Xyl's Relative Chaos - Game over!

[Xylthixlm]

Vote Count

tubby216 -

3

(SpyreX, ZazieR, CoheedCambria09)
DrippingGoofball -

2

(DoomCow, Natirasha)
dahill1 -

2

(animorpherv1, DrippingGoofball)
CoheedCambria09 -

2

(Korts, dahill1)
DoomCow -

1

(hasdgfas)
Korts -

1

(Crazy)
farside22 -

1

(Vi)

Not voting: MafiaSSK, farside22, tubby216

With 15 alive, it will take 8 to lynch. The deadline for day 1 will be Saturday, December 6.

[Vi]

Unvote: DrippingGoofball

Vote: farside22

(L-7)
Go on, keep pushing that reread back.

This is a terrible vote. Please explain.

I'm fairly sure that I've mentioned previously that I'm suspicious of farside, starting early but occupying me starting around Vi 269. This dodging about isn't helping that at all. I'll wait for farside to finish reading before changing my vote, because two things I

don't

see (yet) are answers to these--

*So with The Internet offline, I'm interested in who you will place your vote on, since he is/was hardly the only noncontributory party ITT.

[Since then farside has jokevoted DrippingGoofball, and is not currently voting for anyone]

*Meanwhile, why did you drop tubby when you seemed to disagree with most of the points brought up in his favor?

And no, I don't count this as an answer--

Anyways as for Tubby which Vi wants an answer from me. I felt his first few post were bad. No hold bars bad. The vote for Crazy for defending him was terrible. Also I always, always feel suspciious when people defend others especially when something is scummy. Not oh he is a newbie type comment is unacceptable.
However I feel I need to reread again to really see a few things. I did not CC's vote on Tubby felt very opportunist.

--because it does not answer my question of why she unvoted tubby in the first place.

Also, nice snappy appearance from the cow department when I voted farside to a precarious L-7.

[farside22]

@Vi: Because The Internet's lurking and gripping about lack of posting was very scummy in comparison to Tubby at that time. Dahil's comments made me feel better, but I wanted to read the game again before I placed a serious vote on anyone. Hence the comment about Tubby.
Also I don't like being single minded on one person. There is always more then one scum. It's dumb not to look at everyone.

[farside22]

7 to now:
The Internet: Post 162 gah more nothing. Why is this so difficult?
Crazy: Post 166 I see too many people doing this tactic day one to catch scum. It always fails so anything is possible.
Vi: Post 168 why only SpreX or Korts?
DGB: Post 170 Why?
Vi: Post 172. My reason's for Tubby had nothing to do with the rediculous role fishing comment and more with the following of others.
spreX post: 173 Don't you think people have enough experience to know better then to do what you are claiming here?
hascow: post 174 why doomcow over everyone else you read on?
doomcow: post 179 sarcasm noted however day 1 and all days should have analysis of some sort. Scum fear it.
The Internet: Post 183 says the person who has contributed nothing at this point
animorph: post 185 (pinches nose) I just don't understand you.
hascow: post 187. Agree
doomcow: post 193 then why do you keep mentioning just morph and vi?
Vi: post 205: RL happens it isn't just words. There is lurking and then there is RL. I know I have put myself into too many large games at this point.
morph: post 235: How about your views on who is scum that isn't OMGUS?
crazy : post 240: No he's scum because he is acting scummy. What part of his case is crap? Do you think following peoples ideas is not scummy? Why?
tubby: post 243: Reason's and quotes on this vote please.
hascow: post 249: Can you give more reason to have doomcow lynched?
CC post: 257 This vote is opportunist. No reason for the vote just an added vote on a BW.
morph: post 258: Pot this is kettle.
dahil: Post 263: I don't mind your views, but telling people you find others town in your read is bad.
dahil: post 267: Not obvtown k.
Vi: post 269: Most I have on tubby is his following of others which always rings my scumdar with newbies. I think the whole rolefishing comments were crap.
Korts: post 273: Not in this case
dahil post: 274 Agree
Korts post: 303: Why just skimming?
dahil: post 308: Why bring up CC comments then say Korts vote is suspicious?
Korts: post 310: That's because your case on SpryX was weak.
Vi: post 320: Have yet to seen a case against me or DGB. Seems out of the blue comment with nothing backed up.
DGB: post 323: You asked for a BW what do you expect?
SpyreX: post 327: Why no beef with The Internet and then dahill replacement?
SpreX: post 332: The problem with lurkers. If they are posting enough the mod won't replace them. The scum love them and if they are town the town suffers. Usually with lurkers I find one or two scum in that group.
dahill post 337: Do you think people dont' change there minds on who's scum based on actions they do later in the game?
CC: post 356: So wait you purposely voted for someone with the biggest BW instead of reading and making your own analysis?
doomcow: post 360: first I have to stop laughing. Okay no just no. Vi admitted it was a joke and morph was obviously faking because he saw Vi faking. They were joking. You know joking? Why won't you do analysis day 1?


Okay Vi you haven't brought any case against me you are just asking questions. Question do not equal suspicion at all.
Finally done.

Vote: CC

The votes and comments are horrible. A vote for no reason on a BW without reading. Not just anti town. Scummy

Fos: MafiaSSk, Tubby, DGB, Morph and Vi

Mafia if this game is too much ask for a replacement if you are town. You have provided crap
Tubby you still look bad for following. Even you write up post explaining yourself is still everything that others stated. I really want to see who you find scummy and why.
DGB: I haven't seen you offer much. You being behind and the vote on dahil makes no sense.
Morph stop following. Read the game give your views
Vi: You haven't given much as far as your own suspicion or reasons for who is scum. All you do is ask questions. It's something I did as scum once. I'm watching you.

[dahill1]

dahil: post 308: Why bring up CC comments then say Korts vote is suspicious?

it wasn't scummy that he was voting for CC, but more the fact that he switched so suddenly off of a case he had been pushing very hard.

dahill post 337: Do you think people dont' change there minds on who's scum based on actions they do later in the game?

no they do, but Korts' change of heart was too quick IMO

[farside22]

dahil: post 308: Why bring up CC comments then say Korts vote is suspicious?

it wasn't scummy that he was voting for CC, but more the fact that he switched so suddenly off of a case he had been pushing very hard.

dahill post 337: Do you think people dont' change there minds on who's scum based on actions they do later in the game?

no they do, but Korts' change of heart was too quick IMO

Have you ever played with the internet? If so was he scum or town and did he seem different this game from that game?

[animorpherv1]

I am giving what I think. If you don't agree, then well, I can't do anything to stop that, but I am giving my own opinion.

[Vi]

(@farside 378) And what you have done works well enough for me.

Unvote: farside22

Before I forget, could you explain your reaction in farside 256?

---

All right, sorting some things out...

Vi: Post 168 why only SpreX or Korts?

I saw you had jumped onto the wagon as well, but for a different reason (which you brought up in a few of your other comments). Those two were the ones I saw who were driving the case on tubby OMGrolefishing.

Vi: post 320: Have yet to seen a case against me or DGB. Seems out of the blue comment with nothing backed up.

You, already covered.
DGb started blatantly useless (hence my vote) and to all appearances has stayed blatantly useless (hence why it didn't change until I pressured you).

Okay Vi you haven't brought any case against me you are just asking questions. Question do not equal suspicion at all.

I don't blithely ask whatever comes to mind (when I'm asking about the game, anyway). If I ask someone something, much more often than not I'm following up on something that could/should be perceived as scummy, and an unsatisfactory answer will have consequences.
Then again, from your end I think that would take a psychic connection to know ahead of time, so I understand where you're coming from.

Vi: You haven't given much as far as your own suspicion or reasons for who is scum. All you do is ask questions. It's something I did as scum once. I'm watching you.

*watches back* 0.0

---

Well, since you said something, here's where everyone stands with me after a reread. Forewarning for bluntness.

MafiaSSK

- Useless, and sketchy even with his meta. The sooner he puts out his PbPA, the sooner we can get an answer to the question of why he thinks tubby is the scummiest (and doesn't start talking about it until tubgate is over).

DoomCow

- Useless, mostly. Hung up on the post restriction thing, and reluctant to do analysis because nobody has died yet (*insert rant about NK WIFOM here*). Unfortunately, my meta on him is that "useless, mostly" is his playstyle.

Natirasha

- Artificially semi-useless. But aside from that, I see what he's doing and I don't see anything wrong with him so far.

Crazy

- Not useless. I generally agree with what he has been saying, though that isn't indicative of his alignment. That's about all I can say either way.

hasdgfas

- Not really useless. Most of his posts after replacing in are pointing out the uselessness of others, but judging from his vote DoomCow is still in the lead on his scumlist. No read either way.

farside22

- Hai~ I understand that you voted for tubby for different reasons than the others. I'm not sure what to say about tubby biting the hand that feeds him -> scumtell, although it was a horrible move on his part. Other than that, I think you check out at this point. Null read.

CoheedCambria09

- Useless. His vote in 257 is only made worse by his justification of it to ZazieR. Possibly avoiding this game; needs to exist more.

animorpherv1

- Surprisingly not the most useless person in the game upon reread, but in the running. The violent OMGUS against DoomCow stands out, but was kind of deserved. I would like some clarification about post 79. Basically, dahill1 put it right on the nose in that ani is providing color commentary more than anything (and following me, it seems...). Oh, and farside has reread; you can post now

Vi

- That one person, with the posts. Trying not to be useless.

SpyreX

- Not useless; I just disagree with him. I'm still not confident in his reread in 327, but aside from what I've already said about it I don't think I can go forward with attacking it. Intuitively, I'm leaning toward anti-Town.

dahill1

- With The Internet unplugged and dahill1 replacing him, this player slot is no longer useless. Actually, I find myself agreeing with everything dahill1 says. 'Seems Townish enough.

DrippingGoofball

- Useless, which unfortunately fits her meta juuuuuuust fine. Ignores the tubby case while it goes on and tries to chase it afterward, which is just off-putting. Trying to follow the logic (or even the humor) in her posts is bending my brain into a U-shape. I don't know what to think.

Korts

- Not useless, although he owes us a reread. The sudden flip on tubby doesn't seem kosher. I'm very interested in seeing how he re-evaluates SpyreX (for the record, in Spyre-scum's position I would definitely keep going with the tubby wagon). I also notice that he flips to CC09

before

stating that he can't pursue his case on SpyreX. Red flags sighted.

tubby216

- Not useless in the group setting at least. I (still) don't think he's automatically scum, so much as a newb/n00b in deep trouble. I would like to hear more from him in general, if possible :v

ZazieR

- Not really useless. ZazieR's way of going about these games is similar to mine. However, reading through her posts, I see what farside was talking about earlier - aside from being anti-tubby, she doesn't seem to take any stances so much as act as an argument parser. 'Worth looking into. (Also, what is your avatar from?)

@mod: Crazy and SpyreX need prods.

---~Summary~---
(italics denote people I'm unsure of)

Townish

dahill1

Natirasha

Null

farside22
hasdgfas
Crazy

tubby216

Scummish

ZazieR
Korts
SpyreX

DrippingGoofball

MafiaSSK

DoomCow

CoheedCambria09

animorpherv1

As you can see, IMO there are a lot of people who deserve votes, dayvigs, etc. However, if I had to pick one, I'll go with intuition and

Vote: SpyreX

(L-7)

[Vi]

@animorpherv1: What is your opinion on dahill1 (The Internet's replacement)?

[farside22]

@Vi: You talking about the What post to the Internet?
If so I just didn't understand why he said what he did. It's like when you call someone out and instead of facing it they say they are confused and leaves. It just gives me all sorts of scum vibes. Dahill is doing better then his predessor but something I want to keep an eye on.

[dahill1]

dahil: post 308: Why bring up CC comments then say Korts vote is suspicious?

it wasn't scummy that he was voting for CC, but more the fact that he switched so suddenly off of a case he had been pushing very hard.

dahill post 337: Do you think people dont' change there minds on who's scum based on actions they do later in the game?

no they do, but Korts' change of heart was too quick IMO

Have you ever played with the internet? If so was he scum or town and did he seem different this game from that game?

nope, never played with him

I am giving what I think. If you don't agree, then well, I can't do anything to stop that, but I am giving my own opinion.

do you think i'm scum and/or deserving of a vote at the moment, and if so explain why?

[farside22]

I am giving what I think. If you don't agree, then well, I can't do anything to stop that, but I am giving my own opinion.

Then why the need to wait on me and why so vague when you talk about your suspicions?

[CoheedCambria09]

CoheedCambria09

- Useless. His vote in 257 is only made worse by his justification of it to ZazieR. Possibly avoiding this game; needs to exist more.

I'm not avoiding this game. Thats the honest truth. I've been busy so I just haven't been doing in depth reads on it. This game is still very confusing for me.

[dahill1]

This game is still very confusing for me.

how so?

[CoheedCambria09]

Since I haven't been able to read in-depth and analyse anything, its hard to pick out cases or suspects.

[Vi]

Since I haven't been able to read in-depth and analyse anything, its hard to pick out cases or suspects.

When would you like to start reading and analyzing?

[SpyreX]

SpyreX: post 327: Why no beef with The Internet and then dahill replacement?
SpreX: post 332: The problem with lurkers. If they are posting enough the mod won't replace them. The scum love them and if they are town the town suffers. Usually with lurkers I find one or two scum in that group.

1.) The Internet was such a lurker I had no real read beyond lurker. Dahill doesn't give that bad vibration at this point.
2.) If it becomes a pattern then yes it needs to be eliminated. Day 1 does not make for a pattern. In addition, there are multiple avenues that I find to be more scummy than day 1 lurking. Tubby, still, being first and foremost.

Now, as to that whole tubby business. He keeps asking me if I have anything else to ask him when he knows he hasn't done anything else and others had been more than happy to jump up and defend that initial action. So, yes, I still find what happened scummy enough to warrant the vote I still have. I really dont like not being able to get anything else out of him knowing that what I will go to the grave saying it was a scummy play that, due to his defenders and absence, isn't going to get the lynch.

@Vi:

No need to prod. I'm here.

SpyreX - Not useless; I just disagree with him. I'm still not confident in his reread in 327, but aside from what I've already said about it I don't think I can go forward with attacking it. Intuitively, I'm leaning toward anti-Town.

What would you like further explanation of about 327?

What made you decide on throwing that vote my way versus the other 7 (or 2 sans italics) on your list?

[Korts]

First, answers to farside. Then, a reread in a seperate post. Reread may come a bit later today, because I'm going home by train in ca. three hours and have multiple games to catch up on.

Korts: Post 9 what do you mean too much filth comment?

I meant it as a pun on The Internet's name, because of the huge amount of porn and such online. Why do you feel my comment was any more than random?

Korts: Post 13 why point this out?

I didn't really think it through, actually. I was making a mental note, but then it occured to me that it would be better to share with the town.

Korts: Post 19 how is that role fishing?
Korts: Post 22. I don't see it.

I could be taken as rolefishing because tubby's raised theory basically asked for confirmation or denial, both of which would've outed power roles. But I'm pretty convinced that that wasn't intentional on tubby's behalf.

Korts: Post 23 then why bring it up in the first place?

Again, I didn't realize that it would promote speculation, which was dumb of me. I brought it up because it could be important later on.

Korts: post 144: Why SpreX and not Doomcow?

Because of SpyreX's post 119. DoomCow didn't profess undying loyalty to the tubby wagon.

Korts: post 273: Not in this case

Why do you deny the likely possibility that any reply to tubby's theory would've outed power roles easily?

Korts post: 303: Why just skimming?

RL pressure. Don't have much time to be thorough...

Korts: post 310: That's because your case on SpryX was weak.

Wasn't weak when I made it; there just weren't any more points to back it up. And I acknowledged that when I went over it again.

A bad newb move that the only recourse is negative for the town is a bad newb scum move still.

I seriously did. Not a newb tell this time.

Looks like Tubby's the main suspcious person. Will get working on a PBPA of him.

? If it has to do with gut, just quote this post.

Unfortunately that's how MafiaSSK operates every game he's in. He can only scumhunt in PBPA's and will only do PBPA's on the most suspected players. This is regardless of alignment. I can provide links if you want... (seriously though, SSK, don't you feel guilty that you don't contribute?)

[Vi]

No need to prod. I'm here.

Phooey. *puts down the red-hot poker*

I'd like to ask your opinion of DoomCow, and also whether tubby is still the best choice IYO considering all the scummy people you pointed out earlier. But again, I still

feel

it's a weak analysis. Aiding my intuitive read of weakness, for instance, was how you didn't express concrete suspicion of Korts until after I poked you. Also,

Well, we've got 3 hardcore lurkers that I dont like but I'm nto one to jump on their ass day 1.

Sometimes its fine to put pressure on the obvious targets - they ARE obvious for a reason, afterall.

Do these statements conflict?

My vote on you is a placeholder at the moment; with seven people on my scumlist and three of them with questions outstanding I chose the person I was already most suspicious of, to be revised pending replies.

[Korts]

I certainly don't like invented PR's, even if they're claimed to be false at forehand. Therefore I'm getting a bit suspicious about Animrpherv1 and Vi (especially the first fake PR he used, the one that wasn't anounced as fake at forehand).

I'm gonna be needing a reread soon, but I'm not sure when I get the time to do a full read. I'm still up with the game as it goes though..

I don't understand why this is an issue. There are other things that have happened, and the PR issue is ambiguous at best anyway.

DC's post 151 is much better.

Post 94 - morph: You're adding a fake PR too? ridiculous.

What can I say? I felt like it.

animorpherv is lurking in plain sight again.

Anyone believe that Korts really

was

making a case against tubby just to gauge reactions? I don't. Saying "Nevermind about all that stuff I was doing; I didn't really mean it" is a scum-tell in my book.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Vote: Korts

This whole post relies on the fact that me originally pushing the tubby case was scummy. Since it was entirely valid factually, I don't see why the switch could've been done in order to show myself in better light. I've already said this, haven't I?

I don't believe faking post restrictions is a null tell. At all.

DGB coming in to say a vague statement about a minor issue implies that she's lurking in plain sight.

Korts - I find myself agreeing with you about tubby being the most serious thing to talk about early on. I also agree that votes/lynches are good ways to discourage scumplay. However, by Korts 80 it sounded like he had made the jump to tubby being scum and extending it to Crazy being a scumpartner, which I don't agree with.

I think I'll err on the side of caution on this one and not vote Korts this time. But my (weak and usually incorrect) intuition is telling me I'm making a bad move on this one...

Hardcore fence-sitting, if you don't mind me saying so...

farside - I'm not sure about this one. On one hand, it IS jumping on an easy bandwagon; on the other hand, she has defended her point a couple of times. I don't think I have enough information to move on here.

Hardcore fence-sitting, if you don't mind me saying so...

Also in the same post of Vi's, he makes a jab against SpyreX on weak basis (doesn't acknowledge the possible downsides to tubby's theory).

farside, see SpyreX's post 173 to see how tubby's initial theory could validly be taken as rolefishing.

Post 149 - DoomCow: Wow, what a wonderful noncommital post.

I still need to reread, had some busy days but will eventually get to it though. As for that post, I clearly state my suspicions towards Vi and Animorpherv1.

Post 151 - DoomCow: Why do you think he's the option?

Because of that scummy looking post he made about Crazy.

DoomCow: Hasn't posted any analysis. Just information. I(and tarhalindur) find that scummy. High scumminess.

Wow! no analysis on day 1. Imagine that. It's just, what is there to analyse? Since nobody died as of now, we don't know the possible motives around anything that has happened. So any analysis made at this point would have to be revised later.

Admittedly he says he needs to reread, but I severely disagree with the analysis point. The stance he takes is so counterproductive to town win conditions that it's slightly scummy. More anti-town than scummy, though. The reasoning for the tubby vote is very vague, however, and seems like he doesn't want to properly justify it because he can't and was, in reality, trying to inconspiciously bandwagon.

Post 149 - DoomCow: Wow, what a wonderful noncommital post.

I still need to reread, had some busy days but will eventually get to it though. As for that post, I clearly state my suspicions towards Vi and Animorpherv1.

unvote vote: DoomCow

. Your a great suspect, the fake PR's are what we want to do. We've already talked abou tit. It's ocer. Stop brininging ti up. I ahve a new PR, bulit just for you.

*DoomCow sucks*

Happy?

I dislike how the most animorpherv can come up with in the way of contribution is a vote rooted in the vote on him (a.k.a. OMGUS), and the reasoning is based on an entirely minor issue. The vote here is weak, and the contribution to the whole of discussion virtually nil.

But I was annoyed at the fact he wanted to vote us both because of personal preference. If you can't take personal prefernce, then you have a problem.

Could you explain this a bit better? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Seconded, I dont understand either.

CC's contribution levels are on par with animo's pretty much.

A bad newb move that the only recourse is negative for the town is a bad newb scum move still.

What bugs me is that SpyreX refuses to acknowledge the possibility of tubby not understanding the consequences of his proposed theory. This does imply that SpyreX wants an easy lynch.

Tubby: I don't like him following first Korts (post 18), the Crazy (post 47) and then Farside (76). I also don't like post 76 at all, it's the reason I voted him in the first place. After that not much that made him more or less scummy.

Again, he only vaguely indicates post 76 as a reason for his vote, but doesn't clarify what about that post is scummy.

Post 214 by DGB I approve of. Proper fishing for reactions and stirring up shit. Post 216 by the same author is a little bit off, though, I don't know what DGB was hoping to achieve with a direct question about alignment.

animo, however, is still lurking in plain sight. Case in point:

Thoughts ATM:

Korts & Tubby thing: have no clue if their just angry, or Korts has a good idea behind it.

Yes, it would be nice to see more people post!

Because tubby still hasn't explained his "play" to where I think its anything but bad news.

What kind of explanation are you expecting, exactly, other than the one that you already got?

Post 258 by animo is also bad.

With that, I'm up to dahill's analysis. Gotta go and work on catching up with another game now. Will return to this tonight.

PS.
----------

Dear Coheed and animo

Kindly post actual suspicions and proper arguments

Make it snappy, too

With love, your dearest Korts, on behalf of Xyl's town

RSVP

----------

[Vi]

Hardcore fence-sitting, if you don't mind me saying so...

'Cuz you're not hardcore (no you're not hardcore)
Unless you live hardcore (unless you live hardcore)
And the sitting on the fence was WAY HARDCOOOOOORE--~

In all seriousness and with less shamelessness, I'd call it cautiousness. Is it okay for me to not know where to go with some people at any given time?
Meanwhile, check out that more recent analysis if you want something better. (It's coming later in your reread)

Also in the same post of Vi's, he makes a jab against SpyreX on weak basis (doesn't acknowledge the possible downsides to tubby's theory).

? I'm not sure what you're talking about re: "tubby's theory".

[Korts]

I'm not sure what you're talking about re: "tubby's theory".

I mean this:

Note to town: I have a vague idea that this initial votecount has more relevance than just a starting point. It may outline connections or other information. As of now, I'm copying its current state into my notes, because if it contains any relevant information, Xyl is bound to change it eventually.

Can you explain why you think that?

i would think it has something to do with power roles that those that have them have the most votes to intice them to be more active but thats just pure speculation

unvote

sorry diddn't realize i had a vote out there

[Korts]

EBWOP:

Is it okay for me to not know where to go with some people at any given time?

Yeah, sure. Is it okay for me to point out potential scum behaviour?

[Vi]

EBWOP:

Is it okay for me to not know where to go with some people at any given time?

Yeah, sure. Is it okay for me to point out potential scum behaviour?

No. *bolt from heavens comes down and smites your locus*

...actually, yes. Carry on; note the explanation when making future decisions.

--~--

I'm pretty sure I said something earlier about that quote, perhaps not in that post. Yes, I can see why it's worth hatred in light of exposing PRs - this was explained to me a while ago, as I recall. No, I don't think that's what he was trying to do. It's a judgment call.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm suspicious of the following players:
SpyreX, ZazieR, CoheedCambria09

Reason: I don't like how they are hanging on to a wagon that has lost much of its steam. That stinks of disappointed, lazy scum to me.

In other news, Korts is town. I agree that animo & Coheed should be pushed. I pick Coheed because he persists on the tubby non-wagon.

unvote, vote: CoheedCambria09