"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 2520, Thestatusquo wrote:I think I like pressuring petapan. There's a bunch of town reads on him that I saw that don't really make much sense to me.
VOTE: petapan
In post 2523, Thestatusquo wrote:
Why do you town read him? Does it come after page 30? What I saw by page 30 was mainly a slap fight with my slot and being kind of an acerbic person. I would assume that's in his scum range and he even said as much himself.
missing from your posts is anything resembling an actual case
Yes, I scumread Dan.
Is it strong enough to make some sort of case for you? No not really.
I stated my read on dan actually in the reads list YOU ASKED FROM ME. literally 24 hours ago.
I also put them in my pile when we did that exercise for POE someone to eliminate and I favored dan when i couldn't get shea/cakez to finally pick someone.
So yes, I scumread Dan.
I don't know why you don't remember this position. But this is big game. I forgive u for forgetting and not doing a bit of research.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 2533, Black wrote:
Peta just hiding out waiting for the day to end doesn't feel right. And he's willing to just vote for whoever just to end it? What
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
WITH 17 VOTES IN PLAY, IT TAKES 9 TO MAKE A DECISION. DAY 1 ENDS IN (expired on 2023-02-17 17:05:00).
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
I feel a bit all over map.
I don't feel strongly on klick being scum but im not where i put him a town pile right now.
I don't feel strongly on redff anymore but that has almost all to do with his interactions with ali.
I don't want to elim ali right now but i don't like e posting as of late and i don't believe e would be townreading me.
petapan vs VPB feels.....idk. There were points where it felt peta was only there to argue and not actually scumhunt. There were points where it felt like VPB was signaling to peta that u don't want to get in a 1v1 with him which kind of seemed scummy but this reminded me of Shea vs VPB in past games. I felt i lost a few town points on peta from the exchange tbh. I didn't really move on VPB being basically null but my instinct is he is town.
CSF/Lycanfire are probably good places to vote right now imo.
but i don't have any like REALLY GOOD reads to pursue. Kind of disappointing. Was hoping a hero solve would appear by now
I don't like this post because it comes right after an exchange with alisae where FB is talking about making a case in his head on them. When I'm town and I'm solidifying a scum read I don't just immediately go off in the other direction. I would look at this as potential distancing if lycan flips red because it doesn't really match the head space I thought FB was in just 30 seconds earlier. If you think Alisae is scum you just make the case on alisae, right? If you think you need more info you vote alisae to create pressure.
In post 781, Lycanfire wrote:
Yeah, I feel like redFF is a shit wagon because they lack any sense of regard for the playerlist. I can count 8 instances where they are actively pissing someone off.
I'm happy to change course on this because I don't love it, but Taly has been vote parking all day after inserting themselves into Firebringer/MT. I'd say there were three instances where we broke out of RVS, and Taly was at the tail end of it and has stayed there. VOTE: Taly
this vote is ass. "hey did you folks all forget about that LHF over there? Lets go back over there!" This post doesn't ever come in a world where Lycan-RedFF are partnered either I don't think. It's too brazen and too early in the day and the thread momentum wasn't even in that direction.
In post 619, Aristeia wrote:
your comments are not even remotely accurate and i realize ive been too lax recently in terms of being overly nice to people who push me for completely nonsensical reasons unrooted in reality.
wow this is certainly a reasonable and townie way to react
Weird post. I think it kind of is a reasonable way to act, whether its townie or not is whatever but it seems like such an odd thing for someone to come into the thread and pick on.
All of Cakez posts are actually kind of like this. Some sort of quote or topic, immediate and unequivocated negative reaction, no follow through. Some of these people have to be scum, right? If you think their posts all suck this bad? Shouldn't you find someone you actually want to eliminate if that's the case?
My ari scum lean is kind of softening around page 50 or so. I see less of the poking people for stuff that I don't think actually helps her sort and more of the just thoughts that I think ring pretty true. I liked her reaction to the cakez stuff on this page, for instance.
Similarly I'm really not liking furtive around here. I feel like he keeps saying things like "LETS GET THE WAGONS GOING" or "EVERYONE VOTE" but he's not actually doing anything to provoke a game state that would lead to those things, I hesitate to say "its performative" because I'm a big believer in town players being performative frequently, but I have a hard time thinking why town would be performative in this manner.
In post 902, Firebringer wrote:
The only thing about cakez i agree with is scum cakez pushes things he thinks he can get away with as scum. Other than that, I don't see how town cakez doesn't just bad push you here given:
A) I don't think cakez remembers past games with you
B) I think cakez skims and is prone to make surface level reads/takes and therefore saw u as being "fluffy" and pushes u.
So everything here lines up with Cakez town to me.
He is more prone about giving his opinions that don't look to me like its trying to impress or care what others think. He isn't trying to appeal to anyone in particular. He is just throwing his reads at the wall of this game and doing so badly imo.
Cakez town
I don't think I agree with this. I think cakez mostly just does fuckall when he's scum.
I'm at page 40 and I have a similar critique of firebringer as I do with furtive. I feel like firebringer when I joined the thread told me that he started doing this list thing because no one could form consensus and I was wary of that kind of attempt at thread control because I don't think I've ever seen fb do that before as town, but it feels to me like he's just not doing anything to actually push in any real direction at this part of the game and while I agree reads are hard without flips usually the way to deal with that is to try to push for flips which I don't get any sense he's interested in doing here.
think lycan is town for reasons I’ll think are bad if i explain
can you fill us in here? lycan had made 4 posts when you said this
people were pushing lycan who had 4 posts and ignoring me who had probably less meaningful stuff to say by that point
so therefore i think lycan scum is relatively less likely
I have a hard time seeing scum who are lurking making quite this argument in quite this way.
The more I read of Asri the more I think that one is town. I think I might be predisposed to reading this kind of gimmick posting as townie though so I do need to be careful about biases there, it's just that, while people like to say that posting like this is something scum can use to hide in practice I think I have just very rarely seen scum actually do that.
I'm getting bad vibes from furtive after finally giving myself time to ISO him. There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari, and now I'm not so sure about Fire.
In post 864, furtiveglance wrote:actually yeah I think [Aristeia's] early progression on Fire was towny
This is furtive's most recent comment, and what led me to do the ISO in the first place. He made this revelation after I questioned him about his reaction to SirCakes voting for Aristeia (#638). Furtive came running to Ari's defense in #638 once SirCakes voted for her for "having 0 town posts in her entire ISO" (#611). This was the first time Furtive has communicated any reads on Ari, even though he was given the chance to earlier in the game. I'll get to that in a second. But first I want to emphasize here that Furtive's reasoning for calling SirCake's vote "unfair" is that Ari in fact
did
have a town post in her ISO, and it was her first post in the game, during the joke phase: #66
This is the only town post Furtive can reference in all of Ari's ISO? This leads me to the beginning of the game. Furtive got some pretty unjustified heat for not providing any reads, but when he defended himself, he said he didn't have any: #282. Here Furtive says he "didn't have anything to comment on" and "if I see something I'll say something." We now know he thought the Ari vote on Fire was towny, so why wouldn't he say something about it here? His only read in #282 is that his initial vote against Fire was serious and that "Fire would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town." Keep in mind here that Furtive admits he thinks Fire is kind of scummy.
Furtive's next notable move is to switch his vote from Fire to the Klick wagon in #303. Furtive's vote is the 4th vote on the wagon Klick wagon, which was started by Fire, followed by Aristeia and Morning Tweet. The scumread against Klick was essentially non-existent and boiled down to Klick guessing MT's intentions correctly. It's strange to me that Furtive would vote Klick here, especially considering he should have gotten a townread from Klick from #81. Furtive thinks Ari's vote on Fire was towny, but not Klick's?
You know who else voted for Fire early? RedFF, in #86. What's notable here is that both Klick and redFF appear at the very bottom of Furtive's Scum List. Aristeia is in the middle of the list, despite Furtive admitting recently that he had a townread on her from her Fire vote. I'm confused why Furtive didn't townread Klick and RedFF for their Fire votes. And Fire, interestingly enough, is at the top of the list, despite Furtive being suspicious of him earlier. The only thing that changed was Fire's weak case against Klick. That was apparently enough to move Fire from the bottom of the list to the top?
Black could have endgamed in a historic win but I had to stop that
I don't like this flip on Fire, especially when both Fire and Furtive have openly discussed how Fire would play as scum. And it just so happens Fire is actually playing that way. Bold is my emphasis:
In post 282, furtiveglance wrote:I don't know - I had thoughts, my vote on Firebringer wasn't a joke, but it's not the strongest read either -
just that I think he would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town
. Whether or not I 'go hard' also can depend on my current mood and schedule as well
In post 581, Firebringer wrote:
We would all do better to take an internet forum game less seriously. I approve of this mentality.
I can also vibe with the not letting team down thing,
its the only thing that kind of sucks about playing scum. But then I eventually figure my team wants to have more fun than to win or at least they should. So then i don't feel so bad about when im playing bad as scum
In post 583, Firebringer wrote:
if everyone took my philisophy of playing mafia and just ran with it.
Everyone would enjoy the game.
But then the number of scum claiming in games would probably break the game
and we would all be hunting players who try to even pretend to be townie. Would either be horrifying or interesting to see.
I found these three comments interesting. Furtive admits that Fire would enjoy posting the way he did at the beginning of the game moreso if he were scum. And Fire admits that he doesn't like to let his team down when playing scum, but that his team would rather have fun than win, so he still feels good about doing things like scumclaiming as scum. In the second quote from Fire, he's saying more people would enjoy the game if they scumclaimed as scum. If Fire eventually flips wolf (which, again, I'm not sure of and it probably depends on furtive's/Ari's alignment), this will be read as Fire trying to excuse his early game actions.
Furtive's next big move is to leave the Klick wagon in #590 and vote for redFF, conveniently right after Fire abandons it in #502 to also vote for redFF.
Talking to the town here eh? Trying to get them to wagon Klick off of a swiss-cheese argument?
All of these things, combined with the gut feelings I get from some of his other comments, have made furtive is my top wolf candidate. If I end up being right about this, my attention will turn to Ari and Fire.
VOTE: furtiveglance
okay, so. i think a post like this mostly allays any doubts/concerns i had about black and for a player who's probably at least a little rusty i'm willing to write them off as town for efforting like this. i'm less sold on the contents of the case. (btw, Black, people complain about long posts but imo spoiler tagging things is giving people an invitation to skip a post, many skim the thread and won't click just my 2 cents)
first of all, "There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari" immediately makes me doubt the accuracy of this because it's tying things to a player who probably isn't scum, in general doing stuff making these associative cases is pretty low accuracy because you can get hung up on incidental stuff, and if one of your targets is town often the whole thing falls apart. that type of case usually comes more often from town who are overzealous though i think
to start with i think saying 66 was the only post furtive was calling town is unfair, when he says "the early push on firebringer" he clearly means the subsequent posts, not just the vote (and if you read for context you'd know it was fairly serious)
you're making a big deal out of a lot w/r/t furtive not saying anything about ari in the early game, there's a lot of a possibilities where maybe he noticed the post but didn't think it was worth saying anything due to it being a minor townlean, or maybe the read wasn't apparent to him then but was upon review
In post 918, Black wrote:Furtive thinks Ari's vote on Fire was towny, but not Klick's?
this in particular is uncharitable, ari going after firebringer had substance to it (she thought him claiming scum had substance and kept pressing on it), klick didn't really have much follow through
and then with a lot of the latter stuff i think you're completely missing that the tone of those posts is supposed to be pretty flippant, doesn't really add up to him being scum
idk i want to give you a passing grade for effort but i think the case is very uncharitable to furtive's play
I think this is the first post from peta that I've seen that I want to put in the town bin. The analysis is novel and for the most part I think accurate.
My sense of black at this point is very different from the impression I got from him real timing. Hey feels reeeeeeeeaaaaaally earnest. That's part of why I noted petapans post because it kind of echoes what I thought as I read it, which is agreeing with the tone and thinking the general thought process behind it was pure but thinking that there were some pretty big flaws in logic.
I think cakez is a little better around 45. I meant it earlier when I said I think he kind of just does fuck all as scum a lot of the time and he appears to be doing Things TM here. Not sure I agree with those things but they are things.
In post 1208, Gimli wrote:Yes they can all be scum and there's nothing bastard about an all scum hood.
Really? Seems kinda bastard if you ask me. What's the point of an all scum hood?
Not alignment related but the point is that if it happens sometimes people can't break your games by using what they expect the mod to do. You shouldn't be able to look at the hood and say "yep, there's town in there." otherwise the role is much stronger than it is actually intended to be and balanced as. As a mod I try very hard to subvert my players expectations so they can't just flip a few roles and know exactly what the setup is, and I suspect datisi mods in a very similar way. I would treat the players in the hood the same way I would treat any other player in this game.
I don't like this post because it seems like the kind of thing to poke at if you're trying to keep someone from being town read who you want to eliminate later. I too when reading mistyx's posts on this thread felt pings of the townie variety and while I wouldn't go so far as to say shes hard town I can definitely see what furtive was picking up on here, and if firebringer disagrees you'd expect him to have more to say about them being scummy instead of just posing this question.
In post 1307, redFF wrote:
cakez wagon seems to have lost momentum without him really doing anything?
post reads
ok let me go through the playerlist and see where im at
fb - town
peta - not sure slight town read
sirecakez - scum
vp - i dunno lol
aristeia - town
alisae - still scummy but not gonna get lynched today so
taly - town
gimli - scum, has done nothing to alleviate my suspicions, i've scumread him since early and don't like any of his posting
furtiveglance - null-scum
klick - town
MT - i had a town read earlier, but probably should look back into it
lycan - ehhh
mistyx - this player is in this game? null i guess
black - town
redFF - MEGA NUMBER 1 TOWN
CSF - i think they've made some insightful posts and i was impressed they guessed the 3rd hood member, if there is scum in the hood i don't think scum csf correctly "guesses" the 3rd hood member like that. so if scum in the hood i think CSF is guaranteed to be town (unless klick ends up flipping scum, that would be an interesting associative if that happens as they couldve worked that back and forth out together)
asri teroka - annoying
This is kind of a weird post. There does not seem to be a depth to most of these and then BAM detailed explanation about CSF in particular. I don't know what this means but I'm noting it.
Alisaes black back to cakez progression on page 57 is weeeeeeeird mayne.
In post 1440, Black wrote:
I came back to read this after some fresh air. I'm really confused why town!Alisae would get this upset over a vote. I don't think I deserved to be treated that way. It's cool if you think I'm scum for voting you but why the anger? Why the personal jabs at my playstyle and intelligence? That's what doesn't make sense to me.
I'm having a hard time coming up with reasons why town!Ali would react this way. But I really hope I'm wrong about you, I really do. If you're scum!Ali and this is how you treated me, I'm not sure if I can ever forget that
My intentions are never to upset people when I vote for them. I hope moving forward we can play the game without the extra hatred and anger involved
This game is soo fucking stupid I feel like I cannot post anything without ten people going "LOL CAKEZ NO LOGIC HES SCUM"
I don't even fucking want to explain myself because some asshole is going to go "nah but what about this bro what are you even doing xD xD lol!" This is so fucking annoying who even has fun playing Mafia like this? Like just fucking let me do my thing for five seconds and figure people out. I can't fucking do anything this game without somebody finding a way to shade me and call me scum for it.
Yeah I fucked up my read on Ari I missed two posts or fucking WHATEVER where she agreed with me for two things. I know I suck soooo fucking bad right?
Yeah I think Alis town core is fucking scummy because e has players in there that the majority of the game has as null at best. Is e protecting buddies? Saving limbait for later? I don't FUCKING KNOW but I don't see why e would do that as town! I don't fucking put players that most of the game don't town read in a "town core". Who defines a town core as players like that? Fucking no one!
God fucking damn! I haven't been this pissed by a game in a while. I get limmed all the time but at least people aren't so shitty about it normally I just feel sad not like an actually shit mafia player.
I KNOW I'm shit at mafia. I don't play this game so I can have a 100% ELO god tier paragon mafia hunter rate or fucking whatever. I log in for 30 minutes to an hour a day, read as much as I can and make analysis from that. I don't have the brainpower or time to sit around pulling a fucking Freud re ISOing their 100 posts reading their 500 game meta and being like HMMMM WHAT IF ALISAE WAS ACTUALLY PULLING A 720 UNO REVERSE CARD AND IS REACTION TESTING THE SCUM or some fucking bullshit like that. I see someone post a reads list that makes no sense to me I think that's pretty fucking scummy. I feel like it's not rocket science but someone always has to be like "WELL WHY DIDNT YOU THINK OF THIS CAKEZ!!!! YOURE SCUMMMM!!!" I just want to come in and have some fun and post a little analysis and some reads and fuck off back to my hole. I can't sit around here figuring everything fucking out.
God damn I had to get this off my chest.
cakez dude you don't have to be sophistaced you just have to give us something more to work with than calling lists "trash" and "bad"
i'm not happy to have pushed you to this point but this is at least a start, i might address the rest later but for now take a break
I think this response from peta is pretty town tbh. I don't know peta personally but I get the impression he's the kind of guy who doesn't let emotions get in the way of pushing win con. I see two worlds here 1) If cakez is town why would scum peta want to try to reach out to stop a potential self destruct and b) if cakez is scum I feel like this is too connected-y? I don't really know how to explain that last part and I might be just reading too much into petapan being the kind of person who cares more about peoples emotions than he does about winning a mafia game, which I do hope is actually the case.
I'm kind of upset I haven't gotten a cool asri nickname yet like Shea of the Quo or something.
I'm at the actiondan replace in and my issue with it are I guess that it doesn't really seem like something that is designed to actually read back into the game. I think I agree with fireisred on this.
I kind of really hate this firebringer list thing a lot now that I'm seeing it live and seeing how absolutely zero effort firebringer put into actually finding scum.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
