Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Shirou]

from my partners.

lol

my head is too fuzzy atm

i wonder if anyone will treat this as a "slip"

[Save The Dragons]

shirou said his partners

scum confirmed

[Toto]

Just want to quickly point out Im town regardless of tgp alignment, according to the mod.

[fireisredsir]

I think flipping TGP today to sort Klick isn't a bad idea. Klick was the first slot to proactively town lean/try to "protect" TGP when everyone suspected them and one of the facts of this setup is that historically, scum has often bussed to disassociate. It even has a name ("White Flag Gambit") and was first used by the founder of this site (Mith! Random thank you for creating this site!).

If TGP is scum:

I believe if TGP and Klick were partners, Klick wouldn't give such a confident town read/defense of TGP as he's going down, it's not gonna look good after the flip. Therefore I believe that Klick/TGP aren't partnered, the defense seems too open and straightforward to come from my partners.

ok given that you did actually know this and hold this opinion,

can we go back to discussing why you thought it was ridiculous for toto to think that you could be bussing TGP and you have continued to discredit and dismiss him solely based on the fact that he suspects both of you

[Shirou]

Like I don’t get the mindset.
Maybe you just have an inflated ego and are confbiased I just don’t see how it works other wise.

I want to reply on this before going into Gimli/Furtive.

I probably am kinda "confbiased" by this point because I've a good history of knowing more or less how to read Norwee. Could I get it wrong eventually? Can I be wrong right now?

YES

. But mafia is a guessing game and right now all that I know about him points to him being town in this game.

It's true I'm trying to "hide" a bit some of the reasons and not going for ultra breakdown of every little thing I think is from his town meta/playstyle, I don't want to reveal everything about how I read him because then he could fake it all next time, I don't want that because it's pleasant to feel like you've a friend that you can read, it makes the game more fun when I feel at ease trusting him because I trust my methods on reading him so far.

I'll admit, in fact, that although I'm advocating quite a bit for town!Norwee here, he

hasn't

been

very

townie outside of his reaction to my push, but I still think the way he reacted to the push isn't from scum!him and there's some good posts like I pointed out there and here in his ISO. You can disagree, that's fine Toto,

maybe I'm wrong

, but I've no choice but to trust my guns because they've kinda worked so far with him. I'm pushing it confidently because I believe preventing a miselimination on him is very positive for our odds of winning this game and that's it.

I've not been too wrong on him so far (there's a game I suspected him but never confident enough to lim him because there was always "scummier" slots in my vision), but this could be it. My next game could be it. I don't feel like I've properly "failed" on him yet by completely inversely reading his alignment but I could. I'm not infallible.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong? I don't think I'm, but I could be.

One of the best town players in this site that destroyed scum teams in D1 has his left post in the site as a pun that in the very end, he thinks there's quite a bit of

luck

involved in mafia. I agree there's definitely games that even people that know me probably would suspect me because I was playing a bit differently for whatever reason. Mafia is hard, we can only often guess.

I'm guessing Norwee is town here. I've historically good guesses on him I believe. I could still be wrong though I guess.

That's it Toto.

It's hard to be sure of anything in this game but I try to push to the best of my abilities what I think is the correct answer.

[Shirou]

I just got out of a small phase of doubting my read on him there some posts ago. I tried to reconsider and ended up with the conclusion I think he's still town here.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong on Norwee, or who scum is, or on anything in this game. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

[Shirou]

I think flipping TGP today to sort Klick isn't a bad idea. Klick was the first slot to proactively town lean/try to "protect" TGP when everyone suspected them and one of the facts of this setup is that historically, scum has often bussed to disassociate. It even has a name ("White Flag Gambit") and was first used by the founder of this site (Mith! Random thank you for creating this site!).

If TGP is scum:

I believe if TGP and Klick were partners, Klick wouldn't give such a confident town read/defense of TGP as he's going down, it's not gonna look good after the flip. Therefore I believe that Klick/TGP aren't partnered, the defense seems too open and straightforward to come from my partners.

ok given that you did actually know this and hold this opinion,

can we go back to discussing why you thought it was ridiculous for toto to think that you could be bussing TGP and you have continued to discredit and dismiss him solely based on the fact that he suspects both of you

Partially because I'm petty and feel like the TGP wagon is partially mine because it was me that kept pushing him and making him post scummy stuff. We may not be wagoning TGP right now if it wasn't for me vs him in Day 1, so to be suspected along with the person you've contributed the most to be suspected, it's a bit unnerving.

Secondly though, because Ari said in this same game something I find very correct, something along the lines of "scum doesn't often chooses the direction of the bus" or so. Can't remember her exact words, but what she basically meant is that scum often isn't the pioneer behind a scum elimination, they often only voice suspicious/weak pushes without truly screaming for their partner death at the start, or start to push them

after

other people are pushing their buddy. It's not often that scum straight up create the wagon on their partner and are so responsible for their death because they want the credit but not to make it too harder for themselves/their buddies.

I've began to poke Klick lately but it's because I think it's one of the slots where I want to look at next depending on the flip and most people had already started to see the issue with TGP. Me constantly pushing TGP here at this point would be a bit of an overkill and I'm starting to think he has some decent odds of being town just for the weird town reads on him by some people as I've commented.

Individually

he's

very very scummy

though.

[fireisredsir]

You know, this is a more effective scum tactic than I initially thought. Killing town motivation to solve the game, that is.

wouldn't that be funny if this was actually a scumslip and everyone just ignored it

context makes it pretty believable since people were discussing how there was too much thread noise to really solve anything but still

it would be funny

[Gimli]

My reasons for voting TGP have nothing to do with whatever happened D1 between him and shirou, and I think I was the second vote after... STD? Either way this wagon wasn't formed because of shirou and given his current posting it's still happening despite of him

[Gimli]

Just so you won't beat yourself up too much if tgp flips town, shirou

[Toto]

You know posts like that Gimly require so much confidence Shurro is town that I cant imagine myself making. Maybe its a playstyle thing but I feel the “empathy” is too strong and lacks paranoia to be coming from town.

[Save The Dragons]

can we do gimli? i'm willing to do gimli

[Gimli]

Okay

[Gimli]

That was okay to toto but if you wanna CFD me that's fine

[Save The Dragons]

i dunno what cfd means

[fireisredsir]

an outdated term for a late in the day sudden wagon

[Save The Dragons]

what does it stand for

[Gimli]

Chinese fried drill

Eh it's an old kinda ew term but it means making a counterwagon out of nowhere and eliminating them

[Save The Dragons]

oh

yeah probably shouldn't be using that term

[Gimli]

I've given what I could in this gamethread

[Save The Dragons]

i also wouldn't say it's out of nowhere

[fireisredsir]

i don't have any interest in limming anyone besides tgp until he backs up why he has the level of confidence that he says he has on me. or like. does anything

his last venture into the thread ignored everything of relevance including multiple questions directed at him

[Toto]

The rational side of me agrees with fire. My irrational side is very tempted to Lolbrutallymurder gimly.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: gimli

WHO'S WITH ME

[Shirou]

Just so you won't beat yourself up too much if tgp flips town, shirou

i'm literally saying there's good odds of tgp flipping town because of other slots you always feels so snarky about me

and you voted tgp because there was already a wagon there and there was a wagon on tgp because i created a wagon on it in D1 by 1v1'ing him and it ended up with him scumposting

do i sound egoistical? probably hell yeah sorry?

am i objectively wrong? i don't think so??

how is it wrong to say i created the foundation of the tgp wagon