Mini 659: The Neighborhood- Game over on Day 6

[Ythill]

I am pretty sure you and Rash are his partners, so I don't think I am going to accomodate you on this one.

Even if Rash and I were scum, unvoting for a few hours doesn't help us.

Give me this much... if wolf or Rash put fhq @ L-1 before I post this evening, consider unvoting before the other one posts. Seriously, I'll be starting my reread in about 9 hours. Is it really too much to ask?

[fhqwhgads]

If it is not too much to ask, I'd like to hear Elias and Crywolf's take on what's happening.

And Rash has gone from VERY vocal to very quiet as well. Can you please also give your take on the situation. If all 3 of you are suddenly missing till deadline, we're screwed.

[gorckat]

Vote Count

(4 to lynch)

fhqswgads (2):

Dead Rikimaru, bionic

Dead Rikimaru:

fhqswgads

Ythill:

Rashiminos

Not voting (3):

crywolf, Elias, Ythill

[crywolf20084]

If it is not too much to ask, I'd like to hear Elias and Crywolf's take on what's happening.

Workin on a post right now.

[crywolf20084]

First off, I am not going to automatically going believe DR, but I must say, that I never once got a bad vibe from Oman. The only thing Oman did that made me worry was not releasing who he had targeted to watch at night.

DR is lying.

The reason I voted crywolf

By the time I voted crywolf I had not finished catching up and I didn't know she had claimed doc.
I just wanted to avoid the no-lynch (see below) and voted the player closer to get lynched.

Sure,

or you were just bussing

, because you thought crywolf would be the inevitable lynch. Or maybe Cry is still telling the truth, and you were on your way to an easy win.

Agree with the bolded statement above to a point. I’m not sure if I’m ready to do a 180 with my opinion on DR.

The reason to avoid a no lynch

Is that in most cases it favors mafia.
If town can't decide between two players and choose a no-lynch mafia will simply kill a player that is not in danger of being lynched. The next day town will have the same doubt about the same players and will have one townie less.
The only time I agreed to a no-lynch it was a 2 townies+1 SK+1 Mafia situation in hopes scum would kill each other.

Actually, I agree with you here. I've been arguing this point since our first no-lynch. Probably your bit of 'looking townie' to add more weight to the BS claim to follow.

I agree with this as well. I would much rather not have a no lynch today as well as the ‘looking townie’ part. Not sure if I buy it yet.

Oman watched

Night 1 - Ythill
Night 2 - crywolf

Last Night, I watched

crywolf again.
I would have preferred to watch Elias, but after using his one shot vig he was like another Vanilla, so I decided to watch the claimed doc again.

Nice backstory. Care to add some flavour Oman got on his results? You know, just to make this story fit better?

This kinda bugs me because you ask for flavor where clearly, right below there is some. I would like to have a more exact wording of the flavor, though.

She was tageted by

fhqwhgads.

The flavor says something about him reading a Nursery tales book to crywolf.

The fact alone that fhqwhgads claimed vanilla is reason enough to vote him, since it's obviously a lie. So:
vote : fhqwhgads

(Bolding mine)
Lies.

Could you please elaborate more on the flavour other than 'something about'?

Dunno about the ‘lie’ part yet. I would love another post from DR to hear more of the flavor.

BTW,

FOS : Ythill

After I said I would not be able to use internet during the weekend (only on Monday at work) you gave me a 24h warning

KNOWING I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO POST

. You, sure is a great candidate for tomorrow's lynch.

Wow, setting up tomorrow's lynch as well. Nice one. But if your plan works, there won't be a lynch tomorrow.

Fine, enough with the rhetoric. Firstly, apologies to Ythill. This has almost cleared you 100% in my books. It also makes me wonder about rash's alignment, but that's an argument for tomorrow (if we have a tomorrow).

First off, I understand why DR’s complaining of Ythill’s vote. Though I wish that DR would’ve used his first couple posts, that were content-less, for something better.

Look, I'm not going to try and give a soppy appeal to anyone not to vote me. You just shouldn't. Because town will lose. Bionic, you are either wrong (or lying).

I've just got this to say. Why wait until now? DR knew we were waiting for his investigation. He even mentioned it, and posted more than once afterwards without saying anything. If I was so obviously guilty, why wait until right before the deadline?

I have been the one complaining about votes in LYLO. I've been the one saying we should vote, rather than no-lynch. My vote is easy.

vote: Dead Rikimaru

. Town's fate is now in the rest of your hands.

It is 00:07 now in my time zone, so I probably won't be here to answer any questions to follow. But do ask, with the deadline extension (thanks mod!) I'll sure have time to answer your concerns. I won't wait until deadline to sow confusion.

I do believe that DR’s timing was kinda poor, and that it could’ve been relayed a lot quicker, BUT I do not believe everything you’ve said. It’s understandable why you have a defensive wall up right now, because whether or not DR is scum, it was one hell of an attack on you.

I have voted you previously, as a good vanilla to lynch, and I am not afraid to vote again, but I will hold off on it until just before I leave for the movies tomorrow. Just so everyone knows, my vote is for fhq.

[fhqwhgads]

Cry,

Uhm, thanks, I think. At least you are posting. Hoping for more positive results from the rest though. Ok, one technical thing:

DR is lying.
Dead Rikimaru wrote:

The reason I voted crywolf
By the time I voted crywolf I had not finished catching up and I didn't know she had claimed doc.
I just wanted to avoid the no-lynch (see below) and voted the player closer to get lynched.


Sure,

or you were just bussing

, because you thought crywolf would be the inevitable lynch. Or maybe Cry is still telling the truth, and you were on your way to an easy win.

Agree with the bolded statement above to a point. I’m not sure if I’m ready to do a 180 with my opinion on DR.

I think you misunderstand what bussing means. I was saying that if you were scum, he was jumping on your wagon to look townie. For you to agree to that is admitting you are scum, which I am sure you did not mean.

All I can implore you is to please consider DR's posts and the amount of time he's had to post what he did. I believe he chose his timing deliberately. Unfortunately, Oman was playing pretty bulletproof, so there's not much I can do to convince you from his posts, other than him also delaying his results without proper reasoning.

[crywolf20084]

Cry,

Uhm, thanks, I think. At least you are posting. Hoping for more positive results from the rest though. Ok, one technical thing:

DR is lying.
Dead Rikimaru wrote:

The reason I voted crywolf
By the time I voted crywolf I had not finished catching up and I didn't know she had claimed doc.
I just wanted to avoid the no-lynch (see below) and voted the player closer to get lynched.


Sure,

or you were just bussing

, because you thought crywolf would be the inevitable lynch. Or maybe Cry is still telling the truth, and you were on your way to an easy win.

Agree with the bolded statement above to a point. I’m not sure if I’m ready to do a 180 with my opinion on DR.

I think you misunderstand what bussing means. I was saying that if you were scum, he was jumping on your wagon to look townie. For you to agree to that is admitting you are scum, which I am sure you did not mean.

No that is not what I meant. Thanks for understanding what I did.

All I can implore you is to please consider DR's posts and the amount of time he's had to post what he did. I believe he chose his timing deliberately. Unfortunately, Oman was playing pretty bulletproof, so there's not much I can do to convince you from his posts, other than him also delaying his results without proper reasoning.

I know that he has had plenty of time to come up with this, and I may go back after I have a bit more time to go back through and do a proper re-read, rather than a quick post while i'm studying, like I did just there.

[crywolf20084]

Edit: Thats for understand what I meant to say

that makes a little bit more sense....

[Rashiminos]

Haven't had the time to post between yesterday afternoon and this moment. This is going to be short post.

I am aware of DR's "info" and the time I have tonight will be spent on reading DR/Oman versus fhq, and comparing to what I have on Ythill, and feel is realistically possible under the circumstances. If that means a vote change tomorrow (seems unlikely atm), then I will tell you then.

[bionicchop2]

OK, all 3 people who could conceivably be a parter if DR was scum have posted since my vote for fhq last night (ythill, rash and cry). None of them have made any attempt to vote for fhq. I have moved from 95% to 99% sure of fhq being scum.

[Ythill]

@ bionic: Your vote is being WIFOM-cemented in place. Did you reread the suspects?

@ wolf: I thought you were convinced that DR was scum. Are you really anxious to believe what he says?

Oman/DR vs. Fhq

User’s Claim

: Oman doesn’t take a stance, though he does attack Tommy and Lowell (both town) for taking stances; he also defends wolf’s fishing. Fhq doesn’t take a stance either, he questions Darox-town’s opinion and attacks wolf for fishing. I think fhq gets the townie brownies here, though I might have caught a minor slip in his #41...

Personally, I think it was a good move (if a bit unconventional)

from your side.

@ fhq: Read the phrase I bolded and tell me what you meant by that.

The Lowell Mislynch

Oman parks a policy vote on Lowell, bringing him to L-1. He then continues to push the lynch even though he admits twice that Lowell is hard to read and later calls wolf scum. Fhq briefly pressures Lowell early on, and returns to vote him twice, intermittently attacking Darox-town (with votes) and wolf (without votes). Both are on the wagon at the end and, on this reread, both are looking pretty dirty to me. Oman ignored evidence to push the policy lynch; fhq jumped back and forth between two townies; both took it easy on scummy wolf.

Lowell (7): Rashiminos, Oman,

TonyMontana

, crywolf,

Tommy

, fhqwhgads,

Darox

Day Two Opening

: Oman plays lightly, posting mostly single sentences; he manages to call several different players town with little or no reasoning, including one who he says has scum-traits (wolf). This is blatant buddying. He parks a vote on Tony-town and then pooh-poohs all other cases. Fhq flounders around a lot without really saying much. Eventually he votes for Darox-town, seemingly because nothing major has happened since D1. Oman gets the scum-points here for the buddying.

The D2 No-lynch

: I don’t think anyone has been arguing that the D2 no-lynch was a good thing, so I’m treating actions that lead to it as scummy. Neither Oman nor Fhq was very active at the end of D2. However, Fhq compromised to put wolf very close to lynch, only jumping off after her claim, whereas Oman stubbornly sat on a two-man townie wagon which, by proxy, became the alternative to Darox when wolf claimed. It is true that Oman did not jump wagons to hammer Darox-town, but it’s also true that he’d pigeon-holed himself into a townie-stance on Darox, meaning that dropping the hammer would have brought him tons of flak the next day. I will not engage in WIFOM but, rather, ignore this double-edged sword. Oman squeaks into the lead on scum points for his stubbornness near deadline.

Darox (5): M4yhem,

TonyMontana

, crywolf, fhqwhgads, Ythill
TonyMontana (5):

Darox

, Oman, Rashiminos,

pickemgenius

, bionic

The Mass-claim

: Both supported popcorn. Oman’s flavor is a little odd (how does a librarian know who was at which house), and he delayed his uneventful results. I see no problems with Fhq’s claim. Also, there is a huge difference in their play after the popcorn. Oman just meanders along, stating that he’d like a ‘nilla lynch but not much else. Meanwhile, Fhq seems to have his curiosity whetted by all of the new information. He quickly agrees with the ‘nilla-lynch plan though he has not claimed a power role. Then he goes on to do some of the most active scumhunting of his game. This all adds up to minor scum-points for Oman and serious townie-brownies for Fhq.

The Second No-lynch

: The wisdom of this no-lynch is in contention, so I will not be considering scummy those actions that caused it. DR replaces in and is lurker-extraordinaire; his MYLO vote on wolf without finishing his reread belies a town alignment. Fhq continues his hunting for a bit, then argues theory about the no-lynch, then argues semantics with me, it strikes me as an inspired townie running out of steam. He hops on and off of bionic twice but is willing to compromise on wolf at the end. This section hands another fat scum-point to DR.

Today

: DR seems more worried about himself than he does about the town. He delays his night-results until just before deadline and then posts game-changing information, just as I guessed he would as scum. Fhq spends a lot of time analyzing the vote possibilities. He attacks bionic and myself but generally seems as if he has given up on the game. Obviously, I’m giving DR another fat scum-point for his gambit.

Conclusion

: Yes, fhq did some scummy things from time to time. In some spots, his treatment of wolf was soft-handed enough to make me wonder. If we hit scum today, I will not entirely rule out an inventive move on DR’s part (fingering one buddy while clearing another, thereby playing for the endgame), but I still doubt that both are scum together. Comparing them, however, Oman/DR is still the obvious choice for today.

Vote: Dead Rikimaru

[bionicchop2]

Ythill - answer this:

What advantage does DR-scum have for framing fhq over framing crywolf (who in my eyes would have been an almost sure-fire lynch if DR was scum and decided to frame her)

[Ythill]

Ythill - answer this:

What advantage does DR-scum have for framing fhq over framing crywolf (who in my eyes would have been an almost sure-fire lynch if DR was scum and decided to frame her)

Wolf is scum.

[crywolf20084]

@ wolf: I thought you were convinced that DR was scum. Are you really anxious to believe what he says?

No, but I was looking at Fhq previously, and DR's claim, though it may be bogus, it just adds to it.

[bionicchop2]

Ythill - answer this:

What advantage does DR-scum have for framing fhq over framing crywolf (who in my eyes would have been an almost sure-fire lynch if DR was scum and decided to frame her)

Wolf is scum.

So your argument is both DR and wolf are scum and we had a town of one-shot vig, tracker, miller and neighbor? Just checking.

[bionicchop2]

@ wolf: I thought you were convinced that DR was scum. Are you really anxious to believe what he says?

No, but I was looking at Fhq previously, and DR's claim, though it may be bogus, it just adds to it.

Ythill has just said the only reason DR-scum would have to frame fhq instead of you is if you are scum. If there is no advantage for him to frame fhq if you are town, then it would seem that crywolf-town could be pretty sure DR-scum does not exist.

[crywolf20084]

It also could be a ploy by DR-scum to point a finger at someone new to get the votes off his back. A set-up that would benifit DR-scum only. Doesn't matter if Fhq is town or not.

[bionicchop2]

It also could be a ploy by DR-scum to point a finger at someone new to get the votes off his back. A set-up that would benifit DR-scum only. Doesn't matter if Fhq is town or not.

Isn't it easier for him to get votes off him and onto you since you were already the alternate lynch?

Also remember that I could have hammered you yesterday and ended the game (if you think I am scum trying to mislead you).

[crywolf20084]

It also could be a ploy by DR-scum to point a finger at someone new to get the votes off his back. A set-up that would benifit DR-scum only. Doesn't matter if Fhq is town or not.

Isn't it easier for him to get votes off him and onto you since you were already the alternate lynch?

Also remember that I could have hammered you yesterday and ended the game

(if you think I am scum trying to mislead you)

.

@the bolded part: no I do not think you are scum trying to mislead me and I know that you could've hammered me yesterday and I am greatful I have not been fully taken advantage of by the scum.

I was just trying to come up with another reason why DR would do soemthing like he did.

[Ythill]

So your argument is both DR and wolf are scum and we had a town of one-shot vig, tracker, miller and neighbor? Just checking.

Sure. Why not?

Ythill has just said the only reason DR-scum would have to frame fhq instead of you is if you are scum.

I never said "only". I am not omniscient. Perhaps there is another reason I didn't think of. But it doesn't matter. I'll eat my hat if wolf is town.

Also remember that I could have hammered you yesterday and ended the game (if you think I am scum trying to mislead you).

That's what WIFOM said. Besides, if you were scum, why would you be trying to mislead your buddy?

[bionicchop2]

OK, so now you are firm in believing scum is DR, myself and wolf, right?

[Ythill]

No, actually. That last bit was a joke (see smiley).

I find it entirely possible that you could be wrong.

[Ythill]

Bionic, look at post #1219. Please answer the "Sure. Why not?"

It wasn't rhetorical.

[bionicchop2]

Bionic, look at post #1219. Please answer the "Sure. Why not?"

It wasn't rhetorical.

There is no why not. I just want to be clear on all of your game thoughts. Flavored games tend to have a more power roles than that IMO, but it is nothing concrete.

I feel like we would have a protective role somewhere.

[Ythill]

Yeah, and I feel like we should have a cop with a miller. This mod is tricky.

The

why not

is important because you're hinging an awful lot on set-up speculation... and basing that speculation on beliefs that you have not expounded upon.