Open 871 - The Haunted Village | Postgame

[Saihara Shuichi]

- 0.75 Saihara

+0.6 Furt

+ 0.2 Oma

+0.05 Nuance

[Wednesday Addams]

Kyoko/Furtive/Kokichi are my townreads

Kaito dropped down a bit, but still lean

PP/Maki still null

Wednesday/Gimli/StD below null but not where I'd vote

Would vote Fuyu/Bianco

How tf do you still have me below null?

[Wednesday Addams]

- 0.75 Saihara

+0.6 Furt

+ 0.2 Oma

What’s this mean exactly?

[Maki Harukawa]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

[Maki Harukawa]

What’s this mean exactly?

Don't worry, I was just making a joke. Guess I'm not that good at it.

[Saihara Shuichi]

I keep flip-flopping on you mostly, don't have a concrete reason for it

[Saihara Shuichi]

What’s this mean exactly?

Don't worry, I was just making a joke. Guess I'm not that good at it.

+1.00 Joke imo

[Saihara Shuichi]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

Why does Kaito vaguely scumread you and why does Kaito always vaguely scumread you

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I'm not entirely sure bianco being undecisive and all over the place is actually "Scum indicative".

I don't see it

@Kokichi, unless the RVS banter is AI for std for some meta reason, which I don't know, that's the only post you may be referring to on page 1.
Now, Fuyuhiko's motivation for their (I presume) non-RVS vote is indeed pretty evident, so not to see it may be a little weird -- so I guess it may just be a very soft pocketing (or a very soft attempt to detract the real vote placed on his undeadbuddy, though frankly I would think doing such a thing, with that intention, barely out of RVS when there's no actual indication that relieving pressure would be necessary, has very little to no benefit and would risk outing one's buddy, so I'd be cautioned to exclude this hypotesys).

Though frankly, idk, it's not like it's so glaring that I'm convinced it's so. If we're looking at pocketing attempts, I'd even say that Gimli's joking about Wednesday is more emotionally significant to the parts involved (though, again, it may just be an interpersonal meta thing, which I wouldn't know about).

I have to things to mention regarding this post.

I don't follow the assumptions about how mentioning "Wednesday" was emotional/pocketing or in any way sus. It just was a non-game-related poke at a great username on first page of a mafia game with no game related content to discuss.

the second thing is that this post is actually filled with assumptions and no conclusions. For example in the first paragraph, you're assuming Kokichi is actually having a reason to sus STD and he is not aiming to find a reaction and make progress which is the point of RVS. Secondly you're assuming that Fuyuhiko's vote was serious. His intentions to vote is not yet clear by any means as we have to wait and see where he is going with that line of thought. secondly, you say voting for them might be a "soft pocketing". Is this based on some previous interaction between those two slots in another game? If not how you concluded that his aggressive reaction and vote is an instance of pocketing? and then you add another hypothesis and say it's to redirect attention. Why would he - assuming he is up for no good - would want to redirect people's attention away from his previous RVS vote on page 1?

All these assumptions, told out loud, don't seem to be coming up from a game-solving perspective. Its more like putting events the way you want them to be for your goal rather than finding that goal. All that being said the way you caught up on these two pages, it looks like shading and for that, I'll put my first FOS on you.

VOTE: biancospino



pedit. And I found my first town read.

What I said here still stands and is also applicable to his later post. it's too much of nothing he is adding and too much of everything at the same time and he doesn't want to focus on directions. Is like how a life guard is watching everyone swimming without jumping in the water.

That action in itself is inherently scum-motivated and I mean it's something you would expect scum to do more often. but in biancospino's case, he seems to be doing it constantly and without fail even after being called out for it that doesn't seem intentional and calculated. It just feels like how he plays the game.

Now again, he did something specifically scummy, however:

VOTE: Kuzu

He was drawing a conclusion from your post that wasn’t really there. I’ll admit I’m saying something similar but mine is more reasoned than his, as I see it he just saw one comment of yours and jumped you for it.

Since you’re currently voting me, why do you even take issue with that? If you really think I’m scum here, you shouldn’t be sussing him for that because that really only makes sense if you think he’s town and I’m scum. Unless I’m missing something about the setup which I actually haven’t paid much attention to thus far, this makes absolutely no sense.

I think it’s scummy that you both think I’m scum and was also being browbeaten and you’re stating that much more strongly than STD did.

Because if you’re town it’s sketchy from Gimli that he’s reacting so harshly to fairly normal posts.
You just also come across as sketchy in your own right. Doesn’t mean I shouldn’t ask other questions.

While I'm not actually in full agreement with Wednesday that it's impossible for one to be both scum and '''browbeaten''' (and multiple quotations are needed here), I'm with her that Kuzu's treatment of the issue has been weird.

It makes to sense to see the browbeating as a reason to see her as scum, and while I appreciate that Kuzu maintains to find Wednesday sus regardless of that, he did make a bigger deal than necessary of it.

Which is weird,

since to me it would appear to incriminate Gimli more than Wednesday

, but the kept arguing about that with her, and keeping his vote on her.

It did paint the picture that Gimli/Wednesday should not be considered TvT

; I don't actually find it convincing, but I suppose it could be setting the stage to link miselims.

I'm gonna bold some stuff there.

Look at the first bold sentence. It comes more likely from an informed point of view as it has phrases like "It makes no sense" "while I appreciate that Kuzu" and "he did make a bigger deal than necessary"

Now why these suggest he has informed point of view? Someone who is figuring things out, would not be analyzing the percentage of something making sense or not cause they should be uncertain of everything. I might be failing in explaining what I mean here but, him appreciating kuzu suggests he actually has an idea what alignment kuzu is and whats his actual objective when he does his stuff and that he is not analyzing the action itself but is judging the action based on his knowledge about kuzu's alignment.

And again on next sentence, he is saying the reason kuzo was using would make more sense if he was using it to push gimli than Wednesday - not that it doesn't make sense to push Wednesday with. so he is rating kuzus push based on his knowledge about kuzus motivation (cause it seems he already knows about it)

"It did paint the picture" and "should not be considered TvT". How is kuzo's push on Wednesday means gimli/wedsnday are not TvT? it means kuzo finds at least one of the pair scummy but it doesn't paints the picture for the entire thread. again he is talking about kuzos objective as he is seeing it through an informed lense.

So I find that post and his jump (with the flow of game against kuzo) extremely sus and opportunistic and I find his positioning when doing this alarming.

That being said I support a wagon on him.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

wouldn't you say you might be the stubborn one if you're not going to consider the reads against those slots? XD

Instead of seizing on one viewpoint, the truth is uncovered by analyzing things from every angle. It's good that we're pushing from different angles. Each person needs to come to their own conclusions so that everyone can have confidence in the outcome.

[Wednesday Addams]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

wouldn't you say you might be the stubborn one if you're not going to consider the reads against those slots? XD

Instead of seizing on one viewpoint, the truth is uncovered by analyzing things from every angle. It's good that we're pushing from different angles. Each person needs to come to their own conclusions so that everyone can have confidence in the outcome.

No because I strongly agree with her. I know you’re wrong on me and I think furtive, Gimli and Maki are town and no good reads trump democracy if it’s incorrect, so I think maybe you’re the one here with tunnel vision because you’re not considering the reasons people who know me are townreading me a helluva lot better than you do.

[Maki Harukawa]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

Why does Kaito vaguely scumread you and why does Kaito always vaguely scumread you

Would you trust an assassin with your life? I know I wouldn't. It's understandable, and expected.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I don't have tunnel vision. I'm pretty open to changing my read on your slot.

Regardless I still think your reaction to being voted was fake in both instances so I'm still voting for you.

Let's give me more reasons to town read you then if you're part of town. Can you write two sentences for each of your reads so we can start from there?

[Maki Harukawa]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

wouldn't you say you might be the stubborn one if you're not going to consider the reads against those slots? XD

Instead of seizing on one viewpoint, the truth is uncovered by analyzing things from every angle. It's good that we're pushing from different angles. Each person needs to come to their own conclusions so that everyone can have confidence in the outcome.

I'm inviting you to prove me wrong, isn't that what you want? I have a strong townread on all the people in question, and if you want me to vote them then tell me why I'm doing so incorrectly. It goes without saying I've looked at every person in two lights.

Everyone has there own viewpoint, but if you let things go down to compromise, having a team of three working together is going to lead to a bad outcome. Unless, you think the main talking points today have been on all wolves? That seems highly unlikely.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

wouldn't you say you might be the stubborn one if you're not going to consider the reads against those slots? XD

Instead of seizing on one viewpoint, the truth is uncovered by analyzing things from every angle. It's good that we're pushing from different angles. Each person needs to come to their own conclusions so that everyone can have confidence in the outcome.

I'm inviting you to prove me wrong, isn't that what you want? I have a strong townread on all the people in question, and if you want me to vote them then tell me why I'm doing so incorrectly. It goes without saying I've looked at every person in two lights.

Everyone has there own viewpoint, but if you let things go down to compromise, having a team of three working together is going to lead to a bad outcome. Unless, you think the main talking points today have been on all wolves? That seems highly unlikely.

Of course, I don't.

I really think the reasons mentioned by people for town reads on Wednesday besides yours which was meta-based are flawed. I can't share your read in this instance as I don't have the meta nor I can verify it.

I'm just saying, I'm open to changing my mind and I wonder if you are too if stronger evidence is presented later that is convicting these people. Just that.

[Maki Harukawa]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

wouldn't you say you might be the stubborn one if you're not going to consider the reads against those slots? XD

Instead of seizing on one viewpoint, the truth is uncovered by analyzing things from every angle. It's good that we're pushing from different angles. Each person needs to come to their own conclusions so that everyone can have confidence in the outcome.

I'm inviting you to prove me wrong, isn't that what you want? I have a strong townread on all the people in question, and if you want me to vote them then tell me why I'm doing so incorrectly. It goes without saying I've looked at every person in two lights.

Everyone has there own viewpoint, but if you let things go down to compromise, having a team of three working together is going to lead to a bad outcome. Unless, you think the main talking points today have been on all wolves? That seems highly unlikely.

Of course, I don't.

I really think the reasons mentioned by people for town reads on Wednesday besides yours which was meta-based are flawed. I can't share your read in this instance as I don't have the meta nor I can verify it.

I'm just saying, I'm open to changing my mind and I wonder if you are too if stronger evidence is presented later that is convicting these people. Just that.

If Wednesday becomes more a wagon, I might go into more detail on my read, but right now I don't really see a reason to do so. Your level of thinking and dissecting a point of view is very methodical. While that has it's own strength, it has glaring downsides as well. Quite frankly, me proving you they're town isn't at the top of my list.

Considering a lot of the main topic for votes is one person we both townread and scumread respectively, that seems like the more pressing topic, wouldn't you agree? Although, I don't know if I should keep talking about Kuzu, it seems like beating a dead horse.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: furtive

Bananas

You should explain this vote methinks. Why is furtive scum?

i said bananas. it's not a naked vote so kokichi can't complain

[Save The Dragons]

UNVOTE:

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

No teamwork or attempt to reach a middle ground, you people are so stubborn. What an annoying mess to deal with, it's like you're not even trying. I'd be pretty shocked if Gimi/Furt/Wed were wolves, if you wish to disprove me of that, it's on you.

wouldn't you say you might be the stubborn one if you're not going to consider the reads against those slots? XD

Instead of seizing on one viewpoint, the truth is uncovered by analyzing things from every angle. It's good that we're pushing from different angles. Each person needs to come to their own conclusions so that everyone can have confidence in the outcome.

I'm inviting you to prove me wrong, isn't that what you want? I have a strong townread on all the people in question, and if you want me to vote them then tell me why I'm doing so incorrectly. It goes without saying I've looked at every person in two lights.

Everyone has there own viewpoint, but if you let things go down to compromise, having a team of three working together is going to lead to a bad outcome. Unless, you think the main talking points today have been on all wolves? That seems highly unlikely.

Of course, I don't.

I really think the reasons mentioned by people for town reads on Wednesday besides yours which was meta-based are flawed. I can't share your read in this instance as I don't have the meta nor I can verify it.

I'm just saying, I'm open to changing my mind and I wonder if you are too if stronger evidence is presented later that is convicting these people. Just that.

If Wednesday becomes more a wagon, I might go into more detail on my read, but right now I don't really see a reason to do so. Your level of thinking and dissecting a point of view is very methodical. While that has it's own strength, it has glaring downsides as well. Quite frankly, me proving you they're town isn't at the top of my list.

Considering a lot of the main topic for votes is one person we both townread and scumread respectively, that seems like the more pressing topic, wouldn't you agree? Although, I don't know if I should keep talking about Kuzu, it seems like beating a dead horse.

That is fair

What do you think about my latest post about biancospino?

[Save The Dragons]

i liked shuichi's case post on bianco but i didn't like his argument with furtive backing it up

[Save The Dragons]

if im using my magic gut it's kyoko

but i dunno it could just be heartburn

[Maki Harukawa]

I'm gonna bold some stuff there.

Look at the first bold sentence. It comes more likely from an informed point of view as it has phrases like "It makes no sense" "while I appreciate that Kuzu" and "he did make a bigger deal than necessary"

Now why these suggest he has informed point of view? Someone who is figuring things out, would not be analyzing the percentage of something making sense or not cause they should be uncertain of everything. I might be failing in explaining what I mean here but,

him appreciating kuzu suggests he actually has an idea what alignment kuzu is and whats his actual objective when he does his stuff and that he is not analyzing the action itself but is judging the action based on his knowledge about kuzu's alignment.

And again on next sentence, he is saying the reason kuzo was using would make more sense if he was using it to push gimli than Wednesday - not that it doesn't make sense to push Wednesday with. so he is rating kuzus push based on his knowledge about kuzus motivation (cause it seems he already knows about it)

"It did paint the picture" and "should not be considered TvT". How is kuzo's push on Wednesday means gimli/wedsnday are not TvT? it means kuzo finds at least one of the pair scummy but it doesn't paints the picture for the entire thread. again he is talking about kuzos objective as he is seeing it through an informed lense.

So I find that post and his jump (with the flow of game against kuzo) extremely sus and opportunistic and I find his positioning when doing this alarming.

I assume you mean this. For me, the reason your post doesn't make me jump and call the slot scum doesn't even have anything to do with the fact I have bianco as a slight townread, it's more I don't see the part of this that is so damning, and maybe that's on me. Let me expalin.

To fit the worldview that you're presenting here, bianco is a wolf that knows Kuzu is a villager, but given how bianco, has played this game so far I don't see why the posts in question has such shock value.

The blue for example, is hard to fully get because trying to differentiate, talking to someone you wolfread as if they're a villager (a common thing people wolfread that is outright not wolfy) and them being informed is two different things.

The next point, pushing on Kuzu's motives, right? I feel like he's been pretty blatant on his motives and what they are. So I can see where that is coming from on both sides, it's a sound answer from bianco but it's NAI. I think the most questionable part you can really talk about, is the angle they're taking to vote kuzu and finding a reason to do so when they're the next biggest wagon, but that hasn't even come up in conversation.

Sure, it is briefly touched on in the last sentence, but it feels like you're putting a lot of stock value into one angle when the second angle can easily be explained away. And the first angle would require a pretty detailed level of thought and skill to execute, to reach a not so flattering result.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Alright, guess you don't see it the same way. But I really think with like 60% confidence that the way he phrased things carefully, suggests he actually knows Kuzu's alignment and his intentions/or him not having one.

It seems he wants to agree with him, yet vote with him blaming he is "painting a TvT as a pair with scum", yet he should not have any idea it is a TvT in the first place.

I honestly think it's potentially a mindset slip and inconsistency.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

if im using my magic gut it's kyoko

but i dunno it could just be heartburn

It's fine if you scum-read me as long as you present arguments that we can work with to sort your slot and mine in the process.

[Maki Harukawa]

Perhaps, maybe I just expect better when I should be thinking of the basics. I wouldn't kick and scream if the slot went over, so you won't hear me complain. It'd certainly open a few angles I haven't seen.

So, carry on.