condition of the pro-towns as he wrote them.

Quote:
Wall-E ... had posted but hadn't added to the discussion at all


Fuck you! I get maaaaybe 2 hours of internet every other day, and so far I've dedicated nearly 50% of it to this damn thread! If you don't think I'm contributing you aren't reading my posts or have a bad definition of contribution.

You have contributed for sure, at the time I made the post in question though all you had posted was a random vote and stuff about jerseys name and avatar. Since then you've been active and added to the discussion, this comment was based on your first 3 or 4 posts.

While I'm pissing people off questioning their activity, on page 2 a lot of suspicion was being placed on jersey, up until Gammas vig claim. Since Gamma's claimed vig, he's only posted twice.

Sorry all, been a busy day or two. I have to say I was surprised by the vig claim, and to be honest pretty perplexed why gamma would choose to threaten townies even in jest. Do we really want him making life-or-death decisions if he goes on another bender????

A few beers and one of us could find ourself watch the performance from the wrong side of the pit. Not something I am comfortable with in the least. And self-voting? Is there anything scarier than a drunken vig with suicidal tendencies???

I'm thinking out loud. I wanted to see if anyone else shares my concerns or thinks I'm overreacting (again). Not to mention, I want to give Gamma a chance to respond before I decide to vote for him. After all, isn't more discussion better than less, especially on Day 1? I want to make sure I am making a theoretically educated vote at this point.

At this point, we had spent about 2 solid pages discussing our feelings on Gamma's claim. It seems like he's trying to blend in with the town and slip under the radar while we all go nuts on the Gamma situation.

Lol Wall-E, you're defending me so hard, you and I should be scum-buddies.

we would be invincible.

You, Zachattack and Gamma: the triple love-train threat.

Actually, we are the robot mafia.

The ENTIRE robot mafia.

[zachattack]

Eek, does your role PM say anything about woodwinds? You've stated your win condition is to get rid of the brass instruments, but does your PM indicate that the town is specifically woodwind, or just that the brass are mafia?

I'll reiterate that Jersey really seems to be trying to slip under the radar. He was the center of a lot of suspicion on page 2, until this became the Gamma show. He hasn't really posted anything significant, and his last post was very wishy washy.

What risk Budja? Yours is the only vote on Gamma right now. I'm suspicious of people who are too cautious with their vote, they seem afraid that they're going to get caught voting town and seem suspicious because of it.

Just in case it got lost in the wall of text earlier, I'll say again that I want to know if Nekka's win condition is he wins with the woodwinds, or if he wins when the brass are gone.

[zachattack]

Why me, jersey and budja but not Nekka? Nekka's been as critical of Gamma as I have, and when he changed his vote to Wall-E seemed to indicate it would go back to Gamma after he got some information out of Wall-E. What makes him less suspicious then the three of us?

If we believe it's more likely that Gamma is SK then Vig, why not kill him now. Based on what I've seen so far it seems likely. You aren't the first person to suggest he kill our number 2 each night, Wall-E did on page 4 and it's been brought up a few times since then. Gamma's posted several times since and never even acknowledged the idea. If he is pro-town vig, and decides to kill whoever he feels like, he's still a hindrance to the town. His vote on Eek, who is near the bottom of the list of people who've acted scummy so far, suggests he'll attack people who are critical of him, rather than people who are scummy.

Say he does go along with the kill the #2 suspect suggestion. It will prove nothing as far as him being SK or vig. If he is SK he can listen to us, kill who we tell him to, draw protection, and last to the end because we'll assume since he's killing who we tell him to he's on our side. SK's want to see the mafia die too. I agree that unless no better lead comes up we should wait until day two to decide what to do with him, but I don't think it would be reckless to get rid of him today if we don't have a better lead.

[zachattack]

I'm voting for Nekka...

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (1) corporate
corporate - (1) Wall-E
Gamma - (2) Budja, jerseygoomba
jerseygoomba - (2) Tolmides, Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0) Gamma
Nekka-Lucifer - (1) zachattack
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (1) Nekka-Lucifer
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (1) JordanA24

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[zachattack]

Wow, I missed a busy day. It's taking forever for me to read this thread because I keep getting a server exceeded it's quota error from the site. I'll have a longer post up tonight at some point around 11 est. I asked Nekka a question way back on page 5 about his win condition after he claimed clarinet, he hasn't posted in this thread since then, but he has posted in General Discussion. I want to hear from him.

[zachattack]

That was a lot to take in, but I'm caught up.

Nekka is lurking. I asked him a question yesterday, he's been on Mafiascum today, but didn't come into this thread. This annoys me.

I still think Gamma's the SK and not the Vig, but if he targets who we tell him to it doesn't really matter. I would rather kill a mafioso today and I doubt Gamma is mafia.

Wall-e has been very brash and angry in this thread, which actually makes me think he's town. Scum wouldn't be trying to bring as much attention to themselves as Wall-e is.

Corporates arguments in this thread have been weak and often contradictory. There's a lot of OMGUS from him, and I expect that after this post he will accuse me of being a part of the Atlas Wall-E mob. Throughout the thread explosion we had today I feel he was the scummiest of everyone. He's pretty gung-ho on getting rid of Wall-E, who with the way he reacted to Gamma's claim is a pretty easy target, assuming he comes up town, it's a very easy lynch for the scummies to justify. His suspicions of Atlas seem pretty OMGUS to me. You would have my vote if not for Nekka's lurkiness.

zachattack wrote:
While I'm pissing people off questioning their activity, on page 2 a lot of suspicion was being placed on jersey, up until Gammas vig claim. Since Gamma's claimed vig, he's only posted twice.


QFT, jersey needs to speak up more.

So do you, post 136 was a good start, but you haven't been around too much.

[zachattack]

Can we not lynch Wall-E just yet? He's at L-2, we haven't really discussed who Gamma should kill tonight, I think corporate is more suspicious then Wall-E, and think if those are our top two suspects corporate should be lynched and Wall-E nightkilled. I'm not changing my vote until Nekka gets here, I really want to see him answer my question, and I suggest if everyone is so insistent on getting rid of Wall-E at least wait for Nekka to get here.

[zachattack]

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

[zachattack]

We haven't decided anything yet, feel free to give your opinion on who you think you should use it on. I don't think that anyone is saying your mafia, a lot of people myself included think your an SK, but the SK wants the mafia gone as well so your thoughts are worth hearing.

[zachattack]

Brought to your attention by who?

[zachattack]

Can't you ever answer a question? It's almost as if your acting scummy on purpose.

[zachattack]

Wall-E not Budja,

[zachattack]

Can we prod nekka? It's been 72 hours.

[zachattack]

Once again, I have to say DO NOT lynch wally until we hear from nekka (or his replacement if it comes to that). I have more thoughts, but I don't want to influence nekkas response. I will say that I don't want wall-e to claim, but I'm probably in the minority there.

[zachattack]

Nekka posted! Yay! Now let's see him answer some questions. I figure five hours was long enough to read the thread, unless he's intentionally avoiding giving his opinion in the hope wally gets hammered first.

[zachattack]

I really don't like Nekka's play here. He claims clarinet player, and I questioned him on his win condition shortly after. Instead of answering he disappears for 4 days, gets prodded, posts a short comment with no content, ignores any questions asked of him, then disappears again. The thing is I actually believed his claim, and was only going to leave my vote on him until he answered my question, then change it to corporate or maybe jersey. However, the fact that I asked him a question

6 days ago

, and still haven't gotten an answer has made me suspicious of him again.

I think instead of telling Gamma exactly who to kill, we should give him 2 or 3 choices, and allow him to make the final decision at night. Then when night is over, he tells us who he targeted. Good idea? Bad idea?

[zachattack]

Sigh...

I'm getting tired of this Nekka situation, this is annoying, but no one counterclaimed when he claimed clarinet player, and no one joined my bandwagon until after he got prodded, came here posted nothing then left for another 72 hours. As much as I'd like to lynch him on principle for his lurking, he could legitimately be busy this week and I think his claim is good. I'm probably going to unvote him in my next post, and vote for one of corporate, budja, or jersey, but first I'm going to reread the thread and decide which one is most likely to be scum. If nekka (or his replacement) comes in and posts nothing again, I will change my vote back to him and push for his lynch, but at the moment, he's clearly not paying attention to the game so keeping my vote on him for pressure is pointless, and there are better targets to lynch. I'll be back with a vote change in a couple of hours.

[zachattack]

Sorry I haven't been around lately, real post coming real soon. Looking forward to hearing from Fermata.

@ Corporate: Atlas has disappeared in another game I'm in as well, so I'm taking it as a lack of internet access or desire to check the board rather than him lurking and staying under the radar, unless of course he's scum in both games.

My top three targets for the lynch and NK are Corporate Budja and Jersey, but I want to collect my thoughts first and decide who's scummiest of the three. I'm also not opposed to lynching Wall-E anymore because he's nothing but a distraction, he's actively working against the town, and it's almost as if he wants us to lynch him, but I don't think he's mafia.

More coming...

[zachattack]

unvote

I'll wait for RF's to finish his breakdown before I throw out my new vote. Barring someone saying hey guess what I am scum (which I wouldn't put past Wall-E considering he's practically trying to get lynched), it will be one of corporate, jersey and budja.

@milky

I'm assuming you had a reason to believe that you and Nekka would play the same instrument. I had a feeling that was what you were getting at in post 108, and wish you hadn't come out and said it explicitly. I will say that I doubt two people would play the same instrument and have different roles. Don't claim, but if you have a role that there's unlikely to be 2 of in a 12 player game then I would assume Nekka was lying. I'm going to apologize for the way I worded my original post, I was trying to say that someone who played clarinet and believed Nekka was lying would have voted for him shortly after his claim, yet no one but Wall-E actually did until after he picked up his first prod and I jumped on him for lurking.

[zachattack]

I've been getting a bad vibe from you from the start, but in the beginning it just felt like a hunch so I didn't pursue it. However, as the game progressed, you've grown on me more and more as a suspect. I want to re read the thread to build a better case on you but thus far haven't had a chance. But you come across as a parrot, most of your post's are just paraphrasing someone who posted before you. You've twice used the excuse that you weren't paying attention to vote counts when someone challenged you on a vote, once during the random vote stage, which wasn't a big deal, but then when you voted to put Wall-E at L-1 you again claimed you didn't notice the vote count, even though there was a large bandwagon on him and you could have easily been the hammer if you weren't paying attention. You hopped back in forth between the Wall-E and Nekka bandwagons, probably hoping to get the momentum going towards a lynch for one of them, before Nekka could post a response or be replaced. ( Yeah I know I was leading the wagon on Nekka, but I was only trying to put pressure on him to answer questions of him during his week long absence. I don't want him lynched and I don't want him to be considered for the NK, unless RF comes across scummy as well) When I have more time I'll go digging for specific examples, but those are my suspicions of you in a nutshell.

[zachattack]

When RF explains why you're suspicious are you going to acknowledge or defend yourself against anything she says? You didn't when I posted my suspicions.

I reread the thread, and although corporate is a solid #3 on my scummy list, I can't decide who's scummier out of Jersey and Budja. My reasons for not liking Budja are in the last post on Page 15. As for Jersey, except for one post where he FOSed Tolmides, he's posted no original content, except for constantly stating that we can't trust Gamma. He's just followed the town's lead the entire time. Earlier on he said he found Gamma suspicious, like a lot of the town did at that point, but didn't vote for him. I called him on being wishy washy, and in his next post he voted Gamma. He then unvoted when it was clear the town was going in a different direction, despite still being suspicious of Gamma.

Both Budja and Jersey put Wall-E at L-1 while the rest of the town were waiting to hear from RF, and still had Gamma's nightkill to discuss. Wall-E is a very easy lynch for scum to justify, his abrasiveness makes him a good target for scum to get rid of during the day and still come off as a pro town play. I still haven't decided which one I find more suspicious, and would not be the least bit surprised if they were scum together. Way back at the beginning, when everyone piled on Atlas, Jersey said Wall-E was the most suspicious of the bunch for being the second vote, ignoring Budja's third vote. Jersey caught some flak for this, and in post 47 Budja made sure to state that he didn't find Jersey suspicious.

One other small thing that makes me think they could be scumbuddies, Post 99, (I'm on my mobile, quote tags are nearly impossible on this, bear with me) Eek mentioned that Gamma could be SK, mafia or vig, which was the first mention in the thread of the possibility of Gamma being SK. In 108 he reiterated that Gamma feels like an SK, and in 114 I say that 'Gamma being the serial killer makes sense'. In 119 Budja the parrot says 'Gamma being the serial killer makes a lot of sense.' In 121 Jersey says 'I agree with Budja that SK actually makes sense with his stance' It's odd that after Milk brought up the possibility, and I posted that I thought it made sense before Budja did, that Jersey would credit Budja with the idea.

I think they're both scum, and since Jersey has more votes I'm going to

vote jerseygoomba

. Budja is my choice for Gamma's NK.

[zachattack]

It looks like people are waiting on Atlas' replacement. I don't really have anything new to comment on since my last post, I'm just waiting for the rest of the band to show up so we can finish the day.

[zachattack]

"Jordan's last post" references STILL OTHER posts unspecifically, ergo I cannot respond fully to them. If he comes back and clearly and succinctly STATES his case

(no more vague "read my posts" posts, because I have, and there's nothing there)

, I will promptly respond. See post 442 where I issue a very simple challenge that STILL nobody has bothered to take up.

... Are you for serious Wall-E? All your posts are either 'I answered this earlier' or 'CITATION NEEDED'. I think that your taking what people said earlier about 'he's being to much of an asshole to be scum' and running with it. I don't want to see you lynched, but I think if the lynch gets turned on jersey or someone else you'd be a great target for Gamma. I was hoping one of the people actually voting for you would take you up on post 442, but I guess I might as well do it. This is a long thread, and I'm kind of busy, but I'll try to have something up by tomorrow.

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

For the third or fourth time you're at L-1, and this time no one's rushing to unvote. You're probably going to be lynched today. I hope no one is dumb enough to hammer you before Atlas and Tolmides or their replacements get in here, but now's as good a time as any for that claim I think.

[zachattack]

Tony, your scumlist isn't really helpful unless you post reasons why people are where they are. Tolmides disappeared off the face of the earth, but I don't see what makes him scummier than Budja or Gamma. Is it his disappearance, or did you see something when he was here to put him that high?

[zachattack]

The first person to be suspicious of Wall-E was Nekka, Nekka asked why Wall-E liked Gamma's vig claim so much and Wall-E never explained why. What was so great about Gamma's vig claim? You've stated that you liked it, you like the idea of having a controllable and provavble killer, but why is this better than Gamma keeping quiet about who he is?

Eek voted for Wall-E, mostly because of Wall-E's dickishness and his loving the vig claim. Tony again asked why you're so supportive of the vig claim, you again dismiss it. Tony (and others) also asked how Gamma's kill is provable, you ignored this as well, instead focusing on Tony's suggestion that there may be a roleblocker.
"failure to address points noted."

Name one and I will fucking quote you where I already addressed it."
At this point you had never given a reason why Gamma's claim was a good thing, and hadn't explained how his kill is provable, so thats 2 points you hadn't addressed, you were coming across as evasive at this point.

What I said was DO NOT CONJECTURE ON WHO IS SCUM PARTNERS WITH WHOM BEFORE WE FIND OUR FIRST SCUM.

If you choose to do that, I will continue to tell you to shut the hell up.

This came after Tony suggested that you and Gamma could be scumbuddies. Much later I suggested Budja and Jersey looked like scumbuddies. You did not tell me to shut the hell up.

Post 220

Corporate is my vote for today until someone convinces me otherwise.

Post 225

Top two: corporate and nekka

I'm going with

Vote: Nekka-Lucifer

for being lucifer

What in between those two posts convinced you otherwise? I asked why Nekka over Corporate, your response was "Guts"

More from page 10

Wall-E: I think, in light of things that have been brought to my attention by people, Gamma should claim his kill after night is over. What say anyone?

Zach: Brought to your attention by who?

Wall-E: Read my posts in isolation. I've already said whom.

No, you didn't, I've read every one of your posts in isolation.

I'm taking a break. I'm on page 10. Questions for Wall-E to answer, or 'fucking quote where he already addressed it'

Why was Gamma's claim a good thing?
How is Gamma's kill provable?
Why is it ok for me to suggest Jersey and Budja are scumbuddies, but not ok for Tony to suggest Gamma and Wall-E are?
Why did you do a complete 180 from corporate to Nekka?
Who brought to your attention that Gamma should claim his kill after night is over?

Anyone want to jump in with anything I missed, or continue where I left off, feel free.

@ Gamma
If someone were to hammer Wall-E, who would you night kill?

[zachattack]

I'm not going to continue looking for a case against Wall-E. He needs to answer the questions I asked him earlier, and stop being such a dick with his 'I FUCKING ANSWERED THIS ALREADY' and 'CITATION OR YOUR TUNNELING ' posts that do absolutely nothing but get more people on his case. I think every player in the game is annoyed by you, and a lot of the reason I decided to look back was to see if I could find a way to justify hammering you, but I still believe by what content there is in your posts that you are town. I wouldn't mind seeing you lynched now, but I wont contribute to it. Jersey and Budja are scummier than you. However, I think you'd be a great person for Gamma to use his kill on, as it gets a distraction out of the game, and as long as you continue to be an asshole many townies are going to focus on you, instead of players more likely to be scum. For the people suggesting Gamma doesn't use his kill at all, surely it'd be good for the town to get a player who will never get nightkilled by the mafia, and will always be a promising lynch target out of the game.

Even if we do lynch Wall-E, nobody hammer until Atlas and Tolmides replacements get here. Also, Wall-E, if you have a claim that can save your ass, now would be a good time for it, since I don't see you surviving the day otherwise.

[zachattack]

Wall-E isn't acting scummy, he's acting like an asshole. You're acting scummy. I know Gamma's ability is unproven, although I think it's very likely he has it. That's why I want his kill to go to a player that I don't really think is scum, but is hurting the town with his play. I want the guaranteed kill (aka the lynch) to fall on a player who I believe to be part of the mafia. That's you or Budja.

[zachattack]

EBWOP

Wall-E is at L-1. Your vote is on him. If you were in no way advocating a quick lynch you wouldn't have your vote on him.

[zachattack]

You intentionally put Wall-E at L-1. You've kept your vote on him since then. Other people have unvoted, and re-voted Wall-E, so you're not the last person to have put him at L-1, but saying you put your vote on him long before he was at L-1 is a blatant lie.

[zachattack]

If you weren't advocating a quick lynch, and you said you weren't, you wouldn't have put him at L-1 in the first place, and when he got back to L-1, you would have unvoted. Yeah, other people have put him at L-1, but you did it first, and by leaving your vote on him you've allowed other people to do it. Saying you put your vote on Wall-E long before he was at L-1 is a lie, since you explicitly stated your intention with that vote is to put him at L-1. Just because he's come in and out of L-1 since then, doesn't make your statement any less of a lie.

[zachattack]

I'd rather not be prodded, so here you go, I don't have anything new to add, although I want to do a reread before the deadline to hopefully sway some people away from Wall-E and onto Jersey.

[zachattack]

Apologies for being away, I've been promising a case against Jersey for a while, but the lack of activity has caused me to lose a lot of interest in this game. I'm doing this now, hopefully it sparks some activity.

[zachattack]

No, I wasted my time earlier when I tried to build a case on Wall-E, because he annoyed me and I wanted to justify hammering him. After reading his post's it became apparent there was no case against him. You are scummier than him, you are the scummiest of all of us, except maybe Budja, and with the game the way it is, there is no chance of getting Budja lynched today.

[zachattack]

You came under suspicion very early in the game for suggesting that putting the second vote on someone in the RVS is scummier than the 3rd or 4th vote. Once Gamma claimed vig and broke the game wide open, you slipped under the radar a little bit.

I'm thinking out loud. I wanted to see if anyone else shares my concerns or thinks I'm overreacting (again). Not to mention, I want to give Gamma a chance to respond before I decide to vote for him. After all, isn't more discussion better than less, especially on Day 1? I want to make sure I am making a theoretically educated vote at this point.

At this point Gamma had made several responses to peoples concerns about his vig claim. This post looked like you were trying to gauge the towns opinion on voting for him, seeing if you could hop on the bandwagon safely, or if you would look suspicious because of it. I've always felt that people that are overly cautious with their votes are scum. Unless your a potential hammer, or putting someone in position to be hammered, you have no reason not to put your vote on someone you find suspicious if you are pro-town. In post 118 you made another post saying you were suspicious of Gamma but not convinced he was scum, in 119 Budja voted for Gamma, in 120 I called you out for not voting players you're suspicious of, and in 121 you voted Gamma. It looked like an attempt to appease me, as well as keep the heat away from you.

Since the town seems so dead set on keeping Gamma around tonight, I will

unvote Gamma

But I still do not see how his kill can be "proven".

This seems like you thought you could get momentum on a Gamma lynch, and once it became apparent there was none you washed your hands of it. If you thought he was scum, you should have kept your vote on him regardless of what the rest of the town thinks, unless you had someone else you found more suspicious.

We had a big spurt of activity for a few days (Imagine! Activity in this game! It seems so long ago) where Wall-E went into epic douche mode.

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things. If that is truly your answer Wall-E, I have to say the band might be better without you. I don't want to bring you to L-1 until we hear from Nekka, so I will refrain for now.

OK Wall-E, after rereading your posts on there own, I have decided to take you up on a challenge you posted earlier (Post 130):

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

I had unvoted Gamma way back there. I'm going to give you a chance to make your claim.

VOTE: WALL-E

Nekka didn't post in between those posts. Before the Guts post, the thread had been very active, and many of us were putting votes on Wall-E, and it looked like the bandwagon was about to run him over. In between, the thread slowed a little bit as we all waited with baited breath for Nekka, and a couple of people started a small bandwagon on him. It seemed like jersey thought they were so close to a lynch on Wall-E, and he didn't want the momentum to slip away, so he tried to push it over the edge.

I'm breaking up the wall of text, I'll finish soon.

[zachattack]

RF replaced Nekka, and voted for you, bringing up several good reasons for doing so. Almost every post you've made since then is you being over defensive any time someone mentions that you've been acting scummy. In fact, you've made 3 posts in the past two weeks, and two of those came minutes after I said I was going to build a case on you.

1. Gamma - The reason I did not vote Gamma right away was I wanted to hear more information from the town. I figured if I jumped the gun on a vote, I would be called scummy for voting without much info. So, instead I get called wishy-washy. So, I'm thinking, crap, I better just vote because folks are going to think it is scummy if I just point fingers and DON'T VOTE. After hearing further information from the rest of town about Gamma, I felt that I DID incorrectly jump the gun, although I admit to feeling pressured into it by being called wishy-washy. So basically Gamma became a damned if I do damned if I don't situation. If he is the vig, we won't know until after Night 1 anyway.

Why are you so desperate to have the town believe you aren't scummy. It's the scums job to appear townie, it's the town's job to find mafia. I'm not really concerned with what the town thinks of me because my goal isn't to survive, it's to make sure that scum don't. And there wasn't really a lot said about Gamma in between your vote and unvote that wasn't said before you're vote, Tolmides made a post saying we should keep him around, that you FOSed him for, Wall-E said 'Good we're not killing Gamma' and then you unvote. Looking back, your FOS on Tolmides seems like 'How dare you railroad our bandwagon' then when it became apparent no one was interested in the bandwagon you went 'lol unvote'.

There's also your 'I voted Wall-E way before he was put at L-1' when your vote for Wall-E put him at L-1, but that was page 20, not that long ago, and I don't need to reiterate it. So yeah, you're overdefensive, desperate to appease the town and appear townie in our eyes, and it seems like you're hoping the town lynches Wall-E quickly enough so that other's don't realize how scum you are. You're probably scum, much more likely to be scum than Wall-E, and I hope the rest of the town takes a good look at you before deadline/Wall-E gets lynched.

[zachattack]

I think Gamma should NK Budja or Wall-E. Budja is my number 2 scum, he's guilty of a lot of the same things that I accused Jersey of, and he and Jersey have been on the same page for much of this game. Wall-E, although he is not really suspicious to me, is suspicious to others, and although I think the mafia is pushing that lynch, not everyone on it is scum. His attitude is very distracting, and if he is town, he's still always going to draw town votes away from the actual scum until he is gone. As he's been the center of attention almost the entire game, we will be able to learn a lot from his interactions with other players, no matter his alignment. I think Gamma should make the final decision, as there is the potential for roleblockers, and Jersey's alignment will obviously affect his decision.

[zachattack]

Tolmides, Jordan, Atlas and Budja. Corporate didn't pick up his prod and was one of the five, but he's back now so that leaves four.

[zachattack]

This sounds like you're blaming jersey for Gamma's claim somehow. Is that right? Please clarify.

Nope. On Page 2 Gamma and Jersey were most people's first suspicions, Gamma for his fourth vote on Atlas, jersey for suggesting that you putting the second vote on Atlas was scummy. When Gamma claimed vig, all the attention went to him, and then you when you said 'Yay Vig!' and jersey took the opportunity to disappear.

[zachattack]

I'm here, I have nothing new to add.

[zachattack]

Good job guys, glad to see I was right about Wall-E.

[zachattack]

They were vanilla, you were the doctor, I was right enough.