Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[Toto]

Uhh that was low blow.

Yeah that’s not how mislim math works. You got a fixed number now matter if we lim scum (unless we get more nk)

Pedit we risk losing anytime there is scum outside of you three.

[Toto]

At some point I was worried Math was softing JOAT.

so yeah,

So we have an informed macho IC
an infinite shot ninja doctor
a many shot jail keeper informed that I'm macho.
a presumably infinite shot ascetic watcher
a 1-shot-almost-cop

Either way it's interesting none of these gain anything or are encouraged to target me on N1, which is at least consistent.

But also seems like we are one Ironman short of the avengers. But maybe I'm making too big of a deal here.

kitty has to be town due to the ninja thing, right? *looks nervously at datisi*

scum Math means = scum NKed on N1, Math tried to shoot but got JKed on N2, Math + X decided to NK on N3 or Math+Skitter is a thing where Math is a roleblocker who roleblocked Ydra.

Fire scum means = they shot at IV on N1, they decided to NK on n2 and not kill to get town cred? or to make fun of Math, maybe, Fire+X decided to NK on n3 or Fire+Skitter where they roleblocked Ydra.

Ydra scum means = scum shot at IV on N1, they shot at Math on N2, they decided to nk on N3, presumably to frame someone. What doesn't add up is declaring Skitter scum. But maybe the simple solution is ydra+skitter and we are complicating all this.

Occam's razor says Ydra is scum.

JK + doctor + watcher + IC is sort of still OP but maybe ok given IC and watcher are not protectable.

[Toto]

Anyone townreading Ydra?

[Toto]

IV u scum?

[Toto]

But why were you annoyed. Why not turn that anger an become and unreasonable town mofo and scream at how bad we are to lim you?

I’m your father.

[Toto]

Meh.

Hard to play good town w/o emotions imo.

I don’t want to lim another Gera.

[Toto]

Hey IV.

On a side note. Since you are here. Let me know if you can chat a bit. I’m a bit worried about you being so level headed. I can see the effort in you questioning people and reason with them. But feels a bit informed? Like you are really good at seeing the other persons pov. That’s why I’m worried about you.

[Toto]

Anyone thinks it is possible/likely all three scum were on the Gera wagon?

geraintm [7]: Scoliosis, Toto

, Freedom, Herta, innocentvillager, Val89,

PookyTheMagicalBear

[HAMMER]
Scoliosis [4]: KittyTacky, Firebringer, MathBlade, Ydrasse
Herta [1]: geraintm
unwnd [1]: skitter30
not voting [0]:

If not at least one scum in {Kitty, Firebringer, MathBlade, Ydrasse, Skitter}.

It's funny the answer is almost the equivalent to are all PR claims true?

[Toto]

Why are you townreading all of:me, herta, freedom, and unwnd

you just feel pretty townie to me

like peta says you're just kind of an easy read

the way I read you is mostly looking at your posts - comparing to thread and seeing if you're keeping up and generally how much you want to be here. if you feel like you want to be here/engage I slot you as town. You have issues keeping up with the thread this starts looking worse. Granted this isn't the fastest moving game so its not like foolproof way to slot you rn it still feels to me like you are engaged in the game and actually enjoying playing. I know I am biased because your last two scum games you kind of flaked out and those were larges moving at p fast speed but I think this is closer to how you looked in the coalition run than either of those scum games.

herta is very stilted as mafia, he doesn't really flow into the thread, it's like the guy at the party who has a drink in his hand but isn't involved in any of the conversations.

freedom is town because when he's scum, his questions are agenda-y and you can sort of see where he's trying to push something - here he's just kind of asking random things and popping in to say things.

unwnd is town because his play is completely perpendicular to his scum play - it is unstructured and freeflowing in a way that I don't think he really enjoys doing in general and especially as scum because chaos is the enemy of making plans.

Are these all town?

Funny Skitter is doing what pooky says scum!skitter does.

[Toto]

I just completed a game w/ herta where he was town and was very similar stuff to what he is doing here. Could he be replicating, maybe? I've seem some of his scum games and he is a bit more agenda-y/wolfish. I think. But I honestly don't think I can read herta tbh.

[Toto]

I have no strong reasons meta wise to believe he is scum, lets put it that way.

In the pooky-skitter-herta interaction, skitter looks like a more likely partner, imo.

[Toto]

Complexity is defined by the following collection of characteristics. The more of them that a game has, the more likely it should be labeled complex rather than simple. The reverse is true as well: the fewer of these are applicable, the more likely the setup ought to be labeled as simple rather than complex.

Having several roles with modifiers, especially modifiers that affect targeting (e.g. simple,

loyal

) or fundamentally affect the way one would play the role (e.g. announcing, weak)
Having some roles with several modifiers

Having a large proportion of non-vanilla roles in general

Having anything that could be construed as a

red herring

(e.g., two of the same town role, a backup or enabler without a main role, a neighborhood with only mafia, a miller without a cop, etc.)

Having complicated interactions between roles (e.g. multiple blocking roles that may affect each other, generally anything that might make a reviewer need to think twice about how it would work)

Having many roles that aren't seen as frequently in normal games
Anything else that would potentially defy the expectations of a player who's played normal games before

We check a lot of those boxes for sure.

am I a red-herring? >.<

[Toto]

Where did you get that definition?

~

this setup is publicly rated as complex. you can read about what that means here.

[Toto]

Ydra town then?

[Toto]

So we start by limming Val, say he flips green, say toto dies.
then we lim herta, say he flips green and kt dies.
then we lim freedom, flips green, they shoot IV.

we are down to {Skitter, Ydra, Math, Fire}

2v2. scum wins. It was skitter/Ydra, or It was skitter/math, or it was math/ydra, etc, etc.

Fuck this

VOTE: Val

[Toto]

Can somebody give me a TLDR?

We don't know who is scum

[Toto]

Can somebody give me a TLDR?

We don't know who is scum

But with a few hours left your slot may be yeeted.

IV no longer TR you and thinks you are the best option for today. Ydra thinks you are the least town. Herta thinks you are a hero shot. Skitter no longer TR you.

[Toto]

@KT Tell me more on why Val is town?

@Math how does Freedom feel this game compared to his scum game? Has anyone played with town freedom?

Also, I still think that it could easily be Ydra+Skitter.

Ydra had been softing watcher ("

stares

at you until you understand"). She even softed it at IV, implying they knew they were visited by the doctor. Maybe just a coincidence?

My guess what happened if this is true is that Ydra+Skitter had to toss a coin on who does the killing since Fire had expressed suspicion on both slots the prior day. They chose wrong.

Ydra+Skitter were put in a tough place because if skitter is dead she had already softed a PR so probably would not make it alone to the end game. The gambit makes sense to try to save Skitter. Basically w/o Ydra's claim Skitter would be limmed already. And next day we would be asking Ydra to claim.

[Toto]

Not sure how they’d know given I am a ninja

They'd know who they shot and that they are not dead.

[Toto]

Id also be fine with skitter.
Like we have a soft gulity and they are still scummy by play.

If this was a scum gambit they wasted it on skitter… and I feel a skitter green flip would give us some
perspective on ydra and herta.

And finally they are both town why arent scum val/herta/freedom pushing for their heads?

[Toto]

So yeah I think i’d rather end the day on ydra or skitter

IV wdyt?

[Toto]

VOTE: ydra

[Toto]

Nah its ydra+skit IV. Lets do it

[Toto]

Val vote with me. Sorry I called you nitpicker

[Toto]

Ydra mechanically doesn’t make sense. If she gets a guilty on n1 it is game over for
scum.

[Toto]

vca sayd it is ydra too

[Toto]

You get a guilty+ You cant get killed because protectives+watcher sees one of them

[Toto]

I think you are just scum and feel bad to insult me. It's ok. "just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART"

[Toto]

K thanks for the info, we'll keep that in mind. next time l2p and play your PR better if you are town.

[Toto]

lol nice comeback.

[Toto]

vca sayd it is ydra too

Ok y?

Can you pls sell me more on ydr

Not voted Gera on D1 - no rush to kill Gera so makes sense for other scum to be out of wagon.
Voted Enchant on D2 - rush to kill Enchant because alternative wagon is pooky. This is despite fosing Herta for fosing Enchant while remaining on wagon.

Not voted pooky on D3.

[Toto]

i would be fucking screaming crying throwing up if i was playing so bad they didn’t wanna kill me

weren't you trying to draw a night kill as a 1-shot cop. lmao.

[Toto]

uuhh there's the ate.

[Toto]

What about not playing or scumhunting

Also what do you mean by blocking ate

[Toto]

I think Ydrasse ragey response could be town but maybe bait was too obvious

[Toto]

IV wanna do skitter instead?

[Toto]

Why removes the ascetic / rolestopped skitter question Mark

[Toto]

And if town ydra likely town too.

[Toto]

Do you have reservations about skitter or something?

[Toto]

Freedom is a null read for me I'll do it if there is no other scummier option.

[Toto]

Why did you do this?

This felt like a towntell but maybe being naive. This happened very close in time to my other game with freedom where town self hammered.

[Toto]

The other thing that gave me some pause is freedom claimed first and pretty fast today. Unless his partner is in the PRs or didnt think about getting mech locked

[Toto]

IV who is freedom partner? Is it Herta? I thought you townread herta. If not herta, whats your solve here?

[Toto]

I'm on vacation until New Years.

[Toto]

I thought you liked to sweet talk people into claiming scum

[Toto]

How convinced are you % wise on scum for

Skitter, Ydra, Herta, Val, Freedom

Thats my lim pool.

[Toto]

or just stack rank them, scum to town.

[Toto]

outrageously scummy but skitter

Can you remind me what outrageously scummy things skitter did

[Toto]

Damn Val is a tempting possibility.

[Toto]

@Val, all I have been saying is we can't afford to mis-lim the three of you, so you suggeting to line up lims 1) pisses me off because I don't like the logic 2) pisses me off because feels like you are lining up mislims.

@IV yeah second part of the theory works without the watcher, so could have been a red herring, easy for Ydra to refute. You think her ate-y stuff was fake?

[Toto]

*counts ten breaths*

Sigh,

The hypothetical scum val scenario I’m thinking is where your partner is say firebringer or math, or
Someone that would be hard to catch in an elo situation.

Also can you just like do the math and show me how we don’t lose to skitter+ydra.

[Toto]

Freedom. What’s on your mind? Can you give a readlist. I’m thinking about voting you.

[Toto]

I dont think I make elo despite being a super bad IC which apparently means my reads are supposed to be perfect despite being on the wrong wagon once.

[Toto]

The game where everyone wants to die

[Toto]

Why are you voting herta again?

[Toto]

fine give me 30mins to make up my mind.

[Toto]

Let's chop Ydra. I'm not 100% sure but that's what seems most logical to me at this point.

[Toto]

Its the vts + you/ydra who never die this game

[Toto]

UNVOTE:

Gimme a sec

[Toto]

That freedom vote was p bad

[Toto]

Freedom any other thoughts on the game. Who is town, who is scum. If we flip you what should we do tomorrow?

[Toto]

Fuck this game

VOTE: freedom

[Toto]

Can you please kill me tonite.
Lmao

[Toto]

Thats a lim

[Toto]

Freedom u town?

[Toto]

Fingers crossed

[Toto]

You wanna say who you are watching?

[Toto]

Maybe bad idea

[Toto]

K sorry we limmed you

[Toto]

No pick me

[Toto]

I see a light

[Toto]

Nice nice. Those were some good shots Firebringer. Thanks for carrying town.

[Toto]

Yeah agreed town was a bit too op. Specially the super
Macho unkillable IC. Why no one is mentioning that?

[Toto]

Skitter mafia nsg tell

[Toto]

I don't think that was a trust tell fwiw. Pooky felt like it because he was tmid most likely.

Also agree this was an enjoyable game and playerlist, and I liked the creative mechanics despite the swinginess. Giving the IC something to do was pretty good way to make the Ic role enjoyable fwiw.

I think removing the doctor could be enough to make it balanced in future variations.

[Toto]

Yeah I should have trusted my gut and push to not lim you on D1 in the end. Fwiw I think pooky hammer made him look bad so your sacrifice was worth it!